Two weekends ago, we woke the 69 Newport up. Drove it all day on the 4th, had a blast. The 5th however was a different story. First errand with it, couldn't get it started. When it did start (long crank), it choked itself out. Couldn't even get it in gear before it would stumble out. Seemed like it was starving for fuel. After some help from the FB groups and remembering the scattered parts all over the trunk from last year, folks thought is was the Ballast resistor. Finally changed it out but still had a long crank but would finally start and stay running. Ended up also replacing the Voltage regulator and the Ignition coil. Now it starts better than it ever has for us (bought last August). Also hooked up a tach to see where it was idling at. It's sitting right around 800rpm. This weekend, I'm hoping to replace the fuel filter. Has anyone relocated them before? There is no way I'm getting my hands up in there without dropping the alternator.
Kid got to experience is first Tow in the 69 Newport
- Thread starter ADDGAMER
- Start date
Fuel-related extended crank times existed long before they went to the lowered the alternator location lower. Such things also existed with the former elevated position. Put some ThermoTec wrap tubes over the fuel lines in that area rather than changing the routing of the lines.
Understand, too, that alternators cool from the back, not the front, so the alternator is seeing the same temps the fuel filter/lines is seeing.
As heat rises, convection cooling of the fuel filter area happens after the vehicle is shut off. Cooler air from underneath rather than hotter air through the radiator. Yet in the summer, road surfaces can exceed 150*F, but that is still less heat than the block is radiating.
Have you replaced ALL of the rubber lines between the fuel tank and the carburetor? IF they are anywhere close to OEM, they can be allowing some air into the suction side of the pump, which might be causing your extended crank time, just as a worn fuel pump pushrod can. Those things might well be "out of sight", but should not be "out of mind"!
Can't forget the impact of fuel blends that are past the "wildest dreams" of engineers in the later 1950s, too.
Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
Understand, too, that alternators cool from the back, not the front, so the alternator is seeing the same temps the fuel filter/lines is seeing.
As heat rises, convection cooling of the fuel filter area happens after the vehicle is shut off. Cooler air from underneath rather than hotter air through the radiator. Yet in the summer, road surfaces can exceed 150*F, but that is still less heat than the block is radiating.
Have you replaced ALL of the rubber lines between the fuel tank and the carburetor? IF they are anywhere close to OEM, they can be allowing some air into the suction side of the pump, which might be causing your extended crank time, just as a worn fuel pump pushrod can. Those things might well be "out of sight", but should not be "out of mind"!
Can't forget the impact of fuel blends that are past the "wildest dreams" of engineers in the later 1950s, too.
Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
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I'm not so concerned about temps of the location of the fuel filter, more so the ease of maintenance and getting my hands up in there to replace the filter. Everything looks original. The car is heading off to have a few months of rust repair and they may drop the tank. If they drop the tank, we will replace lines etc while it's down. Also will want to see the inside condition of the tank. The previous owner had ballasts and regulators in the trunk and glove compartment, and I knew it had electrical gremlins that he gave up on. The 14 year and I are learning as we go.
In my experience with these Big Blocks, todays fuel and yesterdays block mounted mechanical fuel pump don't mix well in summertime heat. Do these steps:
* Cover the metal fuel lines that go over the manifold to carb with heat insulation.
* Mount a heat-soak adapter between carb & manifold
* Swap from mechanical to electric fuel pump - pressure should be 4psi - to max 7psi. I did not do a return line and it's fine.
Hot starts will now be a problem of the past (assuming your igniton system is ok).
Highly recommend this mod (i run a stock 383 2bbl).
* Cover the metal fuel lines that go over the manifold to carb with heat insulation.
* Mount a heat-soak adapter between carb & manifold
* Swap from mechanical to electric fuel pump - pressure should be 4psi - to max 7psi. I did not do a return line and it's fine.
Hot starts will now be a problem of the past (assuming your igniton system is ok).
Highly recommend this mod (i run a stock 383 2bbl).
RWCearley
Active Member
Vapor lock is a common problem with our chryslers. Chryslers solution was a special fuel filter. See pics
From what I've seen, the Vapor Separator was not used on everything, just particular performance models over 1-2 model years.
NEVER had any vapor lock issues with my Chryslers. Even in the TX summer heat, back then. NONE. And yes, they were driven normally in the heat every summer with the factory a/c blowing 40*F vent temperatures all the while. 383 2bbl. As there are about 7 different fuel formulations across the USA, in current times, due to location of the particular Ozone Non-Attainment Areas, "gasoline" is NOT such a universal item as it was in the 1970s. What is in Europe also has its own characteristics.
MORE of the USA is getting E10 fuels than might be suspected, in areas which are not in the particular ozone non-attainment areas. Gas pump labelling for ethanol content is NOT universal, as it is determined BY EACH STATE.
The elevation-location of a vapor separator would seem to need to be in a particular location to work, it seems. It will also require a return line to the fuel tank. Like the GM fuel pumps, which had the "return line" in certain applications, there probably is a drilled orifice in the return line nipple's pipe somewhere.
YOUR experiences might vary,
CBODY67
NEVER had any vapor lock issues with my Chryslers. Even in the TX summer heat, back then. NONE. And yes, they were driven normally in the heat every summer with the factory a/c blowing 40*F vent temperatures all the while. 383 2bbl. As there are about 7 different fuel formulations across the USA, in current times, due to location of the particular Ozone Non-Attainment Areas, "gasoline" is NOT such a universal item as it was in the 1970s. What is in Europe also has its own characteristics.
