No spark at the plugs

[Wollfen]

Okay before i start tracing wires and testing, I want to simply put it out there cos maybe my fuzzy brain is missing something simple.
Car has MSD ignition that kicks like a mule when the car turns over, replaced the distributor with a previously working unit, then replaced the ballast resistor twice, replaced the ignition switch too. No spark. Coil? Ideas?

 

[CBODY67]

After I installed the Mopar Perf electronic ignition kit on my '67 Newport, it started right up. I started it about 4 times and all was well. When I tried a 5th time, nothing! Battery terminals looked good, checked for voltage (and it was everywhere it needed to be), but still no start. Got a new starter relay. No change.

I looked a little closer and saw some minor grunge on the battery terminals, but not enough to get excited about. I pulled them off anyway and found a thin layer of "stuff" on the battery posts. I got the cleaner out and brushed the battery posts and the inside of the cable ends. All was now shiny and un-grunged. Car started.

In my case, the starter was inoperative. Later found the red wire out of the fuseblock to not be securely plugged-in on the fuse block.

In your case, the engine turns over? Is the MSD box grounded or attached to a good ground surface?

CBODY67

 

[C Body Bob]

Pick up coil inside distributor

 

[Davea Lux]

Okay before i start tracing wires and testing, I want to simply put it out there cos maybe my fuzzy brain is missing something simple.
Car has MSD ignition that kicks like a mule when the car turns over, replaced the distributor with a previously working unit, then replaced the ballast resistor twice, replaced the ignition switch too. No spark. Coil? Ideas?

First off, take a test light and see if you have power to the coil with the key on. If your have power, have a helper move the ignition to the start position and see if you still have power. If you have power in both cases the hot circuit to the coil is good.
Next, unhook the distributor lead from the coil. Ground out the distributor side of the coil by hooking a wire with alligator clips. Hook one of the clips to a good ground, turn on the ignition and use the remaining alligator clip to momentarily ground the coil. You should get a spark from the coil wire to the distributor, unplug the coil wire and place it about 1/8' from a ground when doing this test.. If you do not get a spark, your coil is bad.

Next, test the pickup circuit from the distributor with a continuity tester. The pickup circuit provides a ground to the coil each time the distributor tries to fire the coil, works just like a set of points by supplying a ground to the coil. Hook one lead from the continuity tester to a good ground. Hook the other to the detached lead from the distributor to the coil. As you have a helper crank the engine, you should get a completed circuit each time the pickup circuit tries to fire the coil. If you do not get a completed circuit, the electronics or the pickup coil in the distributor is bad.

Dave

 

[Ross Wooldridge]

With mine it was the electronics... everything tested and checked OK - so it all pointed to the brand new module.


I replaced the module (different system than yours) and bang!

 

[Ripinator]

With mine it was the electronics... everything tested and checked OK - so it all pointed to the brand new module.


I replaced the module (different system than yours) and bang!

Ya know. . . My points ignition system works fine all the time. . .

 

[Big_John]

First, you shouldn't be using a ballast resistor with the MSD box.

Some good electronic ignition troubleshooting here: Chrysler Electronic Ignition System

MSD troubleshooting: MSD Tech Symptoms - Troubleshooting tehniques for MSD Performance Products

Has this car been running before? Which model MSD do you have?

 

[Ross Wooldridge]

Rip - my points system did too!!

 

[Ripinator]

Rip - my points system did too!!

Seems like a lot of these electronic systems are made in China. And they work for a while. . . And then they don't. I ran into this when wrenching on my old panhead sickle. Coil was real old, so I replaced it with an Accel repop coil. Didn't last more than two riding seasons. Re-installed the old original coil, and it worked fine for many years. And don't get me started on the junk coils, etc. that Crane used to sell.

 

[CBODY67]

One late member of our Mopar club was totally in love with the Jacobs Ignition system. He put one on his '69 Bee and raved about how good it was. I believe it was multi-strike as the MSDs were? One of their claims to fame was there high-temp spark plug wires with ceramic boots, to last in the underhood environment of the 1960s and 1970s era motor homes.

Seems like I recall him spending lots of time on the phone to them, per his mention, about trying different things or what wasn't working right for him? But the car ran well and he was picky. Later, when another member, after constant prodding to do so, got a Jacobs system for his '70 RR 440+6 car. He had many issues with things not working correctly when installed to their instructions. As it turned out, the first guy had had to basically re-wire the whole system to get it to work in his Bee. When the other member ended up doing that, there was no performance advantage, so he took it off and put the Chrysler stuff back on.

The MSD box that I have on the '67 Newport is an MSD-5C. Used to be their basic upgrade to multi-strike for stock motors. That's all I wanted, no need for mega-volt output or such.

