Languishing 300 Letter cars.

crv

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Going through the classified ads on the Chrysler 300 Club International page over the last couple of years, there sure are too many of the letter cars parked up waiting for some tlc, seems the people inheriting these cars have either no funds to spend on them or they have no interest in restoring/preserving them. Some restored examples have been advertised for quite some time at reasonable prices, yet they are not moving, and with less suppliers around, it is less likely people will attempt to dive into what is considered quite expensive cars to restore. To think that there is only one generation, two at best (with some exceptions) separating the usual owner of those letter cars and the typical Mopar on these pages, makes one wonder what the future holds for our C-Body cars.
Some may be interested in reading the classifieds: ads.
 
To think that there is only one generation, two at best (with some exceptions) separating the usual owner of those letter cars and the typical Mopar on these pages, makes one wonder what the future holds for our C-Body cars.
Your question highlights issues with all manner of things held dear by previous generations, not just our cars. Yes, there will always be "car lovers," but issues of taste and practicality generally rule. Just about every family had a piano in the house years ago. A set of fine china was in the dining room hutch, and may even have been accompanied by sterling silverware. Large grandfather clocks announced their presence in drawing rooms with hourly chimes, and every man wore a hat. (Okay, I won't belabor the point with more examples.)
These items are not seen as practical anymore, even if they can be considered tasteful. Few families have space now for pianos or grandfather clocks, and most homes no longer even have dining rooms, much less a hutch.
Our C-Body cars are not practical; they are more likely seen as beautiful examples of goofy excess from bygone times. We've all heard, "I love your car. My grandfather had one, blah blah blah--Oh, look! A squirrel!"
So, while there will always be car lovers, it's natural that tastes will change, and natural that each generation wants its "own thing." How many of us wanted an old Model A when the Forward Look hit the showrooms?
It's sad to say, but I see the future of our C-Body cars as historical artifacts, appreciated as rolling sculpture, and not something to own oneself.
Is it true that this "future" is already here? -- Just some thoughts.
 
When I started (or got brave enough) to take my '67 Newport 2-dr hardtop to a local car cruise with other of our Mopar Club members, parking in the "display" area with them, I heard many of the same "My grandparents had one of these 'boats'. It was a great car." This was in the later 1980s. I had taken pains to keep the original white vinyl roof as soft as I could, the Turbine Bronze paint as shiney as it could be, and add a '68 Dual Snrokle air cleaner to the factory 383 4bbl motor (with an incognito Edelbrock intake and OEM Holley 4bbl on it), with very good and correct underhood detailing. YET most people walked by my open hood, glanced, and continued to walk right to the 440 6-bbls a few cars down the line from mine.

The few who stopped to look did like the car and how nice it was, but then the "My grandparents . . . ." comments followed. Followed by the "boat" comments I did not like, as to me, that implied "nautical" handling, which was much more a GM and Ford trait than a Chrysler trait. So, my car sat "alone" as the crowds were around the 6bbl or HEMI cars near it. After a few weeks of this, I went to parking on the other side of the parking lot, away from the fray. Then, one night when I got ready to take the car back to its place in my storage building a few miles or so away, I found a worn fan belt that had been apparently thrown from an engine, which had landed on the hood, leaving a few sand scratches in the color. That was the last time I took that car to such a show.

When the Letter Cars were more-"alive", they were appreciated for what they were and could do, by almost everyone who knew about them. When the LH 300M cars came out, as great as they were, usually besting the earlier Letter Cars in all performance criteria, the typical 300 Letter Car owner was well into "retirement age". Having lovingly taken care of their Letter Cars for decades.

In more recent times, I suspect that current Gen III Hemi enthusiasts might not know of the Hemi Heritage, other than the Gen II HEMI from the later 1960s, if at all. OR really care about the earlier Letter Cars, either. THEY are the ones very upset with Stellantis for killing THEIR beloved 800+ horsepower cars, not fully knowing the real "why" of the situation, either. Although one key factor, like for the Gen I Hemi, is "production cost". Rather than cost of actual production, Stellantis was purchasing "clean car credits" from Tesla to counteract the poor mpg performance of the Hellcats and such. Not to forget that when tooling wears out, you can keep doing the same thing or you can spend the same money on new engine designs that will go much farther into the future. A future which has changed from the 1990s when the Gen III Hemi arrived.

Obvioiusly, as "bad" as our current USA "economy" might be, there seems to be lots more money available to fund $500K 2500 sq ft new homes "in the country", with $250K+ of rolling stock in the driveway, and 2 high school-aged kids. PLUS the cost of maintenance of such. $3K house payments would have been insane not too long ago, but now seem to be "normal"! So, there could well be "space" in the budget to purchase a Chrysler Letter Car for that 40'-50' metal building on the back of the 2-5 acre "estate", if desired.

