Which headlight color temperature do you prefer?

[Henrius]

I want to convert my headlights to LED to see better at night and lessen the amperage drain. Summit Racing has their own house brand for $99, and then there are the Holley Retrolights at more than twice this amount.

Eventually I will install relays in the headlight circuit to further reduce the current though the headlight switch.

Which color temperature is better for helping you see at night? The traditional match is 3000K, but I see some offered at a more modern 5700K. Keeping the headlight beams looking original at night is not important in my mind.

 

[bnz84]

For every other bulb besides the headlights I like warm white 2700-300. But my headlight leds are 6000K. I prefer the whiter look after all the years of dull yellow OEM. So go for 5700k.

White not blue. Blue look is shite.

 

[CBODY67]

Brighter lights, per se, is NOT as good as using a beam pattern that puts light where it is needed. As in "down road" rather than 50' in front of the car. The 50' light might give you a more secure feeling, BUT not when driving at night in places where there is little to no ambient light.

Then consider "reaction time" in an emergency at night, traveling at even 60mph (88ft/second). Road tests might show that your vehicle might stop in 120' from 60mph, but that can stretch to close to 200' when your reaction time is considered. Which is less than three seconds of travel time at 60mph (which is low for modern times, it seems).

A typical "E-Code" (as in European Code) headlight puts much more light "down the road", while also putting some to the sides and such to read elevated highway signs. They take some getting used to (with out their huge amount in front of the front bumper, but are bretter once you get used to them, from my experiences. SAFER at night too. On the boxes for the old Cibie E-code lights (not sealed beams, but with replaceable halogen bulbs) used to have a graphic which depicted how "bad" USA lighting standards are, as to beam pattern/dispersion related to lighting area. Quite graphic!

As to LEDs, the Holley lights DO have a better beam pattern than the bulk of others like them. An LED has no beam pattern, unless it reflects on a reflector that give them one. LOTS of bad ones out there, that are "LED", by observation. LOTS of lighting seller websites that do not mention these things, too, from what I have seen.

Installing the RELAY KITS can be one of the best, single things you can do to improve headlight performance and take electrical load from the headlight/dimmer switch, plus the bulkhead connector. Just get a quality kit with OEM-level wiring and connectors, for best results.

Look at the internal structure of the projector-beam lights. A reflector-style light wiht an internal "upper cut-off" of the beam. Supposed to be a more precise beam pattern, but also one that can make one use high-beams at night to see anything, by observation. More trendy than not, to me.

ALSO, read up on these things at www.DanielSternLighting.com (might need to input that address manually) for the best information and parts. A trusted expert!

As for "light temperature", anything more toward "daylight" can be worse than better. YOU might like then, but on-coming drivers can hate you. Why? It makes a "high contrast light situation" for them. Worse than the "blinding by high beams" of the 1960s. The more-defined beam pattern can prevent this, unless the lights are aimed too high or "in their lane" laterally (from your car).

With ANY headlight, "aim" is important. There are several YouTuve videos on this, using a wall to see and adjust the lights with.

IF you live in an area with decent road markings, you can do similar without the walls. When in your lane, the "hot spot" for the beam should just touch the lh lane marking, to keep oncoming drivers (on a two lane road) from getting too much light in their eyes. A little "scatter" is fine, but not for the "hot spot" of the main beam. Then use bridge railings on flat bridges to set the horizontal adjustment. going just a hair below horizontal in the hotspiot of the beam on the railings. This is for the lh low-beam bulb. Match that on the rh side low-beam bulb. ALL for "drive on the right" countries. These are my "shadetree" settings. With them and E-code headlights, no REAL need to use high-beams as much as some like to use them.

Side issues -- ALL headlights have been, pretty much universally, rated at 55 wats for high-beams for decades. The newer USA sealed beam headlights have evolved into a more E-code style beam patterns, which with Halogen bulbs, make for "better night driving". The circuit breaker in the headlight switch (or separate) is rated for a bit more than that, usually.

One brand of replaceable headlight bulbs had a bulb with a bit more "yellow" light to allegedly make night driving in inclement weather easier on the eyes. Which might imply the "super-white" color is not good for those same conditions.

I discovered "E-Code" headlights in the later 1970s, when I met two future friends who had them in their cars like mine. The difference at night was significant. Not in brightness, but in how much better I could see "down the road" than the OEM sealed beams in my 1977 car. I was sold, then and there, and got some when I could. Then Cibie came out with some "Z-Beams", with an upper cut-off that was lower on the left and center, than on the right hand side. Kept the light out of the mirrors of the cars you drove up behind, but also put more "higher" light to the side for reading road signs. Very neat! But that was in the 1980s when all headlights (cars and pickups) were pretty much at the same elevation to the roadway. Now that a 2500HD pickup truck's stock headlight elevation is "same as the inside rear view mirror" as most normal cars (which are higher than many sporty cars!), a "different world" now.

