How to check if engine is numbers matching, if possible at all?

[Stargazer]

Asking for an acquaintance, is it possible to see if the engine belongs to the car?
It's a 413 in a 1964 Chrysler NY wagon.
Number says V 41, 1018

 

[Big_John]

As far as I know, there is no VIN or other numbers that tie the engine to the car.

You may find a date code though. If the date code is after it was built, or way before it was built, it isn't the original engine. But even a correct date code you can't prove anything.

So, it may be easier to prove it wasn't the original engine, but actually impossible to prove it is.

 

[Toolmanmike]

VIN's started being stamped in 1968 (for the most part) The casting date is as close as you can come. If the casting date is before the SO date on the fender tag, that's as close as you can get.

 

[413]

V is a 1964 engine
41 means 413
10 18 is October 18th that it was assembled.

Does your car have the fender tag? What are the first 4 numbers on the lower left corner?

Might be 1030 to 1118

 

[69CoronetRT]

Asking for an acquaintance, is it possible to see if the engine belongs to the car?
It's a 413 in a 1964 Chrysler NY wagon.
Number says V 41, 1018

1018 is the engine assembly date (EAD) of October 18, 1963. Compare this to the scheduled production date (SPD) on the fender tag OR try and cross reference the Vin to other known SPDs. The EAD of an original engine should be shortly before the SPD. Meaning, if the EAD is mid October, one should find the SPD of car to be about late October or early November. It's possible the EAD is after the SPD but not common.

Relative time between the two matters. If the SPD is well before the EAD, then it's likely not the original. (It's highly unlikely you'd find an October engine in a late August car) It's plausible an October assembly went into a June car but also highly unlikely.

 

[Big_John]

It really comes down to not seeing the date on the engine from behind the steering wheel while driving and having fun.

 

[69CoronetRT]

It really comes down to not seeing the date on the engine from behind the steering wheel while driving and having fun.

Black marks matter. EADs don't.

 

[live4theking]

Black marks matter. EADs don't.

 

[CBODY67]

The whole "numbers matching" deal started in the Corvette community, over 50 years ago. Chevrolet stamped a string of numbers and letters on the "information pad" in front of the rh cyl head, on the block. Engine plant, machined-on/build date, and letters to identify what the engine would be installed into. The letters in the suffix were model year specific, too. THEN, there was teh casting number and date on the lh side of the block, above where the oil filter area is. Plus a hidden casting date code on the bellhousing flange behind the distributor, about the size of my little finger nail. In later years, the last half of the VIN was also on the Info Pad, too, in a separate line of stampings.

On the B/RB engines, it is easy to determine if it is a 350/361/383/400 or 413/426W/440 by where the "info pads" are on the front of the engine. Defined in the factory service manual as to what the stampings mean.

IF you are concerned about "numbers match", you can ALSO check the stamping numbers on the distributor and carburetor! Provided they have not been changed. In many cases, unless theer was a big failure, they were rebuilt and re-used on the same engine as it aged.

1968 is significant as that was the year a HUGE initiative was launched to help stem auto thefts (and related "chop shops") in the USA. The last half of the original VIN was stamped into several other places on the body and the powertrain items. In those earlier times, only "The Fuzz" knew where all of the numbers were, other than the powertrain items. In later years, serious restorers have now found where the 'hidden numbers" reside.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

 

[Stargazer]

Thanks for this input guys! I will pass these answers to him.

 

[69CoronetRT]

1968 is significant as that was the year a HUGE initiative was launched to help stem auto thefts (and related "chop shops") in the USA. The last half of the original VIN was stamped into several other places on the body and the powertrain items. In those earlier times, only "The Fuzz" knew where all of the numbers were, other than the powertrain items. In later years, serious restorers have now found where the 'hidden numbers" reside.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

Thanks to @Big_John we can document that discussion on adding serial numbers to components dates to at least June of 66.

Partial VINs were not stamped on bodies until the 69 model year.

MY 1968 Bodies still contain the Sales Order (SO) number in conspicuous places. The actual location varies by body style.

No previously unknown or 'hidden' locations have been documented to my knowledge. Given the use of SO numbers, they would not hold much use for last enforcement anyway.

VINs were stamped on engines and transmissions for model year 1968 but the guidelines as to when each plant started stamping VINs and the actual protocol of stamping VINs varies by plant or situation. Research continues on this topic.

Full VINs were stamped on engines and transmissions in the first part of the 69 model year. When the 13 character VIN stamping changes to eight characters varies by plant. Some plants stopped stamping full VINs earlier than others but the general consensus is the shorter VINs start appearing in January of 1969. Research continues on this topic.

 

[CBODY67]

Forgive me if I mentioned some things not Chrysler-specific and/or how Chrysler implemented these things.

Thanks for clearing things up as to Chrysler products.

CBODY67