Looking to rebuild my carb.. Can someone confirm kit compability

[Chryslerdude]

Hey C-Guys

The blue wonder stalls when I put it into gear at idle. It also stalls if I step hard on the accelerator, when under load.. At first, I thought the ignition was "a little retarded", and turned the distributor slightly clockwise to advance it, but this only resulted in the engine being harder to start, and maybe a little better throttle response. Then, I transferred my suspicion to the carb. It's got a Holly 4166-1, and I think the acc pump is semi-bust, and it's probably dirty too, from being parked all them years.




I suspect that it would like a cleaning, and now that it has to come apart, maybe a rebuild as well ? It only has 30K miles (if it's the original), but I am still indoubt if this is a good idea?

I was also wondering if this kit from Rock will be a good choice, and if it will fit. Rock don't write a whole lot about which carbs it will fit, but it looks universal to me. But then again, I don't rebuild a whole lot of carbs...



I am about to place a pretty decent order , and would love to hear if there are better places to buy Mopar'ts from, than Rock.. I have used Rock before, and was satisfied.

Thnx in advance for advise !

 

[cantflip]

Hey C-Guys

The blue wonder stalls when I put it into gear at idle. It also stalls if I step hard on the accelerator, when under load.. At first, I thought the ignition was "a little retarded", and turned the distributor slightly clockwise to advance it, but this only resulted in the engine being harder to start, and maybe a little better throttle response. Then, I transferred my suspicion to the carb. It's got a Holly 4166-1, and I think the acc pump is semi-bust, and it's probably dirty too, from being parked all them years.

View attachment 65418


I suspect that it would like a cleaning, and now that it has to come apart, maybe a rebuild as well ? It only has 30K miles (if it's the original), but I am still indoubt if this is a good idea?

I was also wondering if this kit from Rock will be a good choice, and if it will fit. Rock don't write a whole lot about which carbs it will fit, but it looks universal to me. But then again, I don't rebuild a whole lot of carbs...

View attachment 65420

I am about to place a pretty decent order , and would love to hear if there are better places to buy Mopar'ts from, than Rock.. I have used Rock before, and was satisfied.

Thnx in advance for advise !

Well, you walk down to the parts store and tell them you want a rebuild kit for your application... they pull it off the shelf and you pull out the direction pages which usually list all the carb numbers the kit covers to verify its correct. Can't do that in Orlando anymore either, Denmark... I would be impressed.

I bet there is someone who likes Holley's more than I do here and they will supplement or correct me. I would strongly suggest you get a kit with the blue non-stick gaskets if possible. Holley, has lots of individual P/N identifiers that would require a teardown to find out exactly what you need. No offense to Holley, but our old factory carbs were often made very specific for the application and I have found very little info for the one I have (GM product factory carb) but many of the kits like the one you show have a variety of parts and gaskets to help them work a wide variety of applications. For a maintenance cleanup type rebuild, you should be fine. But you may find there is still stuff you want to replace but don't have. Different float types were used and won't be in the kit. A heavy float will run you very rich. You probably don't have an adjustable needle and seat on the fuel bowl, which means you will really like the non-stick gaskets if you want to take it apart again to clean or recheck adjustment.

I have never been a big Holley fan. They are a tuner's carb from another era... for the guy that knows how to set one up they built a lot of cheap aftermarket carbs and parts varieties to support that use. Those are the kits and part numbers I see online. Factory use carbs are numbered a little different and the Holley guys I know usually match up parts as they go from large tuner selections you and I would never use or want. Most if not all you need is available... but as far as I know a universal model kit like this will get you started and might not cover all you want.
Here are some links to Holley info including the more pertinent numbers for your carb... don't be surprised if you wind up needing a few separate pieces to match your factory build.

http://documents.holley.com/199r10013rev1.pdf
http://documents.holley.com/199r10014rev1.pdf
http://documents.holley.com/199r10015-1rev.pdf
http://documents.holley.com/199r10645.pdf
http://documents.holley.com/199r10684rev.pdf

 

[cantflip]

I did my best to help you find what you need for the carb... and I would consider it a wise investment to give it a cleanup build.

To diagnose any running problems I have adopted a "treat everyone like they know nothing" approach. I truly don't mean disrespect, but a problem I feel sure I could diagnose in ten minutes with the car in front of me takes weeks of unnecessary repairs and parts while someone guesses and hangs parts.

Basic checks, your choice of order... maybe spark plugs last would be wise...

1- engine off, look down the throat of the carb and rapidly wide open the throttle... if you have a good strong squirt, unlikely to be fuel supply or accelerator pump.

2- remove all spark plugs and keep in order... reading spark plugs has lots of online info... basics- good are tan/gray in color at the porcelain tip, black and powdery is rich, white is lean... not sure take clear pictures and you will get responses here.

3-If ignition cables are suspected spray with water while running, preferably in a dim lighting... you will see/hear arcing



Keep them in order... if there is a problem you now know which cylinder



Left rich, minor deposits
Middle, burned clean, normal
Right rich



3 to left are rich, front burned clean, normal

These were not factory correct replacements... often cause issues. The fuel system was very rich the ones that burned clean are basically the only reason I could still start this engine.

