1962 300 Sport Coupe - Disk Brake Q

[Haney]

I just acquired a 1962 300 Sport Coupe, 383, Push button. It is a very solid car but needs some love. First are brakes. What is the easiest way to add disk brakes to the front of this boat? I looked at scarebird and they showed 1961, 1963 and 1964 kits, no 62. Are these and animal of their own? Thanks in advance for any thoughts

 

[Big_John]

Fix the existing brakes.

 

[CBODY67]

When I first came to see what "Scarebird" was, I liked it. The fact that most everything could be sourced from auto supply "new" parts, rather than chasing over salvage yards. But as I followed them, I noticed that their equipment items were changing. THEN it occured to me as to why! As sales volumes decrease, the auto supply world drops those parts from their catalogs and warehouses. Just like a new OEM would do.

I like OEM-originated designs, as I consider them tot be more robust in nature, for a reason, but as "consumables" become harder to get (as brake rotors and brake drums, but not brake pads/linings), that puts another side issue into the mix.

Which can lead to Wilwood's door. Not that they are the best, just that they will probably be selling rotors and such after the auto supplies are out of parts (or that nature). BUT few auto supplies sell their branded-items, which can be an issue for some.

--- There ARE a few threads in here on putting disc brakes on those cars, using parts from some other places. DO INVESTIGATE THEM and choose what might work best for you. ---

 

[CBODY67]

Fix the existing brakes.

To this orientation, VERY VALID!

When new, the brakes on those cars were pretty good. Being able to lock-up the wheels in a panic stop, making the tires the main player in that activity, not the brakes. With the somewhat crude (by modern standards) brake frictions we had back then. AND doing all of this with less brake pedal pressure than even 1970s power front disc brake cars, in normal driving.

Now, aside from OEM linings back then, there were good-performing linings and there were others that were NOT. In a time before such things came to be federally-regulated, which was good for ALL. The main name brands of brake components were at least of OEM-spec quality and performance, as the less expensive brands were not. Several brake friction performance tests by car magazines proved that, big-time.

Chrysler bragged about their "Total Contact Brakes" back then. They were better for a reason. Problem was that they were more-complicated in design and not everybody knew how to work on them well. Which probably cost Chrysler Corp some future customers as everybody knew how to work on GM and Ford brakes, which were a simpler design, but each had their performance issues. Some GM cars could not drive past a mud-puddle and still have brakes, ti seemed.

I KNOW the Chrysler design was better than others and could perform better, as a result. With some modern friction materials, they can still be great today, I suspect! Just need to understand the ins and outs of adjusting them, basically, to me. The better frictions, which can endure the higher temps of mountain driving, are around, but for a cost. As is better grades of brake fluid. BUT fewer people understand that back then, WE knew how well the TorqueFlite was to aid engine braking in the mountains! Just put the selector in "2" and things worked better, as to the brakes not getting too hot.

Still, this still has the issue of what to use for brake drums in the future, as stocks of existing drums in the correct sizes diminish and are not replenished by the vendors.

Perhaps others, as @saforwardlook, can add to this conversation?

Happy Holidays,
CBODY67

 

[saforwardlook]

To this orientation, VERY VALID!

When new, the brakes on those cars were pretty good. Being able to lock-up the wheels in a panic stop, making the tires the main player in that activity, not the brakes. With the somewhat crude (by modern standards) brake frictions we had back then. AND doing all of this with less brake pedal pressure than even 1970s power front disc brake cars, in normal driving.

Now, aside from OEM linings back then, there were good-performing linings and there were others that were NOT. In a time before such things came to be federally-regulated, which was good for ALL. The main name brands of brake components were at least of OEM-spec quality and performance, as the less expensive brands were not. Several brake friction performance tests by car magazines proved that, big-time.

Chrysler bragged about their "Total Contact Brakes" back then. They were better for a reason. Problem was that they were more-complicated in design and not everybody knew how to work on them well. Which probably cost Chrysler Corp some future customers as everybody knew how to work on GM and Ford brakes, which were a simpler design, but each had their performance issues. Some GM cars could not drive past a mud-puddle and still have brakes, ti seemed.

I KNOW the Chrysler design was better than others and could perform better, as a result. With some modern friction materials, they can still be great today, I suspect! Just need to understand the ins and outs of adjusting them, basically, to me. The better frictions, which can endure the higher temps of mountain driving, are around, but for a cost. As is better grades of brake fluid. BUT fewer people understand that back then, WE knew how well the TorqueFlite was to aid engine braking in the mountains! Just put the selector in "2" and things worked better, as to the brakes not getting too hot.

Still, this still has the issue of what to use for brake drums in the future, as stocks of existing drums in the correct sizes diminish and are not replenished by the vendors.

Perhaps others, as @saforwardlook, can add to this conversation?