The only other thing that has to happen, with the seeming increased interest of "classic cars" is for the Letter Cars to be discovered by younger generations who now have their "updated" '55-model cars, appreciate the styles of that decade of cars, and how much nicer the Chryslers were to start with than their "re-manufactured" Chevies. Realizing that a Letter Car can be a better investment than a customized vehicle, in the long run. OR, for that matter, a similar year Chrysler New Yorker (as many NYs were scavenged for LC parts)!!

To me, the feel of the Letter Car engine firing up, the firm "thunk" from pushing the "D" button of the TorqueFlite, and then the throttle response of the throttle as the car accelerates thorough the gears, normally, can make me smile bigger than if it was a supercharged Hellcat I was in. NOT having to endure the "dealer-gouging" availability charges to own a Hellcat, either!

In ONE respect, driving a forward look car is not too different from driving a similar year Imperial, back then or since. EXCLUSIVITY! Many with "money" (or a good banker) can own a HELLCAT, not fully understanding all of the complexity that can happen after the factory warranty goes away, in the process. To me, it took a different breed of person to own and appreciate a 300 Letter Car, then and now. Plus APPRECIATE it for what it was and IS. From a time when the only other car which might come close was a Corvette.

Hopefully, these things will work themselves out before any of the existing cars degrade very much, having been restored 60 years ago.

Enjoy!
CBODY67
 
When I started (or got brave enough) to take my '67 Newport 2-dr hardtop to a local car cruise with other of our Mopar Club members, parking in the "display" area with them, I heard many of the same "My grandparents had one of these 'boats'. It was a great car." This was in the later 1980s. I had taken pains to keep the original white vinyl roof as soft as I could, the Turbine Bronze paint as shiney as it could be, and add a '68 Dual Snrokle air cleaner to the factory 383 4bbl motor (with an incognito Edelbrock intake and OEM Holley 4bbl on it), with very good and correct underhood detailing. YET most people walked by my open hood, glanced, and continued to walk right to the 440 6-bbls a few cars down the line from mine.

The few who stopped to look did like the car and how nice it was, but then the "My grandparents . . . ." comments followed. Followed by the "boat" comments I did not like, as to me, that implied "nautical" handling, which was much more a GM and Ford trait than a Chrysler trait. So, my car sat "alone" as the crowds were around the 6bbl or HEMI cars near it. After a few weeks of this, I went to parking on the other side of the parking lot, away from the fray. Then, one night when I got ready to take the car back to its place in my storage building a few miles or so away, I found a worn fan belt that had been apparently thrown from an engine, which had landed on the hood, leaving a few sand scratches in the color. That was the last time I took that car to such a show.

When the Letter Cars were more-"alive", they were appreciated for what they were and could do, by almost everyone who knew about them. When the LH 300M cars came out, as great as they were, usually besting the earlier Letter Cars in all performance criteria, the typical 300 Letter Car owner was well into "retirement age". Having lovingly taken care of their Letter Cars for decades.

In more recent times, I suspect that current Gen III Hemi enthusiasts might not know of the Hemi Heritage, other than the Gen II HEMI from the later 1960s, if at all. OR really care about the earlier Letter Cars, either. THEY are the ones very upset with Stellantis for killing THEIR beloved 800+ horsepower cars, not fully knowing the real "why" of the situation, either. Although one key factor, like for the Gen I Hemi, is "production cost". Rather than cost of actual production, Stellantis was purchasing "clean car credits" from Tesla to counteract the poor mpg performance of the Hellcats and such. Not to forget that when tooling wears out, you can keep doing the same thing or you can spend the same money on new engine designs that will go much farther into the future. A future which has changed from the 1990s when the Gen III Hemi arrived.

Obvioiusly, as "bad" as our current USA "economy" might be, there seems to be lots more money available to fund $500K 2500 sq ft new homes "in the country", with $250K+ of rolling stock in the driveway, and 2 high school-aged kids. PLUS the cost of maintenance of such. $3K house payments would have been insane not too long ago, but now seem to be "normal"! So, there could well be "space" in the budget to purchase a Chrysler Letter Car for that 40'-50' metal building on the back of the 2-5 acre "estate", if desired.

The only other thing that has to happen, with the seeming increased interest of "classic cars" is for the Letter Cars to be discovered by younger generations who now have their "updated" '55-model cars, appreciate the styles of that decade of cars, and how much nicer the Chryslers were to start with than their "re-manufactured" Chevies. Realizing that a Letter Car can be a better investment than a customized vehicle, in the long run. OR, for that matter, a similar year Chrysler New Yorker (as many NYs were scavenged for LC parts)!!