This info will help determine a lot... but usually just leads to new tests. Not new parts.

 

[live4theking]

I agree about going with the Holley kit. Check Summit Racing for a kit.

 

[Chryslerdude]

Thanks man.. These were VERY usable and helpful answers!

And of course, NO offence taken in regards to the "basic approach" to solve the problem. I'm just grateful that you took time to reply. If I was easily offended, I would probably not ask any questions, but I am fixing cell phones and computers all day and night, and happily admit that I am very much in the learning phase when it comes to 440's... (and after battling the sequential turn signals for a few weeks, apparently also "car electronics" of that vintage), ha ha..

Only thing I can say to defend my status as a mechanic, is that I WOULD have taken notice of the plug and which cylinder it came from :-D

I did notice that my plugs were very rusty, from inspecting the car from below, and might even be "original".. so I also have 48 plugs in my "cart"..

So far, it's (ACDELCO R43S Professional Gap .035) for the Imp.. but will check my shop manual before making the purchase.



Your first answer (carb), actually made me think again about where to start. And now, I will go through the ignition system first for sure.. including the vacuum advance system (I hope this is what it's called). I didn't even change the fuel filter yet. I can only get measly little plastic ones here, and although being transparent, they would be practical in regard as to show what the gas tank has to offer besides gas, they are simply to small . They too, are in the Rock Auto virtual cart. Both a transparent one for starters, and a the original looking metal ones, for when everything is sorted.

As the exchange rate is currently heading in the right direction, so I WILL be placing this order with Rock very shortly.. Also, I need brake calipers, wheel cylinders, master cylinder, vacuum advance unit, as the brakes are completely shot. Although the blue wonder presented it self well (with help from the auctioneer), the years under the cover has taken it's tow. Calipers are stuck, discs are very VERY rusty, and the master is leaking like a baby (what appears to be liquid rust). Lines look good, but I will be replacing the three hoses, just to be safe.

As soon as I get some parts from Rock (in a few month's), I will update the post here... so thanks for now. Very appreciative for the information!


PS: My hydraulic lift is coming up soon.. had the garage floor re-cast today, for a more appropriate thickness. I wouldn't wanna have the Imperial nose dive into the floor. If that happened, I would never leave the house again! I hope it will be strong enough for the Imp...

 

[SuicideDoorLincoln]

Summit racing has came a long way on their rebuilt carbs now. I took my thermoquad to two different shops to get a dead spot out of it, and keep the seats from leaking. It ran night and day better, but never like new. I ended up spending the $$$ on a new one from summit racing and wow. Its like a brand new carb from 1974... No dead spots, no hesitation, minor choke adjustment and its like a new car. I would highly just purchasing a new one from summit and save alot of headache....

 

[cantflip]

happily admit that I am very much in the learning phase when it comes to 440's... (and after battling the sequential turn signals for a few weeks, apparently also "car electronics" of that vintage)

So far, it's (ACDELCO R43S Professional Gap .035) for the Imp.. but will check my shop manual before making the purchase.

Your first answer (carb), actually made me think again about where to start. And now, I will go through the ignition system first for sure..

As the exchange rate is currently heading in the right direction, so I WILL be placing this order with Rock very shortly.. Also, I need brake calipers, wheel cylinders, master cylinder, vacuum advance unit, as the brakes are completely shot. Although the blue wonder presented it self well (with help from the auctioneer), the years under the cover has taken it's tow. Calipers are stuck, discs are very VERY rusty, and the master is leaking like a baby (what appears to be liquid rust). Lines look good, but I will be replacing the three hoses, just to be safe.

PS: My hydraulic lift is coming up soon.. had the garage floor re-cast today, for a more appropriate thickness. I wouldn't wanna have the Imperial nose dive into the floor. If that happened, I would never leave the house again! I hope it will be strong enough for the Imp...

I'm learning a lot here... my information is more generic in most cases. It pays to post pistures and listen to these guys.

For diagnosis of 12v automotive electrical... Voltage Drop Testing is the only good way to determine problem wiring. Most of the rest should be familiar to you... even if old school.

The factory plugs should be champions, I think. ACDELCO may not provide a fully compatible plug... recheck what exact plug yours calls for, don't trust that the old ones are correct, if your plug is out of production... post a separate thread here to see what others are doing...wouldn't want a half dozen sets of uselessness... plugs are so specific that heat range and resistance variations between brands often cause drivability concerns.

