Matt Boiardi
New Member
I recently picked up a 65 300 factory 4-speed car. I've tried to find the production numbers but everything is for an L. Does anyone know how many non letter 4 speeds were built in 65.
65 300 4-Speed Non Letter Production Numbers.
- Thread starter Matt Boiardi
- Start date
Here's some generalities of that era in time. ONE thing is that Chrysler's TorqueFlite automatic was acknowledged to have drag strip performance which would beat or give a similar 4-speed car (with a driver who knew how to shift it quickly) a good run for their money, if not beat it on a drag strip. Yep, they were that good! Combine that with the "upscale luxury" orientation of the Chrysler line of vehicles, compared to the lower-level Plymouths and Dodges, and THAT meant that not very many buyers OR dealers would opt for any manual transmission car on their lots . . . unless it was special ordered and paid for first.
As the TorqueFlite was positive and quick-shifting, compared to any other automatic of the time, that allowed Chrysler to delay getting into the 4-speed frenzy of the earlier 1960s as long as they did. Stock Automatic classes at the drag strips were usually Chrysler Corp vehicle dominated. As Chevy had the manual transmission classes.
As Chrysler Corp was already building 3-speed manual C-bodies in Plymouth Fury I and Dodge Polara cars, plus the BASE Chrysler Newport, all of the infrastructure for a 4-spd 300 already existed, just make the arrangements in the assy plant to do them. Plus putting the necessary shifter and related B/RB parts in assy plant inventory.
As prestigious as a factory 4-spd car might be, when they were new, it was acknowledged that the Chrysler 4-spd did not shift as easily and quickly as the similar GM or Borg-Warner 4-spds of back then. Which meant that in a full-bore drag race, it would take more muscle to shift them quickly, which was not seen as a good thing to have, no matter if the Chrysler 4-spds were strong enough for a 426HEMI in front of them.
So . . . any 4-spd 300 would have been ordered by a customer who liked the feel of a manual transmission, but wanted a 4-spd rather than a 3-spd. In a market where an upscale brand car (as a Chrysler was back then) was expected to have the excellent TorqueFlite instead (new OR used). A manual transmission Chrysler of any kind would be a "slow mover" on any used car lot, even with a lower price, just as a non-factory a/c car would be in the Southwest USA would be. It would be the "rare find" for a manual transmission lover, though.
Similar things existed in the upper-level GM brands, Oldsmobile and Buick. Factory 4-spds were on the option list, but seldom ordered. For most of the same reasons. Registries exist for those cars, none of which usually got to 1000 units/model year. 3-spd manual transmissions existed in the base models (for "low price" advertising by dealers), plus a lot of the infrastructure was there for Chevy and Pontiac big cars already. So, just a matter of making things happen in the assy plants.
On the Ford side of things, like Chevrolets, they had no really good automatics in the pre-C6 days of 1966, so many more 4-speeds in their cars of any size. Manual transmission Mercurys were there as standard equipment. Any performance-oriented engine usually had a 4-speed option. Bucket seats in the sportier models, normally. So the stage was set for a '62 Mercury Monterey 4-dr hardtop, 406 3x2bbl V-8, with a factory 4-speed behind it.
On the Chevy side of things, the choices for a "performance" car were more distinct. Either a 2-speed PowerGlide or a factory 4-speed, over the base 3-spd manual transmissions. In MANY model years, the 3-spd manual had shifting durability issues when used for anything rougher than normal driving activities. So, LOTS more factory 4-speed Impalas with factory a/c, as a result. The THM400 automatic appeared mid-year 1965, so GM then had a 3-speed automatic which was similar to the Chrysler TorqueFlite. Followed by Ford in 1966 model year (the first in-house automatic by Ford).
Getting back to the "numbers" issue . . . it was much easier for a dealer to sell a 4-spd Road Runner or Super Bee rather than a 4-spd Chrysler. OR even a 3-spd manual Newport. Check the earlier thread on production numbers for a 3-spd manual '63 or '64 Newport for reference. I kind of suspect the installation rates of a 4-spd Chrysler would be lower than those of a 3-spd Newport, in the end. But I might be wrong. I also suspect that the production numbers of ANY ONE C-body Chrysler convertible product would be much more than a 4-spd car, by comparison.
In modern times, considering the market forces at play when the car was new, ANY 4-spd C-body from the factory would be a very low-production vehicle, period. Cherish and enjoy it for what it is, but don't expect it to give better drag strip performance than a good TorqueFlite on the drag strip. DO learn how to drive it for best results, though!