Another side issue can be double-ended. Is the "need to see" due to higher road speeds at night? Is the "need to see" due to un-observed vision changes in YOUR eyesight? Which can affect the other items, too. I KNOW how this works as I discovered the same things myself. Some HD eye-related supplements have helped a lot.

My experiences and observations. YMMV
CBODY67

 

[Toolmanmike]

Brighter lights, per se, is NOT as good as using a beam pattern that puts light where it is needed. As in "down road" rather than 50' in front of the car. The 50' light might give you a more secure feeling, BUT not when driving at night in places where there is little to no ambient light.

Then consider "reaction time" in an emergency at night, traveling at even 60mph (88ft/second). Road tests might show that your vehicle might stop in 120' from 60mph, but that can stretch to close to 200' when your reaction time is considered. Which is less than three seconds of travel time at 60mph (which is low for modern times, it seems).

A typical "E-Code" (as in European Code) headlight puts much more light "down the road", while also putting some to the sides and such to read elevated highway signs. They take some getting used to (with out their huge amount in front of the front bumper, but are bretter once you get used to them, from my experiences. SAFER at night too. On the boxes for the old Cibie E-code lights (not sealed beams, but with replaceable halogen bulbs) used to have a graphic which depicted how "bad" USA lighting standards are, as to beam pattern/dispersion related to lighting area. Quite graphic!

As to LEDs, the Holley lights DO have a better beam pattern than the bulk of others like them. An LED has no beam pattern, unless it reflects on a reflector that give them one. LOTS of bad ones out there, that are "LED", by observation. LOTS of lighting seller websites that do not mention these things, too, from what I have seen.

Installing the RELAY KITS can be one of the best, single things you can do to improve headlight performance and take electrical load from the headlight/dimmer switch, plus the bulkhead connector. Just get a quality kit with OEM-level wiring and connectors, for best results.

Look at the internal structure of the projector-beam lights. A reflector-style light wiht an internal "upper cut-off" of the beam. Supposed to be a more precise beam pattern, but also one that can make one use high-beams at night to see anything, by observation. More trendy than not, to me.

ALSO, read up on these things at www.DanielSternLighting.com (might need to input that address manually) for the best information and parts. A trusted expert!

As for "light temperature", anything more toward "daylight" can be worse than better. YOU might like then, but on-coming drivers can hate you. Why? It makes a "high contrast light situation" for them. Worse than the "blinding by high beams" of the 1960s. The more-defined beam pattern can prevent this, unless the lights are aimed too high or "in their lane" laterally (from your car).

With ANY headlight, "aim" is important. There are several YouTuve videos on this, using a wall to see and adjust the lights with.

IF you live in an area with decent road markings, you can do similar without the walls. When in your lane, the "hot spot" for the beam should just touch the lh lane marking, to keep oncoming drivers (on a two lane road) from getting too much light in their eyes. A little "scatter" is fine, but not for the "hot spot" of the main beam. Then use bridge railings on flat bridges to set the horizontal adjustment. going just a hair below horizontal in the hotspiot of the beam on the railings. This is for the lh low-beam bulb. Match that on the rh side low-beam bulb. ALL for "drive on the right" countries. These are my "shadetree" settings. With them and E-code headlights, no REAL need to use high-beams as much as some like to use them.

Side issues -- ALL headlights have been, pretty much universally, rated at 55 wats for high-beams for decades. The newer USA sealed beam headlights have evolved into a more E-code style beam patterns, which with Halogen bulbs, make for "better night driving". The circuit breaker in the headlight switch (or separate) is rated for a bit more than that, usually.

One brand of replaceable headlight bulbs had a bulb with a bit more "yellow" light to allegedly make night driving in inclement weather easier on the eyes. Which might imply the "super-white" color is not good for those same conditions.

I discovered "E-Code" headlights in the later 1970s, when I met two future friends who had them in their cars like mine. The difference at night was significant. Not in brightness, but in how much better I could see "down the road" than the OEM sealed beams in my 1977 car. I was sold, then and there, and got some when I could. Then Cibie came out with some "Z-Beams", with an upper cut-off that was lower on the left and center, than on the right hand side. Kept the light out of the mirrors of the cars you drove up behind, but also put more "higher" light to the side for reading road signs. Very neat! But that was in the 1980s when all headlights (cars and pickups) were pretty much at the same elevation to the roadway. Now that a 2500HD pickup truck's stock headlight elevation is "same as the inside rear view mirror" as most normal cars (which are higher than many sporty cars!), a "different world" now.

