1977 440 Redline?

[77newyorker440]

Hey guys,
Does anyone know what the redline or max revs in a 1977 440 V8 is? I am looking at buying a new carb and replacing the Lean Burn, and I read somewhere that the redline was 3600, but that seems way too low to me.
Thanks,
77newyorker440

 

[CBODY67]

For a bone stock motor, I suspect that with a stated horsepower peak rpm in the mid-4000rpm range, past that point, power will be decreasing as rpm might still be inching higher. Once past any real power peak, rpms can still build but power will not. Which can be felt. NO need to get that high, anyway, either!

Carb air flow size? Something in the 625cfm should work just fine for a reasonably stock engine, even a 440. Something like the Street Demon, with the spreadbore bolt pattern, should bolt onto the existing manifold with NO adapters, just the OEM "thick" carb gasket.

Although the smog-era 440s still had pretty decent factory cams in them, with the much-lower compression ratio, aim more for crisp off-idle and mid-range throttle response rather than WOT anything. Thr WOT things should work well, though, but be more concerned with the lower rpm items, especially with a 4500lb+ car with taller tires and (typically) 2.71 "highway cruising" rear axle ratio.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

 

[Davea Lux]

The max revs for the 440std with single valve springs was recommended at 4Krpms, around 3k with the lean burn is where it developed peak torque. The 440HP was rated at 4.4krpms with dampered valve springs. These smog engines had lower compression ratios and were mostly with iron crankshafts, Peak torque was at a lower rpm than the earlier engines. They also in many cases had EGR valves much less aggressive carb settings which reduced overall performance. Adding an aftermarket carb and deleting the EGR will improve driveability, but won't do a lot for overall performance. The low comp ratios are a performance killer. Some additional performance can be gained with dual exhaust and advancing the valve timing 2-4 degrees.

Dave

 

[77newyorker440]

For a bone stock motor, I suspect that with a stated horsepower peak rpm in the mid-4000rpm range, past that point, power will be decreasing as rpm might still be inching higher. Once past any real power peak, rpms can still build but power will not. Which can be felt. NO need to get that high, anyway, either!

Carb air flow size? Something in the 625cfm should work just fine for a reasonably stock engine, even a 440. Something like the Street Demon, with the spreadbore bolt pattern, should bolt onto the existing manifold with NO adapters, just the OEM "thick" carb gasket.

Although the smog-era 440s still had pretty decent factory cams in them, with the much-lower compression ratio, aim more for crisp off-idle and mid-range throttle response rather than WOT anything. Thr WOT things should work well, though, but be more concerned with the lower rpm items, especially with a 4500lb+ car with taller tires and (typically) 2.71 "highway cruising" rear axle ratio.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

Ah okay, thank you @CBODY67. My dad and I always are pleased to see your detailed and explanatory replies. I am currently looking at purchasing this: Holley FR-80458SA 600 CFM Classic Holley Carburetor-Factory Refurbished. I am also thinking about replacing the intake manifold if I run Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, but I may keep the stock one for fear of problems with breather-hood fitment. As you recommended before, I am not super worried about the WOT horsepower, just increasing low end torque so she is a little faster and so my friends stop making fun of the power numbers. I think my Chrysler has a 9.75 rear end, but I am not familiar with what ratio it has, so I will take your would on the 2.71.
Thanks,
77newyorker440

 

[77newyorker440]

The max revs for the 440std with single valve springs was recommended at 4Krpms, around 3k with the lean burn is where it developed peak torque. The 440HP was rated at 4.4krpms with dampered valve springs. These smog engines had lower compression ratios and were mostly with iron crankshafts, Peak torque was at a lower rpm than the earlier engines. They also in many cases had EGR valves much less aggressive carb settings which reduced overall performance. Adding an aftermarket carb and deleting the EGR will improve driveability, but won't do a lot for overall performance. The low comp rations are a performance killer. Some additional performance can be gained with dual exhaust and advancing the valve timing 2-4 degrees.

Dave

Yep, that is my plan, I am going to put new Hooker headers, maybe new heads and a new cam, and definitely dual exhaust, which should help with raising the torque. I believe mine has the EGR valve as it has some linkage and cable on the passenger side exhaust manifold, but I have yet to really look into that as my dad and I have been doing most work at the front end of the engine and on the driver side, along with in the wheel wells on both sides.
Thanks,
77newyorker440

 

[Davea Lux]

Yep, that is my plan, I am going to put new Hooker headers, maybe new heads and a new cam, and definitely dual exhaust, which should help with raising the torque. I believe mine has the EGR valve as it has some linkage and cable on the passenger side exhaust manifold, but I have yet to really look into that as my dad and I have been doing most work at the front end of the engine and on the driver side, along with in the wheel wells on both sides.
Thanks,
77newyorker440

EGR valve is on the intake manifold. There is a vacuum operated heat riser on the pass side exhaust manifold.

Dave

 

[77newyorker440]

EGR valve is on the intake manifold. There is a vacuum operated heat riser on the pass side exhaust manifold.

Dave

Ah okay, thank you Mr. Dave

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Stock TQ was 800 cfm.
A 1406 edelbrock carburetor is good on a stock smog 440
One of the AVS2 edelbrock is a good choice also.
When you get the headers installed on a formal I want pictures please.