Happy Holidays,
CBODY67

Given that I own 3 Forward Look cars I am pretty familiar with Total Contact Brakes and since all of mine were built before 1963, they do have total contact brakes. While @Big_John has a point, there are a lot of mixed opinions on them. For me, I would rather have disc brakes because the total contact brakes are hard to source good parts for anymore and they are not that easy to work on and also require special tools to make the job go reasonably straightforward. Also, all early drum brake Chryslers even use single pot master cylinders rather than the dual pot master cylinders used on most vehicles with drum brakes since the earliest ones. That means if your master cylinder loses fluid or otherwise has problems, there is nothing to help one stop at all except the park brake which is even mounted on the automatic transmission outlet on the early Chryslers and is useless in trying to stop a rolling car since it is relatively tiny and only adequate to hold a car in place when parked on a hill.

Jay Leno has his definite opinion on this subject and he believes total contact brakes are, in a word, unsafe. He has a 1961 Chrysler 300G in his collection and also a 1958 Imperial convertible as well that also had the total contact brakes when new. Because he believes they are unsafe, he has had his cars so equipped changed over to a disc brake setup but the setup he uses is very expensive (Wildwood) and he can afford it Here is the link for that particular Imperial episode: Jay Lenos gaage 1958 Imperial convertible - Bing starting at about 9:10. For me, I am very familiar with how to bleed and adjust total contact brakes but most people have no clue and the special operations for the total contact systems can easily be done wrong. I also use DOT 5 silicone fluid in my systems so I don't have to worry as much about accumulation of water in the systems that leads to failure of the wheel cylinders if one doesn't replace the regular fluid on a regular basis.

I believe that @Big_John owns a 1965 Chrysler 300L and those have a very normal regular drum brake system that works adequately and the methods to keep them working well are the normal ones for drum brake cars and those can even be upgraded to dual master cylinders for some additional safety with those systems.

Chrysler went to regular drum brake systems with the 1963 and up models and so your easiest solution would be to change over your 1962 system with a complete brake system on a later model 1963 and up 300 and incorporate a dual master cylinder for additional safety. You might even want to include a newer rear end that doesn't require a special puller to get the rear drums off of a total contact brake system with its tapered axles.

I have owned Forward Look cars since I was around 19 years old I am used to their vagaries but honestly I have never liked them when all things are considered. But they do stop well on a panic stop from not too high of a speed but fade rapidly when trying to stop traveling at somewhat high speeds or on a grade.

One other thought I can add is that I do own a 300C, a 300F and a 300H. When all three are considered, I enjoy my 300H in terms of driving much more that the other 2 cars since the H is a little smaller, lighter, more nimble and rides and handles significantly better that the other two. So if I could only keep one, it would be my 300H. If I only cared about turning heads when driving any of them (I don't) I would drive the C or the F.

Since I haven't shown my 3 Letter cars for some time now, here they are for the newer members...................................

 

[62newportnewbie]

I went with the AAJ front disc kit on my 62 Newport... Had the car for ~~3 years.

The stock "Total Contact" brakes were all new when I bought my car. The car was a non-running and driving project. They never worked right... I spent 2 winters trying to make them work with no luck. Constant grabbing, pulling right or left, random locking up etc.

Read many threads, tried all the tricks, they worked, but never correctly or reliably.

Went to a local car show and talked to a couple local people with very "modded" and souped up forward look cars. It was obvious the owners were decent mechanics, and knew how to work on cars. I looked at their front brakes, and they both had discs... I said why did you swap to discs? They both said they could not get the stock brakes to work correctly. I then realized it was not me, it was something beyond my control. ( Parts quality? )

Anyway, I did an AAJ disc swap, front only, this fall. Took a couple weeks to gather parts and get the kit. Did the swap in a couple days... worst part was bleeding.

The brakes now work very well. NO pulling, grabbing, lock-up, just smooth stops and starts. I literally had no fun driving the car before I did the swap, as a brake could lock at any stop sign, and not release, or violently pull one way or another.. All of that is gone, and car is a pleasure to drive. I was only able to put a few hundred miles on, as they have salted the roads here, but I fully expect the brakes to work perfectly in the spring.

Other's have been able to get the stock brakes to work fine. Not arguing that point, They are better mechanic's than I am, ( Big John and other's are the best! ) Maybe better parts, etc etc. As for me, the AAJ kit solved my problem... I really like my 62 Newport, but the erratic brakes had me to the point of thinking of selling it. I am so pleased I did not sell, and did the conversion, It fixed my car and made it a pleasure to drive.

EDIT- Just want to be clear, I am not against drum brakes- I have a 1965 Buick Wildcat with 4 wheel Bendix drum brakes that work perfectly... I would not change them.

The Chrysler "Full Contact" Lockheed brakes from the late 50's to 1962 are another story. They are very "glitchy" and just do not compare to the Bendix style brakes used on later models imho. Chrysler stopped using them for a reason.

 

[Finsinthemirror]

I'd use AAJ so you can keep the stock 14 inch wheels, I've seen about folks talk about using Aspen or 5th Avenue spindles and complete front brakes as well as read about finding a 63/64 300 and bolting on those front drum brakes to get rid of the duo-servo brakes.