Another side issue can be double-ended. Is the "need to see" due to higher road speeds at night? Is the "need to see" due to un-observed vision changes in YOUR eyesight? Which can affect the other items, too. I KNOW how this works as I discovered the same things myself. Some HD eye-related supplements have helped a lot.

My experiences and observations. YMMV
CBODY67

Dan is a member here. @slantsixdan He is an expert at lighting (and a whole lot more)

 

[slantsixdan]

I want to convert my headlights to LED to see better at night and lessen the amperage drain. Summit Racing has their own house brand for $99, and then there are the Holley Retrolights at more than twice this amount.

And both of those are unsafe junk – I'm not exaggerating. Details in this FABO thread – the only thing not still current in that thread is the recommendations for what to buy instead, which doesn't matter anyway for the cars we talk about here on FCBO, which use quad 5-3/4" round headlamps versus dual 7" rounds on the A-bodies.

There are (only and exactly) two worthy LED headlamp sets in the 5-3/4" round size. One set is made in South Korea by Weldex. The other set is made in America by JW Speaker – that's actually two sets; their current ones are an older design, still good, but JWS have engineered an all-new line of LED sealed beam replacements, markedly better in every way than the existing ones (every aspect of beam performance, durability, efficiency, much easier fit in the stock bucket cups, etc). They're ramping up production now, for official launch in early April. I drove behind these new headlamps when I was visiting JW Speaker HQ not long ago, and they're quite excellent. Enough better than the old/current lamps to be worth waiting for. Both the JW Speaker and Weldex lamps are commercial-duty items engineered and built for long service life on over-the-road trucks (versus the gumball-machine-grade trinkets from "Holley" and Summit).

Eventually I will install relays in the headlight circuit to further reduce the current though the headlight switch.

Wise with halogen lamps – not needed or beneficial with LEDs.

Which color temperature is better for helping you see at night?

The CCT has a very large effect on how much glare the lamps create for others, and a very small effect on how well you can (actually, really) see. Much more important than this or that kind of white light is to have an appropriate light distribution (beam pattern) and careful, correct headlamp aim.

"Very large effect on glare" means cold/blue-white light (5700K to 6500K) of a given intensity creates 50 to 60 per cent more of a particular kind of glare (called discomfort glare) than that same intensity of warm/neutral white light (3000K to 4000K) – but without any better seeing with the colder/bluer white light. So it's unfortunate there are no legitimate, worthy LED headlamps with lower CCTs.

Since we're on the subject, and most of us also have newer cars with composite headlamps: halogen lamps—reflector, projector, headlamps, fog lamps, all of them—need to use halogen bulbs. The "LED bulbs" now flooding the market (like "HID kits" before them), claiming to convert halogen headlamps, are not a legitimate, safe, effective, or legal product. No matter whose name is on them or what the vendor claims, these are almost all a fraudulent scam. The overwhelming majority of them are not capable of producing the right amounts of light, nor producing it in the right pattern for the lamp's optics to work, let alone work well. So, it's gotta be halogen bulbs. They're not all alike, and many of the ones offered as "upgrades" are in fact downgrades.

(I'm not the world's only professional vehicle lighting subject matter expert…but I'm one of them)

 

[Henrius]

Thanks for this wonderful, useful information, Cbody 67.

some of my night deficiency is indeed a cataract, which I will have removed shortly. However, I have noticed how much better I can see with my 2008 Corolla than with my vintage Mopars. Lighting has indeed improved.

Yes, aim, is important. Not many body shops adjust it after a wreck. Our state used to require annual inspections and headlight aim was on the list. But no more.

As well as being brighter, it would be nice to have a wider field of view. I will play around with aiming them higher.

Will probably replace the halogens with Retrolights on one side only, so I can compare the beam pattern and color temperature.

Guys say they convert their 1955 and older cars to 12 volt just to see better at night. They say the 6 volt headlights were not even as brights as the conventional 12 volt headlights!

 

[CBODY67]

Thanks for this wonderful, useful information, Cbody 67.

some of my night deficiency is indeed a cataract, which I will have removed shortly. However, I have noticed how much better I can see with my 2008 Corolla than with my vintage Mopars. Lighting has indeed improved.

