Electronic fuel pump 413?

[Scoopy G]

Howdy fellas and fell-ettes,

I think I traced the knocking sound coming from the 413 to the manual fuel pump. SO, I removed the AutoZone fuel pump (which pumped fuel just fine) and was getting ready to install the Advance Auto fuel pump. I realize these units may well be made in the same place, but they do have some differences.

THEN, I got to thinking......what if I installed an electronic fuel pump? MY QUESTIONS.....what would the specs be for an electric fuel pump? Delivery rate? any other considerations? A Or could I simply buy a $30 unit off the shelf and plumb/wire it in and BANG! Bob's your Uncle off we go!?

ALSO, I assume I would wire it to the key, so then where would I get a hot lead switched by the key?

OK, thanks as always for your generous and capable help.

Richard in Tampa

 

[57fury440]

Carter makes an electric fuel pump that does not need a regulator. If your engine is stock, I would stay with the mechanical pump. Maybe you just got a bad one. Quality control has not been the greatest in recent years.

 

[Boydsdodge]

Your mechanical pump push rod may be failing.
plenty of posts on this just today.
If you go electric pump, go with the Carter P4070. No regulator needed. run it through a relay for good power.

 

[Toolmanmike]

Mechanical. Remember the electric goes back by the tank. (they push fuel). There's the wiring, relay, switch, or the wiring to a switched circuit or better yet to a oil pressure sender so it will shut off when the engine stops even if the key is on. Yep, stick with the mechanical get's my vote.

 

[Boydsdodge]

Mechanical. Remember the electric goes back by the tank. (they push fuel). There's the wiring, relay, switch, or the wiring to a switched circuit or better yet to a oil pressure sender so it will shut off when the engine stops even if the key is on. Yep, stick with the mechanical get's my vote.

I agree with sticking with mechanical, but if the push rod is wiped, the cam will most likely keep eating pushrods. until new cam is broken in with new rod. Just like cam and lifters, must break in and rotate.

 

[Big_John]

I've always thought if I used an electric pump, I'd go scavenge a pump shut off out of a Crown Vic or something (Ford) like that. That shut off has a crash detection switch that will shut off the fuel, but still has an easy reset.

FWIW, I have a cheap "flow through" type pump back by the tank with a switch to prime the carb when it sits for a while.

 

[Scoopy G]

Thanks guys.

So when you say "push rod", are you referring to the lever on the pump itself? Or something in the engine? I seem to recall some type of different arrangement on my '67 Newport/383, that is, there appeared to be some pushrod thingy inside the engine with that fuel pump setup.

 

[Toolmanmike]

I agree with sticking with mechanical, but if the push rod is wiped, the cam will most likely keep eating pushrods. until new cam is broken in with new rod. Just like cam and lifters, must break in and rotate.

The pushrods are softer material than the cam.

 

[Boydsdodge]

Pushrods. Two badly worn, three NOS.
The push rod is what pushes the fuel pump arm by the rotation of the cam shaft pump lobe. It is located by removing the pipe plug in the block below the fuel pump mounting boss.
Many times the rod will be stuck and need to be coached out with needle nose pliers. The rod needs to be free to move and rotate easily.

 

[D Cluley]

Thanks guys.

So when you say "push rod", are you referring to the lever on the pump itself? Or something in the engine? I seem to recall some type of different arrangement on my '67 Newport/383, that is, there appeared to be some pushrod thingy inside the engine with that fuel pump setup.

Yes, the big blocks have a separate push rod in between the cam and the arm on the fuel pump.

Here is a page with a nice group of pictures showing how it all goes together.
Photo albums

 

[413]

I've always thought if I used an electric pump, I'd go scavenge a pump shut off out of a Crown Vic or something (Ford) like that. That shut off has a crash detection switch that will shut off the fuel, but still has an easy reset.

FWIW, I have a cheap "flow through" type pump back by the tank with a switch to prime the carb when it sits for a while.

It’s called an inertia switch, it’s in all older ford cars, 80’s & 90’s anyway. It need to be solid mounted to the car so it will shut off it car is hit hard, also it will shut off in a rollover.

I would stick with a mechanical pump on a stock vehicle, so simple and usually trouble free.

