Steering SENSITIVITY issue

[SF-66TC]

I've got a 66 TC wagon and the steering is overly sensitive IMO. I have power steering which increases that sensitivity even more - I can't feel the road at all. The steering responds with the slightest movement L/R of the steering wheel and is especially noticeable at freeway speeds. Around town at lower MPH it's fine, but getting up to freeway speeds 50-60mph it feels pretty scary as if the car could go out of control with the slightest movement from center. I feel like I'm driving on pins and needles needing to keep the steering wheel perfectly straight. All steering has a little bit of free-play, but the steering reponds even within the free-play limits.

Perhaps I'm just use to the manual steering and rack and pinion of my other P/S vehicles. Anyone experience this too? Is there an adjustment in the steering box to tighten my symptom up or is there something else going on here?

This was my dad's car - he got it in 1971. The car has 66K original miles. I just finished a front disc conversion using '73 spindles and CHANGED the UPPER BALL JOINTS, IDLER ARM AND TIE-RODS while I was at it. The lower ball joints were fine.

Steven

 

[polara71]

Pitman and idler arms were ok?

 

[SF-66TC]

Pitman and idler arms were ok?

Replaced IDLER arm - Pitman arm was fine.

 

[polara71]

And obviously had the alignment done?

 

[commando1]

My 67 Newport has as tight a front end as you can expect for a car designed for 1967 standards.
And the handling is scary as hell.
Exactly the way it was then and exactly the way I remembered it.
Come on, now. FIFTY years its been, man !!!

My 76 NYBs front end was rebuilt 110% using the best components and alignment having the maximum caster possible. It still wanders like crazy. Just like the way it did in 1976.

 

[polara71]

My 70s and 71 do not. They are no Metric Challenger but the wheel should stay still and you should feel the road

 

[Wollfen]

It can depend on how the wheel alignment is done, something to do with the castor angle. I'm no expert but if the wheel alignment guy isn't experienced with these old cars then they can set it up wrong. Chryslers do setup different to fords and chevy's.

 

[Wollfen]

I decided to surf the net a bit and I found a good article talking about castor being the issue, it also gives a number of different settings you can do depending on how you want the car to handle, here is the link,
http://www.allpar.com/history/mopar/front-end-alignment.html

 

[Big_John]

Caster and toe are the ones that make the difference.

You need as much caster as they can dial in and no toe out. You also need someone that can do Mopar front ends correctly.

 

[Zymurgy]

The only thing that made it feel right to me was have the steering box rebuilt by Steer and Gear. You can get a "sport" setup. Mine need rebuilt anyway leaked real bad. Probably the best improvements I did on the '66.

I should add mine was the opposite in dangerous to drive. I had a lot of slop back and forh, but had no road feel and very sensitive.

 

[SF-66TC]

The only thing that made it feel right to me was have the steering box rebuilt by Steer and Gear. You can get a "sport" setup. Mine need rebuilt anyway leaked real bad. Probably the best improvements I did on the '66.

I should add mine was the opposite in dangerous to drive. I had a lot of slop back and forh, but had no road feel and very sensitive.

Zmurgy, I was thinking my issue could have to do with the steering box as well. Before the conversion it was already sensitive, but manageable. Now I'd say it's hella scary sensitive. With lack of feel for the road and its sensitivity, a simple over correction could slam me into a wall, another car or send me in circles and that would not be a good thing.

What setup did you choose for your rebuild? I'm assuming your steering was squirrely like mine and the rebuild tightened everything up?

 

[Zymurgy]

Unfortunately it is not cheap I think it was $650 plus shipping. I was lucky enough to find out that it was local for me. That was restoring the pump, the power steering box, rebuilt pitman arm and all new hoses. I have road feel now. Before the rebuild I passed a guy on a country road and it scared the crap out of me, and I was only going from 45 to about 60.

You mentioned being used to a rack and pinion steering. That was me too I have a MGB and it is all about road feel and handling and not the power. This changed everything on my car it drives like a modern car. Now this wasn't the only thing I did, I rebuilt the whole front end, and my 300 came with a front sway bar.

The good thing is you can achieve a very safe well handling car. The end result, the handling of my car, far exceed my expectation of a 49 year old 2 ton beast.

Here is the link and I got the firm rebuild. http://www.steerandgear.com/Catalogs.html

 

[SF-66TC]

Unfortunately it is not cheap I think it was $650 plus shipping. I was lucky enough to find out that it was local for me. That was restoring the pump, the power steering box, rebuilt pitman arm and all new hoses. I have road feel now. Before the rebuild I passed a guy on a country road and it scared the crap out of me, and I was only going from 45 to about 60.

You mentioned being used to a rack and pinion steering. That was me too I have a MGB and it is all about road feel and handling and not the power. This changed everything on my car it drives like a modern car. Now this wasn't the only thing I did, I rebuilt the whole front end, and my 300 came with a front sway bar.

The good thing is you can achieve a very safe well handling car. The end result, the handling of my car, far exceed my expectation of a 49 year old 2 ton beast.

Here is the link and I got the firm rebuild. http://www.steerandgear.com/Catalogs.html

On these Chryslers, do you need to drop and pull the steering column back to remove the steering box?

 

[Zymurgy]

On these Chryslers, do you need to drop and pull the steering column back to remove the steering box?

No. I removed it completely independently from anything else on the car. However by the end of the winter I decided to restore the whole engine bay and had removed the whole front clip.