Yes, aim, is important. Not many body shops adjust it after a wreck. Our state used to require annual inspections and headlight aim was on the list. But no more.

As well as being brighter, it would be nice to have a wider field of view. I will play around with aiming them higher.

Will probably replace the halogens with Retrolights on one side only, so I can compare the beam pattern and color temperature.

Guys say they convert their 1955 and older cars to 12 volt just to see better at night. They say the 6 volt headlights were not even as brights as the conventional 12 volt headlights!

The 1950s-era headlights actually had a light BULB in them, though they were sealed beams. More like 35W rating, but it was unusual to drive "fast" back then, when the speed limits (in many states) has "Daylight" and "Night Time" speed limits (usually 5mph at night).

When factory halogen headlights came into play, in the earlier 1980s, it was easy to see one of those vehicles at night, because their light made the older headlights seem "yellow" and dim. Now, the current "white" lights do the same to the halogens.

IF you want to do LEDs, do the tail lights with LED lights that have emitters to make use of the reflector housing in the rear lights. LEDs with emitters on the sides rather than just the top. BUT you'll also need the "load adjuster" to put into the circuit so the thermal flasher will work, or buy an electronic-controled flasher for your car. The LEDs will illuminate to full brightness sooner, which can mean the driver behind you sees them, probably, 20' sooner.

Be safe,
CBODY67

 

[Henrius]

And both of those are unsafe junk – I'm not exaggerating. Details in this FABO thread – the only thing not still current in that thread is the recommendations for what to buy instead, which doesn't matter anyway for the cars we talk about here on FCBO, which use quad 5-3/4" round headlamps versus dual 7" rounds on the A-bodies.

There are (only and exactly) two worthy LED headlamp sets in the 5-3/4" round size. One set is made in South Korea by Weldex. The other set is made in America by JW Speaker – that's actually two sets; their current ones are an older design, still good, but JWS have engineered an all-new line of LED sealed beam replacements, markedly better in every way than the existing ones (every aspect of beam performance, durability, efficiency, much easier fit in the stock bucket cups, etc). They're ramping up production now, for official launch in early April. I drove behind these new headlamps when I was visiting JW Speaker HQ not long ago, and they're quite excellent. Enough better than the old/current lamps to be worth waiting for. Both the JW Speaker and Weldex lamps are commercial-duty items engineered and built for long service life on over-the-road trucks (versus the gumball-machine-grade trinkets from "Holley" and Summit)

(I'm not the world's only professional vehicle lighting subject matter expert…but I'm one of them)

Pretty impressive your knowledge about lighting, and I respect you for it. Only trouble with both Weldex and JW speakers is the lights might shine nicely, but look nothing like the original lights on our old cars. But then I don't know what the new lights will look like that will be released April 1st. Have you seen them? Do they appear more like vintage lights when turned off?

 

[slantsixdan]

There are no legitimate / worthy LED headlamps that look anything like sealed beams, full stop. It's a damn shame the "Holley" Retrobrights are as bad as they are, because the concept is a great one (old-fashioned looks with new-fashioned technology). The new JW Speakers look different to the current ones, but not at all olde-tyme. I can't show pics yet – not til the official product launch at the truck show in March.

You can have much better seeing at night without defacing the car – just not with LEDs.

 

[slantsixdan]

The 1950s-era headlights actually had a light BULB in them

A small minority of early sealed beams, mostly the ones made by Auto-Lite, used a bulb soldered into a stamped steel reflector, with a glass lens glued on. These were severely inferior to the all-glass units, which took over completely by about 1956.

IF you want to do LEDs, do the tail lights with LED lights

Careful-careful-careful! The overwhelming majority of "LED Bulbs" for tail lights, brake lights, turn signals, etc are also fraudulent, unsafe junk – even the ones with side-facing emitters. As with the headlamps, you can greatly improve the safety performance of an old car's signal lights, but mostly not with LEDs. Some details are here, and there are more details here – given in context of someone building their own lights from scratch, but all the intensity/intensity ratio/etc stuff applies here too. I don't suggest you should
go to the trouble of the involved measurements I describe (that was more for his build-from-scratch project), but just so you get some idea of the complexity involved beyond "Yep, it lights up and I like the way it looks".

you'll also need the "load adjuster" to put into the circuit so the thermal flasher will work, or buy an electronic-controled flasher for your car.

Real bulbs or "LED bulbs", go ahead and put in the new-type flasher (2-prong like original; connect its ground wire conveniently), because its lower internal resistance will brighten up your turn signals. And if you are using LEDs, this way you avoid piercing/breaching your wires and creating localized fire hazards with "load resistors".

