Any members in Italy or Sicily?

[Carmine]

I'll keep the question simple for now because I'd be surprised if the answer is "yes".

Here's a couple photos, because people like photos.

 

[PeugFra]

Yes, about an hour's drive from Venice, though.

 

[Carmine]

Yes, about an hour's drive from Venice, though.

Grazie. I asked because I'm looking for the opinions of people with whom I have at least one common interest.

My wife and I have become intrigued with the idea of visiting southern Italy and Sicily. I'm sure you're aware of all of the incentives to repopulate small Southern Italian towns. So while it is a huge stretch (and years away) to say we are planning to pull move (part time) to Italy/Sicily, I would also say we are open to the idea.

Consequently we have both joined several Facebook groups that discuss moving to Italy, reitiring to Italy, schooling kids in Italy, etc. The problem is, I don't have much in common with the people in these groups. Most of their focus is Urban-style living... Sitting in a sidewalk cafe sipping espressos, then switching to alcohol later in the evening, living in a tiny apartment and waiting to die.

I am far too hands-on and far too restless for that. I like to build things. I like to work on cars. Buying a run down farm house/villa and making it livable, then turning wrenches on a Mopar when I get frustrated with carpentry would be my ideal retirement. It's not that far off from what I've done in most of my (nonworking) life, except it's been in a climate with 70 days of sunshine per year... I hate clouds and being cold.

So I guess what I'm asking, is what it's like to own a collector car in Italy. I expect it's a bit different in southern Italy or Sicily, just knowing the historic cultural differences.. although I am perhaps 50+ years out of date for all I know.. the southern USA of 2025 isn't the same thing as the southern USA of 1970.

I already know to expect much more expensive fuel cost and some areas where cars just don't fit. I don't think that's a deal killer for me. I've come to realize that I can enjoy owning these cars without even having to drive them very much.

I'm also curious to know what it's like to import things that you already own. I expect to pay tariffs and duty on things I have shipped from some kind of supplier (like buying a replacement carburetor or something). But what if I wanted to fill a shipping container with my own 50-year-old car and some spare parts?

Would I find friends to show me their vintage Alfa Romeos?

If you knew anything about the Home Improvement angle I mentioned, feel free to tell me, I would appreciate it. I hear a lot of nightmare stories about not being able to work on your own property, permitting processes, slow Italian bureaucracy. But I find some of it kind of hard to believe, and most of the people saying it are the types of espresso-sippers who couldn't deal with American bureaucracy either.. and I've done that for decades. Hell I'm actually an elected official, so I've created some bureaucracy in my day.

Anyways, thank you for the reply and I look forward to learning all I can from "normal" car people. I suppose any input from people in the EU is helpful as well. I have spent some time in small town Germany about 20 years ago, and found that I liked it better than I expected to. But that was a small town (Hann Munden) and I think life in a large European city would not suit me.

 

[Carmine]

I should also say that I've been watching the series of videos for a couple years now. I'm not quite as into food as these people are, but there are some things here where I feel sympatico..

Pasta Grammar on YouTube

 

[PeugFra]

Well, I haven't been to southern Italy for years, so I can't say much about that part of the country, only that it's getting hotter every year. There must be villages where buying property should be cheap, as a countermeasure againts depopulation.

Italian love vintage cars, especially those made in Italy. Second come German and British cars. Lots of clubs and events. US cars are a marginal phenomenon, especially when compared to Germany and Northern Europe. Which is not to say that there aren't clubs, events and specialized garages for those as well. I've got the impression that Friuli is a hot spot.

I include two links that may give you a general feel of the antique car scene. The first one is a 2020 issue of the central magazine "La Manovella". This one even includes an article about a US model, which is a rarity.

The second one is a link to this year's edition of the Auto e Moto d'Epoca show, to be held in October in Bologna. Until 2023 this show was held in Padua and included a section with US cars.

Importing a whole container by way of an Italian point of entry will be costly. I only once imported a car from Canada and did it by Holland and Germany to keep costs down. Also look out for the prerequisite that the VIN should be punched in the frame of the car before it can officially be imported. The catch is that self-same action is illegal so you have to work your way around that, like many people before you have successfully done. For instance, I had an agent who arranged that this action be carried out in Germany (where it's also illegal, of course) and immediately forwarded to Italy.

 

[PeugFra]

To be more specific about Friuli, there is an annual gathering of US cars in Lignano Sabbiadoro, that also attracts participants from Slovenia and Austria.

The nationally distributed magazine on US cars, Cruisin', is also produced in Friuli.

The pictures on both sites are a give-away as to which US model series is prevalent.

 

[ayilar]

Paging @antonellomopar and @Michele 300 Mopar

 

[Unix]

Owning a fuselage myself, and driving it plenty around europe (Poland, Germany, Sweden etc) , i am really not into going into the south part of europe in it (Italy, Croatia etc). I frequently visit the south on work delegations, and i must say those backroads (lots and lots of climbing hills) and towns/cities, are not at all friednly to US made cars. I would say the climate, compounded with busy traffic and road infrastructure is not good for oldschool american big blocks. This year i visited Sicily, and was amazed at how run down the place was (apart from the bustling touristy places). This is my personal opinion, but i would rather be cramped and drive down there for holiday in my AMC Gremlin rather than the 71 Newport...

