HELP! Headlight relay on fritz!

[pmschmitt]

So I have read about the headlight relay improvement and decided to buy the painless wiring #30815 headlight relay conversion harness kit after talking to them on the phone. It is SUPPOSED to be plug and play ....it is not.

lets start with this I have a 1969 Chrysler 300. All headlights work as should before relay installed.

Head ad light switch on - headlight doors open with low beams on
high beam button on- brights turn on and indicator on dash is illuminated

if at any time I turn off the head light switch the lights turn off and the doors close.

after relay circuit is installed I get the following

light switch on- nothing
high beam on- doors open and high beams on

If I turn light switch off - doors close and lights go off ( only if high beams switch is on) if I turn off high beams before switch is turned off I lose all lights but the doors stay open.

at no point in the new circuit do I have just low beams


anyone dealt with this? I plan to call painless Monday but they are closed until then all help appreciated

 

[commando1]

Can't make a comment really until we see a wiring diagram of the Painless kit.

Personal experience tells me that ALL connections IN the headlight circuit have to be done between the original hot wire to the lamp and the lamp itself.

Sounds to me like you cut into the headlamp circuit far up the line where other components of the headlight circuit are affected.

 

[Big_John]

When you find out what is happening, please post it here.

I have a very similar issue in my 70 300. I wired in two relays. One for the high beams and one for the low beams. In my case, the low beams work, high beams work. Doors open, but do not close except when high beams are on. I didn't use a kit. It's a pretty simple circuit and I also ran larger wires to the headlights.

I think it's a feedback issue from the relay under the dash for the doors. I've tried isolating the relays with diodes from the switch feed, but that doesn't seem to work. I've put off figuring it out for now. It works, I just have to turn the lights off in high beam to get the doors to close. The FSM is a little vague about how that relay is wired, so I need to actually get under the dash and look at the wiring.

 

[Big_John]

Can't make a comment really until we see a wiring diagram of the Painless kit.

Personal experience tells me that ALL connections IN the headlight circuit have to be done between the original hot wire to the lamp and the lamp itself.

Sounds to me like you cut into the headlamp circuit far up the line where other components of the headlight circuit are affected.

In "The bowels of no man's land", there is a relay that opens and closes the headlight doors.

 

[commando1]

In "The bowels of no man's land", there is a relay that opens and closes the headlight doors.

That's what I was referring to. Splicing into the headlamp has to be after everything else and right before the lamp.
That's the gist of what I was trying to illustrate.

 

[Big_John]

That's what I was referring to. Splicing into the headlamp has to be after everything else and right before the lamp.
That's the gist of what I was trying to illustrate.

Yep, and that's what I figured too. My relays are after the door relay and I assume the painless kit is after the door relay too.

The door relay circuit seems simple enough. Open and close the door as the headlight switch is turned on and off. In my case... somewhere... somehow... there is a back feed to the relay to not let the doors close.

The problem is very similar to the OP and I have to say that if we solve one of our issues, we will solve both of them.

 

[commando1]

Looks like the relay needs to be activated by a relay then...

J/k of course. I'm surprised. You've been my go-to electrical man in the past.


Looks to me I identified where you're getting the back feed you suspect. What do you think?

 

[Big_John]

The black is the ground and yes, I think it's feeding back through the motor. I tried a couple diodes in the switch feed without results.

The door relay/motor circuit is a bit strange. There's a delay relay in the circuit that confuses things too. I don't have that relay installed. The doors don't open/close without the key on, unlike the light circuit.

This was part of my dash project from this spring. I had run new larger wire from the relays to the lights and addressed some other wiring "issues" while it was all apart. I have it setup so I can bypass the relays easily... In fact I have jumpers made and in the glove box in case the relays fail.
It's on my to do list for this winter.

 

[pmschmitt]

I will look at my diagram and the painless setup and try to sketch out the diagram tomorrow

 

[The Horvaths]

Just to overstate the obvious: the red and violet/trace wires are the ones that get the relay insertion.

The black at door motor should be grounded.

 

[mr. fix it]

Can't make a comment really until we see a wiring diagram of the Painless kit.

Personal experience tells me that ALL connections IN the headlight circuit have to be done between the original hot wire to the lamp and the lamp itself.

Sounds to me like you cut into the headlamp circuit far up the line where other components of the headlight circuit are affected.

Well stated!!!!!

 

[1966newport]

doesn't the kit simply plug into one of the headlight sockets?

 

[pmschmitt]

Yes it does but the result was not correct

 

[65sporty]

Doesn't BJS work for painless?

 

[Big_John]

I've been staring at the FSM wiring diagram and I have an idea of what the cause is. I'll try a couple things when I get a chance and report back.

 

[commando1]

I've been staring at the FSM wiring diagram and I have an idea of what the cause is. I'll try a couple things when I get a chance and report back.

Will it require plunging into the depths of No Man's Land? lmao...

 

[Big_John]

Will it require plunging into the depths of No Man's Land? lmao...

Yep, I shall plunge into the depths of No Man's Land to find and cure this problem...

Well... OK, not quite.... I'm going to run a couple jumpers under the hood....

Seriously though.... This door relay is up under the left side of the dash. To get at it requires a midget contortionist with a 4 foot long, very thin arm. So yea... well into the bowels of no man's land.

 

[Aussie 69"]

This is all a bit strange as I too am having problems BUT I do not have door locks etc. The headlight motor relay caked itself before I got the car, some bright spark decided to just cut the wires that control the headlight motor on the engine bay side of the fire wall and run two more wires to a manual 3 position flick switch to operate the covers. Unfortunately that is illegal here and will not be accepted at import to road inspection. I had my local auto electrician have a look at it and yep the relay was absolutely cactus so he rewired it in to a brand new relay same as the old one guess what it makes all the right sounds but the headlights get confused and will not operate correctly, I wonder now if it is the little time delay fuse fixed next to it, so I look and it has a big blob on it, I clean it out no better. This simple set up is driving me nuts!

 

[Aussie 69"]

UGhg!! just checked the coloured wiring diagram from classic car wiring (917)8619131 and it shows the following.....................
green wire from hidden headlight relay goes to a splice to the beam selector switch the other goes to the light switch...simple which one is power?
The black wire goes to a splice to a 5 way.... one to the voltage limiter, one to the brake warning light???,oil pressure indicator???, one to temp indicator hot???, and temp indicator cold and ignition switch. Probably power.
The other two are the up and down wires for the headlight motor.

I am thinking that a normal relay is not the answer, I know that you can use a relay say to turn spotlights on and off but this relay needs to turn the up power on and then disconnect and when the headlight switch is turned off the relay needs to power the headlights down wire then disconnect or am I missing something.

Bob

 

[Big_John]

UGhg!! just checked the coloured wiring diagram from classic car wiring (917)8619131 and it shows the following.....................
green wire from hidden headlight relay goes to a splice to the beam selector switch the other goes to the light switch...simple which one is power?
The black wire goes to a splice to a 5 way.... one to the voltage limiter, one to the brake warning light???,oil pressure indicator???, one to temp indicator hot???, and temp indicator cold and ignition switch. Probably power.
The other two are the up and down wires for the headlight motor.

I am thinking that a normal relay is not the answer, I know that you can use a relay say to turn spotlights on and off but this relay needs to turn the up power on and then disconnect and when the headlight switch is turned off the relay needs to power the headlights down wire then disconnect or am I missing something.

Bob

Yea, the relay needs to both open and close the light doors. I think it's a pretty simple circuit to do and I'll try to sketch up something later when I'm not at work.