Sorry for the length. Take care.
CBODY67
As the TorqueFlite was positive and quick-shifting, compared to any other automatic of the time, that allowed Chrysler to delay getting into the 4-speed frenzy of the earlier 1960s as long as they did. Stock Automatic classes at the drag strips were usually Chrysler Corp vehicle dominated. As Chevy had the manual transmission classes.
As Chrysler Corp was already building 3-speed manual C-bodies in Plymouth Fury I and Dodge Polara cars, plus the BASE Chrysler Newport, all of the infrastructure for a 4-spd 300 already existed, just make the arrangements in the assy plant to do them. Plus putting the necessary shifter and related B/RB parts in assy plant inventory.
As prestigious as a factory 4-spd car might be, when they were new, it was acknowledged that the Chrysler 4-spd did not shift as easily and quickly as the similar GM or Borg-Warner 4-spds of back then. Which meant that in a full-bore drag race, it would take more muscle to shift them quickly, which was not seen as a good thing to have, no matter if the Chrysler 4-spds were strong enough for a 426HEMI in front of them.
So . . . any 4-spd 300 would have been ordered by a customer who liked the feel of a manual transmission, but wanted a 4-spd rather than a 3-spd. In a market where an upscale brand car (as a Chrysler was back then) was expected to have the excellent TorqueFlite instead (new OR used). A manual transmission Chrysler of any kind would be a "slow mover" on any used car lot, even with a lower price, just as a non-factory a/c car would be in the Southwest USA would be. It would be the "rare find" for a manual transmission lover, though.
Similar things existed in the upper-level GM brands, Oldsmobile and Buick. Factory 4-spds were on the option list, but seldom ordered. For most of the same reasons. Registries exist for those cars, none of which usually got to 1000 units/model year. 3-spd manual transmissions existed in the base models (for "low price" advertising by dealers), plus a lot of the infrastructure was there for Chevy and Pontiac big cars already. So, just a matter of making things happen in the assy plants.
On the Ford side of things, like Chevrolets, they had no really good automatics in the pre-C6 days of 1966, so many more 4-speeds in their cars of any size. Manual transmission Mercurys were there as standard equipment. Any performance-oriented engine usually had a 4-speed option. Bucket seats in the sportier models, normally. So the stage was set for a '62 Mercury Monterey 4-dr hardtop, 406 3x2bbl V-8, with a factory 4-speed behind it.
On the Chevy side of things, the choices for a "performance" car were more distinct. Either a 2-speed PowerGlide or a factory 4-speed, over the base 3-spd manual transmissions. In MANY model years, the 3-spd manual had shifting durability issues when used for anything rougher than normal driving activities. So, LOTS more factory 4-speed Impalas with factory a/c, as a result. The THM400 automatic appeared mid-year 1965, so GM then had a 3-speed automatic which was similar to the Chrysler TorqueFlite. Followed by Ford in 1966 model year (the first in-house automatic by Ford).
Getting back to the "numbers" issue . . . it was much easier for a dealer to sell a 4-spd Road Runner or Super Bee rather than a 4-spd Chrysler. OR even a 3-spd manual Newport. Check the earlier thread on production numbers for a 3-spd manual '63 or '64 Newport for reference. I kind of suspect the installation rates of a 4-spd Chrysler would be lower than those of a 3-spd Newport, in the end. But I might be wrong. I also suspect that the production numbers of ANY ONE C-body Chrysler convertible product would be much more than a 4-spd car, by comparison.
In modern times, considering the market forces at play when the car was new, ANY 4-spd C-body from the factory would be a very low-production vehicle, period. Cherish and enjoy it for what it is, but don't expect it to give better drag strip performance than a good TorqueFlite on the drag strip. DO learn how to drive it for best results, though!
Sorry for the length. Take care.
CBODY67
Last edited:
Matt Boiardi
New Member
That's pretty interesting. Thanks
xxcarguy
Well-Known Member
More pics please!
Matt Boiardi
New Member
xxcarguy
Well-Known Member
That’s great!
Runs, drives?
Rust?
Looks clean.
Nice find!
Runs, drives?
Rust?
Looks clean.
Nice find!
cbarge
World Famous Barge in a Budget
383??? 413???
Any row-yer-own Boat is very rare.
Production gumbers Possibly did not reach triple digits.
Any production figures are hard to find for C's vs A/B/E cars.
Stellantis does have a historical office that may help.
Depending on which plant she was built, some IBM cards have survived.
But majority of records are lost through time.
Build Card received from Stellantis today :)
Any row-yer-own Boat is very rare.