Now, in respect to ballast resistors, it might be good to specify "single" our "double", for clarity regarding different model years. On the '67, the only thing I changed was the control box to the MSD-5C in the Mopar Perf kit. I'm using the stock (original!) voltage regulator with no issues. Works just fine for my application. And, contrary to popular belief, I've never had an issue with a ballast resistor on any of the Chrysler products I have driven. Which kind of makes me wonder what I'm doing wrong? OR what others are doing to orchestrate the seeming poor durability?

Just my experiences,
CBODY67

 

[Wollfen]

After I installed the Mopar Perf electronic ignition kit on my '67 Newport, it started right up. I started it about 4 times and all was well. When I tried a 5th time, nothing! Battery terminals looked good, checked for voltage (and it was everywhere it needed to be), but still no start. Got a new starter relay. No change.

I looked a little closer and saw some minor grunge on the battery terminals, but not enough to get excited about. I pulled them off anyway and found a thin layer of "stuff" on the battery posts. I got the cleaner out and brushed the battery posts and the inside of the cable ends. All was now shiny and un-grunged. Car started.

In my case, the starter was inoperative. Later found the red wire out of the fuseblock to not be securely plugged-in on the fuse block.

In your case, the engine turns over? Is the MSD box grounded or attached to a good ground surface?

CBODY67

Engine turns over fine yes, I don't have much experience with MSD ignitions, didn't even know the ballast resistor was not needed. MSD is bolted in tight on the radiator support. The car came like this and I have had to go through troubleshooting another persons work, frustrating process when you are following the footsteps of another.

 

[Wollfen]

Pick up coil inside distributor

The distributor I put in ran fine in my GT. I figured it is something else.

 

[Wollfen]

First off, take a test light and see if you have power to the coil with the key on. If your have power, have a helper move the ignition to the start position and see if you still have power. If you have power in both cases the hot circuit to the coil is good.
Next, unhook the distributor lead from the coil. Ground out the distributor side of the coil by hooking a wire with alligator clips. Hook one of the clips to a good ground, turn on the ignition and use the remaining alligator clip to momentarily ground the coil. You should get a spark from the coil wire to the distributor, unplug the coil wire and place it about 1/8' from a ground when doing this test.. If you do not get a spark, your coil is bad.

Next, test the pickup circuit from the distributor with a continuity tester. The pickup circuit provides a ground to the coil each time the distributor tries to fire the coil, works just like a set of points by supplying a ground to the coil. Hook one lead from the continuity tester to a good ground. Hook the other to the detached lead from the distributor to the coil. As you have a helper crank the engine, you should get a completed circuit each time the pickup circuit tries to fire the coil. If you do not get a completed circuit, the electronics or the pickup coil in the distributor is bad.

Dave

Rainy day today so I haven't touched it but I am going to go through it soon and troubleshoot as suggested.

 

[Big_John]

And, contrary to popular belief, I've never had an issue with a ballast resistor on any of the Chrysler products I have driven. Which kind of makes me wonder what I'm doing wrong? OR what others are doing to orchestrate the seeming poor durability?

I've only ever had a couple of them go bad. It does happen.. Dave had one go bad on the way to Carlisle last year.

That said.... I think it's the least understood, most often incorrectly replaced, ignition component. I see it here all the time... even when there are no symptoms of a bad ballast resistor.

But! I do keep a spare in my cars.. I figure that as long as I have a spare, the ballast resistor won't ever go bad. The day after I take it out, I fully expect the ballast resistor to fail at the worst possible time.

 

[C Body Bob]

The distributor I put in ran fine in my GT. I figured it is something else.

Well you have fire going to the distributor. I have the scar to prove it. At least under the start phase. Do you have one of those plug wire testers. Quickly shows if spark is getting to the plug.

 

[C Body Bob]

A remote starter is handy too

 

[Wollfen]

View attachment 172538
Well you have fire going to the distributor. I have the scar to prove it. At least under the start phase. Do you have one of those plug wire testers. Quickly shows if spark is getting to the plug.

Haven't seen on of these before, I normally lay the spark plug against the manifold to look for spark.

 

[Wollfen]

A remote starter is handy too

View attachment 172539

It's in my workshop, don't ask me where......

 

[C Body Bob]

If you have fire at this test plug then pour a small cup of fuel into the carb throat. It should start. If it hits or pops but won’t start then run a jump lead from pos + side of the coil to pos + side of battery. If it starts up then remove jump lead & remove ballast. Straight wire ballast.

 

[C Body Bob]

Haven't seen on of these before, I normally lay the spark plug against the manifold to look for spark.

This tester you only need to remove the wire. Clip it to ground. Turn switch to on position. Use remote starter so you can see the tester easier