Probably best to go and spend a few weeks/months in Italy before moving, would be my suggestion ;) But i would say that is not a place to own a Mopar ;)

 

[Samplingman]

As said above, if you haven’t already, best to take a vacation for a few weeks and stay in some of the small villages. There are plenty of villas and B&Bs that can be rented which would give you a local flavor. We just got back from a 2 week trip, but it was in Tuscany which is not like the south, at least from what I remember. We stayed in Montisi near Sienna. It is a very small artist enclave and the villa we stayed in was a restored farmhouse. Our host put a lot of work into it so it can be done. Montepulciano was a bit bigger, but you still get the local feel, but more touristy. We rented a Skoda wagon, kind of like a VW Passat and that felt big driving around, but was necessary to get from one village to the next. We mostly had to park outside an area due to the ZTL driving restrictions in most towns. I was surprised as cars were mostly new, very small and the only American brands were Ford and Tesla, but I only counted 3 electrics the whole time. I expected older Fiats and Alfas, but I guess they only come out for car shows. Oh yeah, gas was about $8 a gallon.

 

[ayilar]

As said above, if you haven’t already, best to take a vacation for a few weeks and stay in some of the small villages. There are plenty of villas and B&Bs that can be rented which would give you a local flavor. We just got back from a 2 week trip, but it was in Tuscany which is not like the south, at least from what I remember. We stayed in Montisi near Sienna. It is a very small artist enclave and the villa we stayed in was a restored farmhouse. Our host put a lot of work into it so it can be done. Montepulciano was a bit bigger, but you still get the local feel, but more touristy. We rented a Skoda wagon, kind of like a VW Passat and that felt big driving around, but was necessary to get from one village to the next. We mostly had to park outside an area due to the ZTL driving restrictions in most towns. I was surprised as cars were mostly new, very small and the only American brands were Ford and Tesla (...)

This post is spot on. I would guess that you've already been there, stayed in a small hotel or in a B&B, rented a car, and checked the place for size. But... be sure to rinse and repeat -- to be sure that you've left any rose-colored glasses at home.

Going back to cars, I can't emphasize the usefulness of short and narrow cars in Italy, especially if one spends time in villages and older towns. The Skoda that @Samplingman rented looks like an Octavia -- it is a very good car with fantastic cargo capacity for its size, but it is closer in size to a Jetta/Golf wagon than to a Passat. So, even though it must have felt huge to him anywhere else than on the open road, it is still a small/intermediate car by US standards. @Carmine, take note.

PS: Vehicle width is an issue not only in town but, especially the further south you go, on smaller roads. That is why I was paging @antonellomopar and @Michele 300 Mopar -- they both have plenty of experience with fuselage C-bodies in Italy.

PPS: GM sold Opel to Stellantis, which also owns Peugeot/Citroen/Fiat, and there are plenty of their cars in Italy.

 

[Carmine]

To be more specific about Friuli, there is an annual gathering of US cars in Lignano Sabbiadoro, that also attracts participants from Slovenia and Austria.

The nationally distributed magazine on US cars, Cruisin', is also produced in Friuli.

The pictures on both sites are a give-away as to which US model series is prevalent.

Thank you very much. You've given me a lot to read about. I looked through the first magazine and it's good to have material written in Italian that I'm interested in reading.

 

[Carmine]

I should emphasize that any such plan would be many visits and years from now. Of course I would spend time on the ground before making any type of huge lifestyle change. That said, asking for opinions on the Internet is basically free and provides some level of research/ entertainment. It also helps turn me on to new places to look for information, like the magazine links from above. You are much more "my people" than the divorced purple-haired middle-school teacher in the expat Facebook group.

I am pretty aware of the perception of Sicily and southern Italy as "rundown". But that is part of the appeal to me. I don't wish to be in a touristy or cutting edge type place. I want to be away from technology. When I read negative reviews that talk about an area not having 5G or stores that are closed on Sundays, the voice in my head says "yes, please". I also don't plan to live in the city. If I were to live abroad it would be a walk to the neighbor's house, not just a shout out the window. That's why it's so hard to find information about these places, because they are not touristy and they don't draw the typical American expat who's just looking for a cheap retirement flop.

I worked much of my career in Detroit car factories; with a broad spectrum of people, many of whom I remain friends with to this day. For the most part, areas outside of downtown Detroit certainly qualify as dirty and run down. I've lived 90% of my life within a 10 minute car ride from the border of Detroit... Yet I very much love my neighborhood, the city I live in, and the region in general... The governor, modern culture and weather... Not so much.

The points on driving a C body are well taken. I would plan on getting that fix satisfied during Summers spent back in Michigan. But I would require some kind of old Mopar to keep my sanity. This is might be a good place for me to drive one of those small cars, like a mid-80s Fifth Avenue. (lol, I know it's not considered a small car in Europe... also interestingly, the F/M body platform was designed to be "internationally sized". That's why it has a comparatively upright driving position and large greenhouse). One of my other forms of research is looking at Marketplace ads in other parts of the world. If there are some cars I would consider driving, then I consider it not to be a horrible place. There are a decent number of Chrysler products that appear in a southern Italy / Sicily Marketplace search, surprisingly many of them minivans and L platform, not little runabouts. I would happily buy that to JX platform convertible advertised outside of Palermo and drive the wheels off of it . Heck, I even found an old Chrysler boat and some kook driving a Ram truck.

Keep the thoughts coming, they are invaluable to me.