Stub frame replacement question

[66/440]

Ok this is probably a stupid question but I have to ask.
I have the engine and transmission out of my '76 T&C and I have a new stub frame that has been blasted, painted and the suspension rebuilt. Is there any way to replace the stub frame without removing the front sheet metal? I had planned to wait to replace when I had the car painted but it would be really nice to just get it done now.

 

[Big_John]

In theory, you probably can. You'd have to support the fenders and rad support to keep it from sagging and tweaking the fenders and gaps. It would be a lot of work and planning to keep your supports out of the way when you remove the frame.

Someone else can chime in here, but honestly... IMHO, it would be easier to pull the fenders and radiator support.

 

[saforwardlook]

Not a stupid question.

I am doing that at present with my 1969 Town & Country wagon. I was able to remove the bumpers, inner wheel wells and subframe, leaving the front fenders in place and the radiator support in place to join them together solidly (and using some jackstands to support the fenders/radiator support a little, and the rest of the vehicle up on jackstands beneath the front doors. You of course have to remove the engine/trans. In my case, I removed the trans first from underneath and the engine using an engine hoist after that. But if you have a lift in your garage, you might be able to drop the engine/trans and subframe all as an assembly and go from there.

I want my wagon to just be a nice original driver, but I wanted to go through the drive train and get the subframe blasted and painted plus new suspension bushings, etc. The wagon only has 40K miles on it, but the frame was scaly and I wanted to go through things to freshen the busings and some suspension pieces. Just take your time, go slowly and think while you are doing it. I doubt there is anything about a formal that would be any different.

 

[MrMoparCHP]

The 69 Factory Service Manual actually has this as an option, don't recall the specifics.

These cars were painted with all the sheet metal on the car and no stub frame but that was with no grill...


Alan

 

[commando1]

I would LOVE to see a progress report on it if and when you go this route.

 

[Big_John]

Interesting... I went into my 70 FSM and yep, there's a section on removing it with the body intact.

Knowing that.... I might support the stub frame (with the engine intact) and lift the front of the body by the rad support with an engine hoist.

I've done that with other cars... Just never thought about it with the big C's.

 

[commando1]

Windsor, Ontario Chrysler Assembly Plant (WCAP): 1975 Photos (Cordobas and Chargers)

 

[66/440]

I would LOVE to see a progress report on it if and when you go this route.

 

[MrMoparCHP]

Interesting... I went into my 70 FSM and yep, there's a section on removing it with the body intact.

Knowing that.... I might support the stub frame (with the engine intact) and lift the front of the body by the rad support with an engine hoist.

I've done that with other cars... Just never thought about it with the big C's.

That is what I did on my Barracuda with my lovely assistant (my Niece).

On a C-Body it might be easier with a lift.

Alan

 

[1978 NYB]

Please post plenty of pictures when you do it. And let us know what lessons learned while doing this.

 

[saforwardlook]

Here is where I am at presently on my 69 T & C. Steering column has to come out and a good time to renew the steering box and the suspension bushings and whatever else is needed. Be sure to keep the shim packs under the radiator support and elsewhere (front stub fame supports) properly identified/each stack counted and kept together.

 

[saforwardlook]

The 69 Factory Service Manual actually has this as an option, don't recall the specifics.

These cars were painted with all the sheet metal on the car and no stub frame but that was with no grill...


Alan

I was wondering how Chrysler did them in the assembly plant, so thanks for clearing that up for me Alan!

 

[livininharrow]

Windsor, Ontario Chrysler Assembly Plant (WCAP): 1975 Photos (Cordobas and Chargers)

 

[livininharrow]

Windsor, Ontario Chrysler Assembly Plant (WCAP): 1975 Photos (Cordobas and Chargers)

thanks for the pics stan. my dad worked at the Windsor assembly plant for 25 years. I remember when they used to wrap the entire fence around the property with plastic before the new models would come out so the general public couldn't see them. I was about twelve at the time and the railway tracks were a great opportunity to see the new sebrings and roadrunners. they only put the plastic up for a hundred yards or so down the rail tracks on the west side of the property. I remember vividly asking one of the drivers along with a couple buddies of mine to let it go. I believe it was a butterscotch runner 6 pack. he accommodated us. I will never forget that for the rest of my life. thanks for the shots of the Windsor plant I grew up with.

 

[66/440]

Here is where I am at presently on my 69 T & C. Steering column has to come out and a good time to renew the steering box and the suspension bushings and whatever else is needed. Be sure to keep the shim packs under the radiator support and elsewhere (front stub fame supports) properly identified/each stack counted and kept together.

What is the purpose of the 2x4 other than to protect the AC condenser?

 

[66/440]

Here is where I am at presently on my 69 T & C. Steering column has to come out and a good time to renew the steering box and the suspension bushings and whatever else is needed. Be sure to keep the shim packs under the radiator support and elsewhere (front stub fame supports) properly identified/each stack counted and kept together.

I was thinking about leaving my wheel houses in place for strength. Was there any noticeable sag with everything removed? Do you have any bracing or supports other than the jack stands I can see in the photos? Did you place the stands outboard of the stub frame?

 

[saforwardlook]

If you look at my photos again, you will see a 2 X 4 screwed to the fenders that I used just in case to make sure I wasn't loading things too much when the subframe came out. I really didn't need it. The radiator support held the fenders together well, and there was no sag from the front fenders at all - everything still lines up just fine (and I am going to remove the radiator support to fix a rust hole near the battery area, so it will hold things together when it is out). Yes, the jackstands had to be outside the frame rails just below the front door in order to lower the stub frame. I don't think I even need the jack stands at the front, but I put them there just in case someone, not thinking, might lean on one of the fenders.