To me, the feel of the Letter Car engine firing up, the firm "thunk" from pushing the "D" button of the TorqueFlite, and then the throttle response of the throttle as the car accelerates thorough the gears, normally, can make me smile bigger than if it was a supercharged Hellcat I was in. NOT having to endure the "dealer-gouging" availability charges to own a Hellcat, either!

In ONE respect, driving a forward look car is not too different from driving a similar year Imperial, back then or since. EXCLUSIVITY! Many with "money" (or a good banker) can own a HELLCAT, not fully understanding all of the complexity that can happen after the factory warranty goes away, in the process. To me, it took a different breed of person to own and appreciate a 300 Letter Car, then and now. Plus APPRECIATE it for what it was and IS. From a time when the only other car which might come close was a Corvette.

Hopefully, these things will work themselves out before any of the existing cars degrade very much, having been restored 60 years ago.

Enjoy!
CBODY67
What you wrote about taking a different breed of person is spot on, as FWD Look fan commented on, regarding the pianos, grandfather clocks, etc., people's opinions and tastes change. There's a whole lot of what I consider ugliness in this modern world, from design of cars, modern architecture, clothing, tattoos, etc. Yes, you're correct, it takes a completely different individual to appreciate the beauty in things of 'old'.
 
People don't realize how much money a Letter Car takes to be restored. I restored a G and it was ridiculous the money I put into that car. Need your gauges redone? JC Auto is the only guy who does dome gauge clusters. Need an interior? Its Quirtey, and they charge over 20% more than Gary Goers prices which weren't cheap to begin with. The bumpers were $3k to be rechromed. So when you inherit one, you are quickly over your head and pocketbook.
 
Having grown up (debatable to many) around the Letter Series 300's and now retired, I can appreciate the thoughts on restoring these cars. Having a rough 57 C that has been in the family since new, a J that has been since 1970 and a 4 speed L since 2000, restoring these is not for the weak! Parts are few and far between now and EXPENSIVE when you do find the correct stuff. Just dropped $500 on battery cables, power steering hoses and radiator hoses for the J. "Correct" plug wires for the J which are just about un obtainable anymore, are hundreds of $ for something close but not 100% correct. I was taught by my dad (long time 300 collector, restorer) that these are special cars and should be restored to "as left the factory" state. Right or wrong! I CANNOT bring myself to modify/update any of them. It's a curse, believe me! Getting to the point where even tires are hard to come by and expensive when they are correct. The correct tires for my L are well over $1000 from Coker Tire. I can understand why many "kids" these days shy away from the Letter Series 300's let alone many of the earlier Mopars. It takes a real love of these cars to keep them alive. I may be odd, but I still enjoy setting points, adjusting valves, adjusting brakes. Taking the J to local car shows and having 90% of the spectators looking and having zero idea what the J is and what she represents to the automotive world then opening the hood and hearing the WTH??? is still so well worth it. Let alone with the L hearing the comments about a full size Chrysler with a 4 speed transmission. My rant for the week!
 
Perhaps we are entering an era where it is not justified to restore a car to exacting OEM correctness, but 'merely' to good condition.
 
I do me. In my mind a large car is a great practical car. Anything like a Polara, Fury, Imperial and all others are cars from an era when many people could only afford one car. Transportation was partly that size=quality, and you needed a car to tow/haul and take to work, vacation, etc.

A car that large is now looked at by those with short memories or no understanding whatsoever of the time back then. There were only the Ford Bronco, Jeep Wagoneer, IH Scout/Travelall and a few other trucks that are the basis for what an SUV is today.

Those vehicles were truck-based so they rode, drove, handled and were comfortable like trucks. People did not want that.

I like letter cars myself but I prefer my 60’s and 70s Mopars. I buy a car for me, to own and enjoy and I don’t care about the hammer price at Mecum. I want a car for the enjoyment and use.
 
Population growth and shipping cars out of country may keep interest in old cars. But big chryslers and luxury type cars are pretty low on the list. Many of the young folks I work with think a 70 chevelle is a hilarious tuna boat..
 
It is a "tuna boat" when compared to a Fiat 500. Still does not make it "bad". Put them in the passenger seat, buckled in, of a Chevelle LS-6, and let them see what a "tuna boat" can do. Then hit the road course and let them experience the lateral G-forces, even with the old bias-ply tires. No "tuna boat" there! THEN . . . put them in a '68 Road Runner HEMI with a 3.23 rear axle ratio and head around a NASCAR race track. Watching their reactions, out of the corner of your eye, might be interesting! Especially after they get out of the car to sit down, or just quickly leave. LOL!