The LEDs will illuminate to full brightness sooner, which can mean the driver behind you sees them, probably, 20' sooner.

Yes, LEDs are instant-on, rather than taking 250 milliseconds (1/4 of a second) to reach full brightness. But that is not the only factor that affects and counts toward the safety performance of a car's brake lights. Inappropriate light distribution, inadequate difference/ratio between the bright brake and dim tail modes, and other factors more than cancel out the instant-on benefit…

…which is a great one in theory, but doesn't necessarily translate to real-world crash reductions. Read all about it in this big study based on US crash data.

Consider adding a CHMSL (3rd brake light); that is a highly effective crash-avoidance add-on. Worthy ones were the minority on the market amidst a mountain of poorly-made junk, back in the '80s-'90s when they were easy to find. They became mandatory 40 years ago, so the vast majority of cars on the road already have one, and the majority of pre-'86 cars that were going to get one installed, already got one installed, so all the good ones went out of production. I have a decent stash of 'em, gimme a squawk if y'want.

 

[slantsixdan]

some of my night deficiency is indeed a cataract, which I will have removed shortly.

That will help a LOT.

However, I have noticed how much better I can see with my 2008 Corolla than with my vintage Mopars. Lighting has indeed improved.

Yup, it has indeed (and the Corolla's lamps, already good, can safely be made very much better).

Yes, aim, is important. Not many body shops adjust it after a wreck. Our state used to require annual inspections and headlight aim was on the list. But no more.

That's a real problem. Modern headlamps are a whole lot more sensitive to misaim than old ones, yet we don't bother checking aim any more in North America.

As well as being brighter, it would be nice to have a wider field of view.

Yup. Sealed beams are notorious for a dim, narrow beam. This, too, can be fixed without degrading your overall safety, just not with LEDs.

I will play around with aiming them higher.

Please don't. Headlight aim is not a matter of guess, opinion, preference, or play-around. There is one correct setting for any given lamp at any given mount height.

Will probably replace the halogens with Retrolights on one side only, so I can compare the beam pattern and color temperature.

Understandable urge, but it won't get you the info you're seeking. The difficulty is, what we feel like we're seeing isn't what we're actually seeing. The human visual system is a lousy judge of how well it's doing. "I know what I can see!" seems reasonable, but it doesn't square up with reality because we humans are just not well equipped to accurately evaluate how well or poorly we can see (or how well a headlamp works). Our subjective impressions tend to be very far out of line with objective, real measurements of how well we can (or can't) see.

The primary factor that drives subjective ratings of headlamps is foreground light, that is light on the road surface close to the vehicle…which is almost irrelevant; it barely even makes it onto the bottom of the list of factors that determine a headlamp's actual safety performance. A moderate amount of foreground light is necessary so we can use our peripheral vision to keep track of the lane lines and keep our focus up the road where it should be, and sealed beams produce so little that it fels like we're driving into a black hole, but too much foreground light works against us: it draws our gaze downward even if we consciously try to keep looking far ahead, and the bright pool of light causes our pupils to constrict, which destroys our distance vision. All of this while creating the feeling that we've got "good" lights. It's not because we're lying to ourselves or fooling ourselves or anything like that, it's because our visual systems just don't work the way it feels like they work.

The upshot of this is that most internet "reviews" of a headlamp are useless at best, even if we disregard the marketing-bulkwrap ones (such as those EwTube videos with the shreddin' guitar riffs, from a pretend-variety of creators which actually all trace back to one shady company) – and that would be the case even if we ignore the bogus criteria people often use when "reviewing" headlamps: sharp cutoff on low beam, etc (also very low on the list of factors that determine a headlamp's actual safety performance, but it looks nifty on the garage wall), and all the handwaving and pseudoscience about color temperature.

Guys say they convert their 1955 and older cars to 12 volt just to see better at night. They say the 6 volt headlights were not even as brights as the conventional 12 volt headlights!

Back when the comparison was a level playing field, 6v versus 12v versions of otherwise-same sealed beams, the 6v was the better one (more compact filament --> better beam focus --> better seeing). But 6v sealed beams stopped being developed and 12v ones kept being developed, plus voltage drop is a bigger factor in a 6v system, so yeah. That said, there are 6v H4 bulbs.

 

[volksworld]

another factor with the 6v stuff is that we were running generators back then so voltage at idle and cruise was usually lower than at high rpm...lights got brighter, directionals and wipers went faster when you revved it up...I had cars where the horn wouldn't blow at idle...think I had some yellow 6v Cibie fog lights with H4s back in the day