57 Belvedere starter trouble 301 v8

[Rusty Muffler]

Hi all, my starter doesn't engage every time and sometimes it seems to be drawing down on the battery more that usual. New Battery and starter switch. I had the starter on the bench and cleaned up the shaft and greased it. It seemed very free when I put it back in. Could it be something in the drive and can anything be done without replacing the drive?

 

[CBODY67]

If the starter drive was bad, it would be making a noise.

Is this happening on a cold engine, warm engine, or after it's run and sat for a while before re-starting?

You might have a new switch and battery, but there still can be the bulkhead connector terminal on the firewall that can have issues. Might run a ground wire between the starter body and the body for diagnostics.

Has this starter been rebuilt? What type of grease on the bushings?

Do charge the battery to full charge. Then after trying to start the car, put the charger back on and see how long it takes to replenish the battery charge.

Please keep us posted on your progress,
CBODY67

 

[Finsinthemirror]

There are no bulkhead terminal connectors on 57-58 plymouths.

 

[Rusty Muffler]

It did do it more noticeably when I parked it overnight it 32 degree weather. But this time it was cold in the garage about 65 degrees? Don't know if it's been rebuilt or the grease as I only dealt with to shaft in front of the gear that it slides on.

 

[CBODY67]

There are no bulkhead terminal connectors on 57-58 plymouths.

If no bulkhead connector on the firewall, where is the junction block for the circuits which enter the passenger compartment? Just curious.

CBODY67

 

[Finsinthemirror]

The headlight switch is the circuit breaker on these cars. No fuse block (but there are 2 fusible links if memory serves 1 behind the clock and 1 behind the radio), no bulkhead connector. If equipped with power windows or power seat there will be a separate circuit breaker behind the drivers side kick panel.

 

[CBODY67]

The headlight switch would have a circuit breaker in it just for the headlights, I suspect.

Still, is there no junction block or place where the forward harnesses are attached to the "inside" harnesses?

Just curious,
CBODY67

 

[Finsinthemirror]

diagram (there are minor differences between 57 and 58)

 

[CBODY67]

I just finished looking at the wiring diagrams at www.jholst.net (for Chryslers) and at www.mymopare.com (for '57-'58 Plymouths). The advantage of the Chrysler information was that it had a chart of where the circuit breakers were and what their ratings are for each model year from 1955 to 1965. The headlight switch and wiper switch were the main switches which had circuit breakers in them.

The Plymouth diagrams showed me a few things I was looking for, like the terminal strip where the headlights were powered (on one year and not the other year!) and a related connector which went to the rear lights. In one year, it showed a 7.5A inline fuse at the radio, but not in the other year.

Further investigation seemed to indicate that EACH year had some variation from its next model year and so on and so on until 1965.

In one respect, it kind of looked like the engineers, after they had the starter and charging system taken care of, hooked feed wires of downstream items to places where they already had power, rather than running separate wires, and on, and on, and on until everything was powered. And, all of the battery voltage went through the Ammeter gauge. BTAIM

Thanks for the education,
CBODY67

 

[Rusty Muffler]

diagram (there are minor differences between 57 and 58)

View attachment 632709

I have a quick question off this topic Fins, My 301 refreshed motor isn't very "peppy". It's sort of lackluster in power. Maybe this is where the term Lead Sled comes in? Also, should I be manually shifting gears to get more power with the auto transmission??

 

[Finsinthemirror]

I have a quick question off this topic Fins, My 301 refreshed motor isn't very "peppy". It's sort of lackluster in power. Maybe this is where the term Lead Sled comes in? Also, should I be manually shifting gears to get more power with the auto transmission??

I've never had a want for power with the poly motor but I guess that depends on where you're coming from. I think the 4bbl polys are quite torquey and move the cars nicely. BUT if you're used to a mild cammed 440 or something maybe the poly might be a slight letdown. You might do a compression check, are the valves properly adjusted, check the plugs, verify timing of both the engine and distributor, confirm vacuum advance is working correctly, make sure no vacuum leaks, tune the carb, is the trans adjusted properly, kickdown.. etc. Is the motor new and broke in properly? Was the cam replaced? You shouldn't have to push 1-2-D or low-D if it's powerflight.. Back in the day all the racers used torqueflight transmissions because they were the best.

 

[Rusty Muffler]

I bought the car with the motor out but rebuilt. Inside it looks like some valves were replaced but no pistons so I would assume new rings installed. It still needs to be driven but compression is around 95-110psi which should get better as she breaks in. Everything else is within specs and she really purrs at idle. She has the factory Carter 4 barrel. I believe TOTAL advance is at 28 degrees. I had a 66 Fury III with the 318 poly 4 barrel and it went pretty good.

 

[CBODY67]

Is "peppiness" related to normal off-idle response of from 30-55mph? If it is a 2-speed PowerFlite, it will be slower off the like than the 3-speed TorqueFlite, just because low gear is 2.45 with the TF and 1.72 with the PF. You might try a bit more base timing and see if it might help. Re-check the adjustment of the transmission linkage as that can affect part-throttle shift points, too.

The 66 would have been a few hundred pounds heavier, but with the TF.

CBODY67

 

[Finsinthemirror]

95 is a little low but break it in properly and go from there, once its broke in with 500-1000 miles make sure you change the oil (with zinc additive or use high zinc diesel oil) and filter and you'll probably have to readjust the valves.. I think the 301 power pack (4bbl dual exhaust) was rated at like 235 or 250hp.. - that's off the top of my head so don't quote me. The Fury 318 was 290 I know that for sure.. Not exactly a rocket but more than adequate for the car I think.

 

[Rusty Muffler]

If the starter drive was bad, it would be making a noise.

Is this happening on a cold engine, warm engine, or after it's run and sat for a while before re-starting?

You might have a new switch and battery, but there still can be the bulkhead connector terminal on the firewall that can have issues. Might run a ground wire between the starter body and the body for diagnostics.

Has this starter been rebuilt? What type of grease on the bushings?

Do charge the battery to full charge. Then after trying to start the car, put the charger back on and see how long it takes to replenish the battery charge.

Please keep us posted on your progress,
CBODY67

It seems to be getting worse, so I'll have to pull the starter apart. Anyone know where to find a rebuild kit for these 12 volt? I think it's a autolite 6001 starter?

 

[Rusty Muffler]

Sound the problem, 2 of the brushes wore down to where one of the bakelite holders broke. I hope those come with new brushes???