Production gumbers Possibly did not reach triple digits.
Any production figures are hard to find for C's vs A/B/E cars.
Stellantis does have a historical office that may help.
Depending on which plant she was built, some IBM cards have survived.
But majority of records are lost through time.
Build Card received from Stellantis today :)
Matt Boiardi
New Member
Runs great. Needs a gas tank so I have it running off a can right now. It also needs a little brake work. The car is mostly rust free except the drivers rear floor. Overall the car is in great shape.
Matt Boiardi
New Member
wyrmrider
Member
Our 62 413 Max wedge was delivered as a 3 speed which we replaced with the BW 4 speed from a 383 car BW 4 speed could not take the RB torque or even the 383 with good tires
we switched to the TF The dealer was getting heat over all the warranties as he was doing the paperwork on the 383 car. Later we switched to the MOPAR 4 speed but since our driver was not Ronnie Sox we switched back to the TF Our Torque Flytes were built by Mr Shift himself Gil Younger at TRANSCO
Other than purpose-built 4-spd HydraMatics, the Chrysler TorqueFlite was more durable than other automatics of the time, but really came into its element on the drag race tracks after the 1962 aluminum case versions were introduced in about 1962 or 1963. Quicker shifting than the bulk of 4-speed car drivers. Just had to watch the tach and "Push that button".
Enjoy!
CBODY67
Enjoy!
CBODY67
68 4spd Fury
Senior Member
I agree with CBODY67 on his assessment. In the early 60's four speeds in general were new thing, popularized in song and such. I notice they did fade out on full size cars after a bit. Hence, in C bodies anyway, while don't have production numbers it seems there are more four speeds in 65 models, declining through the 68 MY. As far as I know, they weren't an option in the 69 and up.
300George
Member
My 4spd L is certainly not the best driver! Tall gearing, heavy and why oh why did they choose the 10.5" clutch! 4spd C bodies are about as rare as it gets though.
Verse
Active Member
The three speed was standard in the 300 also.
By the "Slab Years", a 3-speed had been relegated to "base model" cars as 4-speeds were "the thing". Only very budget-minded people shopped for a luxury or sporty brand with ANY kind of manual transmission. If a dealer had advertised a Chrysler without a TF, it was only for loss-leader bare bottom pricing. Then, the "Get a FREE Automatic Transmission" promotions happened in the 1967-era of things. With the "Get FREE Air Conditioning" coming a year later. Made for some good TV advertising, as Dodge had their many "White Hat Specials" during that sema time.
Those were THE days!
CBODY67
Those were THE days!
CBODY67
SportFuryman
Member
I Googled it for my car and found the numbers one time but don’t remember where I found the stats. That is one absolutely GORGEOUS Chrysler!!! Very tough looking!
SportFuryman
Member
I agree on the clutch. Not at all pleasurable to hold on an incline lol.
Torky
Member
That looks like a fun car to drive. I can't help with the split of 4-speed stick vs. TorqueFlite tranny's, but the www.chrysler300clubinc.com roster shows the split of all '65 300's: 300L Coupes: 2,405; 300L conv.: 440; Total 300L: 2,845; 300 coupes: 11,621; 300 conv.: 1,418; 300 4DHT: 12,452; 300 4DS: 2,187; Total 300: 27,678. I am in the process of testing my combo '60-'66 Fender & VIN tag decoder and would like a shot at your car's tags. I will decode your tags at no charge, ever, and prepare a report similar to the one below. The final six characters of the VIN are not critical but are part of the report. The first four characters of the VIN are probably C253. Have you looked for a Production Broadcast sheet? Often found tucked in behind the springs of the rear seat upright cushion. It would tell more about your car than the fender & VIN tags.
cbarge
World Famous Barge in a Budget
Note the 4 door sedans were built and sold only in Canada.
fury fan
Old Man with a Hat
Can you give us a pic of the fendertag on this one?
It looks like a really nice car.
Although anything's possible, I would've thought that a 4-speed would've come with a console in a Chrysler.
Plymouths, sure - Fury IIIs usually have no console if they are a 4-speed. And they are usually a bench seat.
This would be the 1st buddy-seat, 4-speed, no console car I can recall seeing.
It looks like a really nice car.
Although anything's possible, I would've thought that a 4-speed would've come with a console in a Chrysler.
Plymouths, sure - Fury IIIs usually have no console if they are a 4-speed. And they are usually a bench seat.
This would be the 1st buddy-seat, 4-speed, no console car I can recall seeing.
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