 

[Big_John]

It’s called an inertia switch, it’s in all older ford cars, 80’s & 90’s anyway. It need to be solid mounted to the car so it will shut off it car is hit hard, also it will shut off in a rollover.

I would stick with a mechanical pump on a stock vehicle, so simple and usually trouble free.

I couldn't remember the name... Knew it was something like that. Located in the trunk, my Grand Marquis had one.

But yea, the stock pump is a better bet... I have seen the electric pumps (all brands) fail over time.

 

[Scoopy G]

Thanks fellas,

I do recall the pushrod from the 383 in the Newport, and the one in the NYer seems to operate back-and-forth easily, with no slop. QUESTION: is it possible that I installed the fuel pump last year with the pushrod in the "down" position? I recall with the Newport 383, I could not seat the pump without pushing the rod back into the engine. BUT, when I installed the pump in the NYer 413, I didn't have this problem, so I figured the 413 fuel pump ran directly off the cam. THEREFOR....would it have been possible for the car to run for the last year without the fuel pump actually pumping fuel? That is to say...gravity feed and suction from the carb?

I just don't recall the same installation sequence on the 413 as I did on the 383...I don't recall thinking I should push that rod back in, and I was able to mount the pump.

Thanks again for all the help, I truly appreciate it.

Rich

 

[Toolmanmike]

Thanks fellas,

I do recall the pushrod from the 383 in the Newport, and the one in the NYer seems to operate back-and-forth easily, with no slop. QUESTION: is it possible that I installed the fuel pump last year with the pushrod in the "down" position? I recall with the Newport 383, I could not seat the pump without pushing the rod back into the engine. BUT, when I installed the pump in the NYer 413, I didn't have this problem, so I figured the 413 fuel pump ran directly off the cam. THEREFOR....would it have been possible for the car to run for the last year without the fuel pump actually pumping fuel? That is to say...gravity feed and suction from the carb?

I just don't recall the same installation sequence on the 413 as I did on the 383...I don't recall thinking I should push that rod back in, and I was able to mount the pump.

Thanks again for all the help, I truly appreciate it.

Rich

There is no "down position" If the pushrod is worn it will be too short and not have enough travel to operate the pump. Even a new pump may not work well enough to feed the engine. Often times the engine will run ok at idle and low speeds but the pump won't provide enough volume for higher speeds and rpm.

 

[Scoopy G]

What I mean Mike is that when the pump is removed, the pushrod drifts down. In order to install the pump, the rod needs to be pushed "up", that is, back toward the camshaft.

 

[Toolmanmike]

What I mean Mike is that when the pump is removed, the pushrod drifts down. In order to install the pump, the rod needs to be pushed "up", that is, back toward the camshaft.

Yes but unless it falls out the arm on the pump will push against the pushrod (and push it up against the cam) when you put the pump in place.

 

[Scoopy G]

Well, OK, but with the 383, the pump would not insert and seat unless I pushed the rod toward the cam and quickly inserted the pump. On the 413, I don't recall pushing the rod toward the cam before inserting/seating the pump. Here's the best photo I could get. The rod does seem a bit off center....

 

[Toolmanmike]

Well, OK, but with the 383, the pump would not insert and seat unless I pushed the rod toward the cam and quickly inserted the pump. On the 413, I don't recall pushing the rod toward the cam before inserting/seating the pump. Here's the best photo I could get. The rod does seem a bit off center....

View attachment 543763

View attachment 543764

Thanks for the photos. Yes, I forgot about the boss there. You can push it up and smear a gob of wheel bearing grease on it to keep it in place. Photos are really important to understand the issue you are having.

 

[Scoopy G]

Thanks Mike. But, still, the rod does seem to be off center with respect to the mounting flange, and the lever on the pump unit is centered on the flange. What's up with that?

 

[John Kirby]

I suspect the off center issue is the same as with lifters and cams. It's done that way to get the pushrod to spin slowly. Lifters do this too so they won't create a worn spot. Assuming you have proper oil flow to everything. I found out about this when I thought I had an issue with my cam being off center. Talked to comp cams and they said it's supposed to be that way. You don't want them to sit centered on the cam lobe. Never would have guessed that but it makes sense once you hear why.