Tuna boat? C-bodies are nimble ocean-going yachts, by comparison. That Fiat 500 would be the bobber cork on a fishing line, by comparison.

CBODY67
 
While it is nice to see a correctly restored vehicle. I think some cars are not worth restoring based on their condition. I do most of my own work, so I can work on a car that would be out of range for a lot of guys who depend on shops to do all the work. Some of the letter cars around are in poor condition and a correct restoration would be cost prohibitive. I would rather see one with incorrect seat covers, tires, etc. that is being driven than one rusting away because it costs too much to do it 100% correct. The young people today are not that much different when it comes to cars. Most of us like the cars we grew up with and pretty much the same goes for the younger crowd.
 
The young people today are not that much different when it comes to cars. Most of us like the cars we grew up with and pretty much the same goes for the younger crowd.
I noticed that last sentence to be operative in the earlier 1980s, with the 50-somethings of that time. They were headed toward the '57 Chevies that they had or wanted to have when they were younger. Now that they were older, with the time and funding, they were looking for fixer-upper cars like they used to have. But for some reason, that cycle seemed to stop when the mid-60s cars got to that same age. The cycle stalled or went backward.

Through all of this, there was always the younger guy who wanted a car "like Grandpa had" or it was one they inherited from a grandparent. So, in their younger or middle-age, they are doing the same things we did in the 1970s or so. I see this in the various Facebook car groups. ONLY thing about those on Facebook, their smartphone is their only "computer", so if they recommend a place to buy parts, it's usually linked to a vendor that's on Facebook. The vendors those of us on normal laptops or computers have never heard of these vendors. MUCH less this forum! Or www.mymopar.com or www.hamtramck-historical.com! Their "world" of cars and car info is on Facebook, as if that's the ONLY place they can find the information.

There are a LOT of C-body groups on Facebook, most public but some private. I'm in many of them under a different handle. Looking to see other places I might find some parts or sell some of my cars/parts in the future years. Or maybe find a deal on a pickup truck for the farm. Perhaps "The Facebook Generations" are where the car hobby is headed? That's where the younger people seem to be, not knowing of just how far away from there the horizons of the car hobby stretch on a regular computer!

The Facebook groups are kind of like the early days of the Internet, where every Internet Portal site had forums on cars. Yahoo! in particular. Which tended to replace the earlier Usenet News Groups, which my old WebTV terminal could easily navigate. Time marches on!

Enjoy!
CBODY67
 
I noticed that last sentence to be operative in the earlier 1980s, with the 50-somethings of that time. They were headed toward the '57 Chevies that they had or wanted to have when they were younger. Now that they were older, with the time and funding, they were looking for fixer-upper cars like they used to have. But for some reason, that cycle seemed to stop when the mid-60s cars got to that same age. The cycle stalled or went backward.

Through all of this, there was always the younger guy who wanted a car "like Grandpa had" or it was one they inherited from a grandparent. So, in their younger or middle-age, they are doing the same things we did in the 1970s or so. I see this in the various Facebook car groups. ONLY thing about those on Facebook, their smartphone is their only "computer", so if they recommend a place to buy parts, it's usually linked to a vendor that's on Facebook. The vendors those of us on normal laptops or computers have never heard of these vendors. MUCH less this forum! Or www.mymopar.com or www.hamtramck-historical.com! Their "world" of cars and car info is on Facebook, as if that's the ONLY place they can find the information.

There are a LOT of C-body groups on Facebook, most public but some private. I'm in many of them under a different handle. Looking to see other places I might find some parts or sell some of my cars/parts in the future years. Or maybe find a deal on a pickup truck for the farm. Perhaps "The Facebook Generations" are where the car hobby is headed? That's where the younger people seem to be, not knowing of just how far away from there the horizons of the car hobby stretch on a regular computer!

The Facebook groups are kind of like the early days of the Internet, where every Internet Portal site had forums on cars. Yahoo! in particular. Which tended to replace the earlier Usenet News Groups, which my old WebTV terminal could easily navigate. Time marches on!

Enjoy!
CBODY67
It died off after the 60's cars because of the malaise. I was a teenager in the 80's and the cars were terrible and worse in the 90's with the soap cars.
In the 80's there was exactly 2 cars we walked into the dealer to see. The Grand National and the syclone pickup.
My friends really liked them and they were the fast cars of the 80's but I still thought they should have been V8's.

The car on the inside of my locker door in 87 was a grand sport corvette. The whole article taped in there.


We thought 20 year old cars were 1 old and 2 the world. In 88 68-70 was the primo cars.
I still think that. 57's were way out of reach but we loved em.

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