The logical diagnostic process gets tangled between guesses and false hopes... even pros have bad days... you're not in an emergency... take your time and follow logic, thinking all test results through... anyone can do it... learning to take your time and what is the logical path or interpreting test results is what separates a pro.

the Holley links I posted should help you find better application info for your carb... read through them and find all of your carb numbers before ordering. I find Holley's to be sensitive to dirt and the floats like to stick if they sit too long... all carbs have some of that... Holley's are just a little worse IMO. Non stick gaskets are a must if you might ever have to reopen it. Lots of parts variations... make notes as you go through for years later when it needs cleaned up again. In general service mechanics don't really tune these they clean and replace failure/wear components. Start a binder for part numbers and other valuable information... 5-10 years later nobody remember the details. Stay with the direct replacement of all carb parts... these are a tuner's carb and different parts make huge differences... likely for the worse. BTW a spare power valve or 2 couldn't hurt... backfires can damage these but there are many... you'll have to disassemble to find which you have..

If the brakes are that bad, I would consider rebuilding or replacing all I could. Long after hard parts go obsolete, you may find rebuild kits. lines are easy and cheap to make... will need tools and practice to get a good "double flare" but don't substitute anything for the steel lines... use proper steel brake line... cheap and strong. if yours are obsolete parts search here and ask questions. Flush the fluid until clean... it will dirty up again with a little use... flush it after a month or so driving if it gets dirty again... eventually you will get all the crap out of the system. the more you rebuild or replace the less necessary it will be to get the fluid to stay clean. Then 2 year replacement interval for brake fluid is almost universal... and nobody does it.

I'm not a concrete guy, but worked around lifts my entire career. The standard as I understand it is 12 inches deep concrete base required for a 2 post... the 4 post need much less. Get info from your lift manufacturer as to their specs... not worth a few tons falling from 6 feet or more in the air. Your pics didn't look deep enough and may not be enough total area either.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

I would put a kit in it just to clean it up. If it continues to be a problem I would put it on a shelf to go with the car if you ever sell it and order a new eddy carb for it.

 

[cantflip]

I would put a kit in it just to clean it up. If it continues to be a problem I would put it on a shelf to go with the car if you ever sell it and order a new eddy carb for it.

I have been wanting to play with those for a while now... I understand its an old carter design with a couple more adjusting screws to dial in your circuits... is that correct? The only carb I have right now is a Holley and I'm going to have to go through it again this year, but I know form last time to plan ahead so I can track down anything else I want for it.

 

[Dobalovr]

I became an expert on Holley teardowns with several of my 2BBL Dobas. Seemed like once a year I'd have to rip into one. Thats what I'm worried about with the 70-300 which is the same carb as this thread mentions. I put an Eddy on the 66 440 car and it came alive big time easy to adjust excellent response really nice to work with but I'm more into factory look restoration than modification so now I have a conumdrum To Holley or not to Holley...that is the question (at least it isn't a TQ...I hate TQ's)

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Those old factory style holley's are a PITA, warped metering blocks, the stock ones are only like 570 cfm. I was standoffish with Eddy carbs because of bad luck with carters. I like the thunder series because the secondary is on a spring air valve easy to tune and even a 800 will work on a 318 just tighten the spring so it waits to come on like a TQ.

 

[Dobalovr]

Those old factory style holley's are a PITA, warped metering blocks, the stock ones are only like 570 cfm. I was standoffish with Eddy carbs because of bad luck with carters. I like the thunder series because the secondary is on a spring air valve easy to tune and even a 800 will work on a 318 just tighten the spring so it waits to come on like a TQ.

I agree 100% I put the Eddy Thunder Series 1806 with the electric choke on the 66-440 and it has never run better! Think I just answered my own question about the 70-440...screw resto go with what works!

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Yep put it on the shelf for the next owner.

 

[SuicideDoorLincoln]

Those thunder avs carbs are nice but its hard to beat a holley. So easy to change jets and tune on

 

[78Brougham]

I went with the eddy on my 67 Imperial. I figured why waste a hundred bucks on a good kit only to find out it didn't do a damn thing. The car never ran better. The 73 Imperial will be getting one the spring. Do yourself a huge favor and buy a new eddy. $325 here in the states.

 

[commando1]

Edelbrock Performer. 2¢

 

[DasBoot]

Before I bought my Holley 750, I bought and read this book over and over: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1557880522/

Even just my experience with carbs which was ONLY Holley (and a few Kehins from dirtbikes), I was able to tear into my Carter AVS and have a fairly solid understanding of how it worked, despite it being my first Carter.

I would also recommend a "generic" Holley like a 4160 or 4150. Brand new, throttle shafts won't leak on you, overall better experience. Shelf the factory carb until you're ready to sell.

 

[1970cat]

if you ever watch this show, they use eddys on all their 4 bbl applications. must be a reason why one of the top mopar resto shop uses them.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Those thunder avs carbs are nice but its hard to beat a holley. So easy to change jets and tune on

No fuel spill changing jets on a eddy.

 

[cantflip]

There you go... the forum has spoken. Most like Edlebrock...all think new will be less hassle than trying to keep up the old. I would encourage you to research the parts yours needs, and consider a replacement. Nothing wrong with a rebuilt factory piece on the shelf and a driver quality piece under the hood. just don't run gas through a carb and then store it. it would need to be drained and cleaned, a light oil may not be a bad idea.