 

[LeBaron1973]

Personally, I'd make your car the best she can be like she was when she left the factory.

Considering she's a luxury car weighing around 4683 pounds she'll never be a "hot rod" - let your friends have the hot cars whilst you have the luxurious one.

I wish you many miles of happy motoring once you've sorted everything out.

 

[commando1]

Personally, I'd make your car the best she can be like she was when she left the factory.

Of course I agree

 

[77newyorker440]

Stock TQ was 800 cfm.
A 1406 edelbrock carburetor is good on a stock smog 440
One of the AVS2 edelbrock is a good choice also.
When you get the headers installed on a formal I want pictures please.

I will send the pictures as soon as they are installed, I haven't ordered them yet due to being swamped with school so it may be a little while.
Thanks,
77newyorker440

 

[CBODY67]

The 4160 Holley was used in prior years, but to put it on a later engine (spreadbore carb), it probably might require some additional throttle/kickdown linkage changes to what's there now, which is why a spreadbore carb (as the Street Demon) might be an easier thing to do.

Due to the weight of the car, the gearing and such, it can be easy to over-cam the engine. Making more power at 5000rpm, rather than being a bit more comservative in the cam area, can result in more time spent getting into the power band, which might feel good once it gets there, but take long enough that whatever it was you were trying to impress is much farther down the road. Better to aim more for torque than 5000rpm power. A "torque engine that rpms" would be a better, total, deal, in that respect.

Deleting the egr will improve off-idle throttle response a good bit, from my esperiences, which is good. Be sure to read the rpm range of any cylinder heads you might consider. 1000-5000rpm is usully the best range for a street car, by observation. Don't need the 2.14" intake valves, rather than the stock 2.08" valves unless you're going to be trying to tear up the 1/4 mile all of the time with the lowest ets possible.

When you dig up the cam specs for your motor, you'll probably discover that they are not much different, or at least between, the old 440/350 and 440/375 cams. Which, to me, were pretty good performing cams. The main difference betrween your motor and the prior one is, mainly, the lower compression ratio. I'd just at a double-roller timing chain (Cloyes or Mopar Perf) for good measure and a better set-up than stock. Adding the replacement distributor can help performance too, due to the faster advance curve.

I realize y'all have some dreams about upgrading the performance, but for now, it might be better to aim for the ELB replacement items, using the stock intake for now, adding the berter-flowing exhaust items that REALLY work, and then work on the fine-tuning areas for the sharp throttle response that makes things happen nicely.

FORGET about comparing the power ratings of your engine to a current Gen III Hemi, for any reason. It's torque that lays rubber, not 5000+rpm horsepower numbers. But when it;s at WOT at 90mph and getting ready for that crisp TorqueFlite 2-3 upshift, that'so when you can smile, too.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

 

[Davea Lux]

Also note that any significant increase in horsepower is going to cause problems with the low bypass torque convertor on the 77-78 big block transmission. They tended to run hot anyway and adding horsepower to the mix only makes the transmission overheating problem worse. At the very least, you will need an after market transmission cooler. You also need to consider a better gear ratio to get the extra power to where it will do some good. 2.71 gears are much to high to get the job done for any type of performance build.

Dave

 

[77newyorker440]

Personally, I'd make your car the best she can be like she was when she left the factory.

Considering she's a luxury car weighing around 4683 pounds she'll never be a "hot rod" - let your friends have the hot cars whilst you have the luxurious one.

I wish you many miles of happy motoring once you've sorted everything out.

I completely understand what you are saying, and that is one of the things that I have considered over the past couple weeks, valuing originality compared to performance. My plan is to keep the entire car completely original except for certain parts of the engine bay, but I have been and will continue keeping every single part I have taken off of the car. Therefore, I can always bring the car back to fully stock with all factory parts, plus I can have parts rebuilt if I ever need a part that is no longer sold. Also, that LeBaron in the photo is stunning!
Thanks
77newyorker440

 

[66 Monaco 500 365]

Our '78 Cordoba 400 4bbl LBS ran to 5000, which was 68MPH in first with the 2.45 gears.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Our '78 Cordoba 400 4bbl LBS ran to 5000, which was 68MPH in first with the 2.45 gears.

Mine had headers, it would go 72mph in first leaving it in drive.

 

[commando1]

Mine had headers, it would go 72mph in first leaving it in drive.

Phhhttttt....
A '68 Chevy Biscayne 6 with a Power Glide could do the same thing.
Without headers.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Phhhttttt....
A '68 Chevy Biscayne 6 with a Power Glide could do the same thing.
Without headers.

I did not have to wait till the next day to get there.

 

[MoPar Maniac]

So, when will the question be answered?
What is the factory determined red line for a 78 440?
As it came from the factory, where would Chrysler mark the tach?
Not where you could spin it to depending on x, y or z.
Where would the tach be marked on a factory unit if it had one?

 

[commando1]

So, when will the question be answered?
What is the factory determined red line for a 78 440?
As it came from the factory, where would Chrysler mark the tach?
Not where you could spin it to depending on x, y or z.
Where would the tach be marked on a factory unit if it had one?

Seems to involve a lot of thought process in speculating over an unanswerable question of which there is no point in speculation in the first place.