 

[330dTA]

I experienced the same sloppiness in my '70 NY. Really scary, and something I never experienced in my old man's car back in the day. It used to go straight as on rails, with just the slightest of road feel.
So I had the whole front end redone by a local shop. Moog pitman and idler arms, Firm Feel idler arm bearing set (replaces the rubber bushing with metal), Firm Feel lower control arm boxing plates, Firm Feel 1.06" torsion bars, and Firm Feel tubular upper control arms, as well as rebound adjustable Koni shocks all around. The steering box was original, and needed only a slight tightening (the adjusting screw is on top of the box). The alignment was done to my orders: 0 degrees camber, and "as much caster as you can get".
I can only tell that it made a tremendous difference. Even with old worn tires, and the old steering box still in it (!) - The car went straight as an arrow, and even turned obediently into tight corners in a manner my old man's barge never did.
I will definitely do the same set up for my next project. The only thing I would change is the roller bearing idler arm kit. It transmits too much vibration into the steering wheel. Not a nice thing in a New Yorker.

 

[330dTA]

I forgot one, importat thing: try putting new strut rod bushings in. Use the Rare Parts brand. They have metal washers like the OEM parts have. Avoid Moog here, they're rubber only. The strut rod bushings just might mend it all alone: the strut rod controls the to-and-fro movement of the lower control arm, and the wheel alignment therewith. If the old bushings are more than 10 years old, they are worn, and can't keep the alignment, no matter how well it was done. Effect: no more control in the steering. (All other rubber parts deteriorate in 10 years, too, of course).

 

[SF-66TC]

I forgot one, importat thing: try putting new strut rod bushings in. Use the Rare Parts brand. They have metal washers like the OEM parts have. Avoid Moog here, they're rubber only. The strut rod bushings just might mend it all alone: the strut rod controls the to-and-fro movement of the lower control arm, and the wheel alignment therewith. If the old bushings are more than 10 years old, they are worn, and can't keep the alignment, no matter how well it was done. Effect: no more control in the steering. (All other rubber parts deteriorate in 10 years, too, of course).

THANKS SO MUCH 330dTA! I was thinking of getting Firm Feels upper tubular control arms for the additional caster adjustment. Since most of the parts you got were from FF, could you give me all the FF'S PN#'s you got so I'm sure I would be ordering the correct parts from them? For example, you mentioned the LCA box plates. I see the LCAP3 (plates only) and then there's LCAC (plates installed?). Now did you get the plates only and have the local shop weld them on or did you get the LCA with the plates already welded? It would help a lot if I had the numbers to compare.

When I googed rare parts strut rod bushings they look like the control arm bushings... a little confused so a photo with confirmation would narrow it down - thanks!

 

[330dTA]

Firm Feel is a small company, they don't have part numbers. But they are experts on Mopars, so just give them a call and tell that you need parts for a C-body. It's that simple. - I ordered the LCA plates only, and had my local shop guys weld them in. (Would have been kind of impractical & expensive to ship my LCA's from here to the West Coast, and back.)

I ordered the Rare Parts Strut Rod Buschings through Egge Machine Shop (its in Santa Fe Springs; http://egge.com), but you can get them directly from Rare Parts, too. Part # 15450. (Don't let their web site fool you: they have # 15689 which they claim is OEM equivalent. It's not. OEM has washers in them.

 

[SF-66TC]

Firm Feel is a small company, they don't have part numbers. But they are experts on Mopars, so just give them a call and tell that you need parts for a C-body. It's that simple. - I ordered the LCA plates only, and had my local shop guys weld them in. (Would have been kind of impractical & expensive to ship my LCA's from here to the West Coast, and back.)

I ordered the Rare Parts Strut Rod Buschings through Egge Machine Shop (its in Santa Fe Springs; http://egge.com), but you can get them directly from Rare Parts, too. Part # 15450. (Don't let their web site fool you: they have # 15689 which they claim is OEM equivalent. It's not. OEM has washers in them.

What was your reason for the boxing plates and tortion bar replacements? Boxing plate - more structural integrity? Tortion Bars - For Firmer ride or does that affect roll too?

 

[330dTA]

Well, I had read Rick Ahrenberg articles on Mopar Muscle about making a C-body handle like a modern car. Just wanted to know if it was true. That's the basic reason for going almost "all the way". The only things I didn't have done were a bigger sway up front, and a sway bar to the back.

I wanted to have the TB's replaced because all spring metal fatigues sooner or later, and I figured it would be a waste of time and money to stop half way. - I liked the improved springs very much. They carried the weight (it weighed in at 1200 kg, i.e 2455 lbs) of the front end much bettor, but did not feel too stiff. Just made the front end a lot more focused. The car went were you steered it. Some Mopar guys here who got to drive it praised it to be the best steering Mopar they had ever driven.

The boxing plates were just one component in making the whole front end stronger and more able. Can't tell how much they effected. The overall change was remarkable, however. I must point out, that the supple "New Yorker ride" didn't suffer the least bit. The car just felt much more focused, and the steering very precise.

Mind you, that I didn't change the steering box. Found no reason to. One quarter of tightening up the steering gear mesh took off all the slack.

Otherwise, every component in the front end, that might possibly wear or fatigue, was renewed. The PS pump (Firm Feel) & hoses, lower ball joints (Rare Parts), tie rod ends (Firm Feel, the reinforced tube type), etc.