MORE of the USA is getting E10 fuels than might be suspected, in areas which are not in the particular ozone non-attainment areas. Gas pump labelling for ethanol content is NOT universal, as it is determined BY EACH STATE.
The elevation-location of a vapor separator would seem to need to be in a particular location to work, it seems. It will also require a return line to the fuel tank. Like the GM fuel pumps, which had the "return line" in certain applications, there probably is a drilled orifice in the return line nipple's pipe somewhere.
YOUR experiences might vary,
CBODY67
RWCearley
Active Member
When i drove the chrysler up from Texas. to Indiana 20 yrs ago (93 octane no ethenol) it had serious vapor lock issues. I would leave it running when filling up just to avoid the starting problems. At the time it did not have this special filter. It is a 440 TNT.
The Vapor Separator is not a filter. Just internal baffling to "separate vapors" in the fuel line.
In the summer time, prevailing winds in TX are from the south. The bulk of our trips back then, were east to west and back to DFW, headed to/from western TX, but I still had no issues when I angled up north toward Lubbock from I-20, west of Abilene, TX.
In reality, the front fuel line location on the B/RB engine is NOT the only exposure to heat for the fuel system! Do not forget the fuel tank itself! Openly exposed to the 140*F + heat radiating from the road surface on sunny days. Fuel line exposure between the tank and engine is usually shielded by the rocker panel and such. NOT to forget any spray undercoating which might be applied to all of these parts, even the bottom of the fuel tank at the factory.
ALL of the OEMs do testing in the Arizona region in the summer, for its "heat" orientation. Just as they do in Michigan for its colder winter temps, too. For decades. AND, they do "shake down" runs through the western USA and other regions, too. Testing on actual roads with a log book in each vehicle for later reference.
One deviation from the normal Chrysler fuel system configuration was the 1973 Imperials, California-spec cars (maybe some others), which had an auxiliary fuel pump near the fuel tank. A simple in-line pump in a loop of fuel line hose, using the existing body-mounted fuel line. Probably had a return line, too?
The normal fuel system is under vacuum. Fuel cap to fuel pump. Vacuum can result in the fuel getting bubbles in it from such a vacuum. Adding the aux electrical fuel pump back there puts a slight bit of pressure into the mix, which decreases the "bubbling" of the fuel in the fuel line. Many older car owners add them back there, to decrease vapor lock conditions in the summer in slower traffic conditions encountered in travelling to national-level car meets. In conjunction with the normal engine-mounted fuel pump. Many of my Buick friends have such things on their '55 Buicks, which have always been prone to vapor lock issues, since new.
Whatever works,
CBODY67
In the summer time, prevailing winds in TX are from the south. The bulk of our trips back then, were east to west and back to DFW, headed to/from western TX, but I still had no issues when I angled up north toward Lubbock from I-20, west of Abilene, TX.
In reality, the front fuel line location on the B/RB engine is NOT the only exposure to heat for the fuel system! Do not forget the fuel tank itself! Openly exposed to the 140*F + heat radiating from the road surface on sunny days. Fuel line exposure between the tank and engine is usually shielded by the rocker panel and such. NOT to forget any spray undercoating which might be applied to all of these parts, even the bottom of the fuel tank at the factory.
ALL of the OEMs do testing in the Arizona region in the summer, for its "heat" orientation. Just as they do in Michigan for its colder winter temps, too. For decades. AND, they do "shake down" runs through the western USA and other regions, too. Testing on actual roads with a log book in each vehicle for later reference.
One deviation from the normal Chrysler fuel system configuration was the 1973 Imperials, California-spec cars (maybe some others), which had an auxiliary fuel pump near the fuel tank. A simple in-line pump in a loop of fuel line hose, using the existing body-mounted fuel line. Probably had a return line, too?
The normal fuel system is under vacuum. Fuel cap to fuel pump. Vacuum can result in the fuel getting bubbles in it from such a vacuum. Adding the aux electrical fuel pump back there puts a slight bit of pressure into the mix, which decreases the "bubbling" of the fuel in the fuel line. Many older car owners add them back there, to decrease vapor lock conditions in the summer in slower traffic conditions encountered in travelling to national-level car meets. In conjunction with the normal engine-mounted fuel pump. Many of my Buick friends have such things on their '55 Buicks, which have always been prone to vapor lock issues, since new.
Whatever works,
CBODY67
RWCearley
Active Member
I can think of no better way to burn up a starter motor than by vapor lock. Hopefully when i install this filter it will solve the problem. If not, will try other methods.
First thing, don't bother asking on Face Book. The dumbasses that have no clue always say "ballast resistor" for everything that could possibly go wrong. I think if you couldn't get the glove compartment open, they would say it was the ballast resistor.
With a ballast resistor failure, it will start with the key turned to engage the starter and then shut off as you release the key. It won't run rough, it just plain won't run. A lot of folks don't seem to understand this. I've had more Mopars than most and in almost 55 years of owning them, and many, many thousands of miles, I've had one or maybe two ballast resistor failures.
Voltage regulator has no bearing on how it runs. That's simply if the alternator is charging the battery like it should or not. I think more of those are replaced for no reason than are replaced for a true failure.
I'll give you it could have been the coil. Hot start problems could be the coil, but it sounds like you may have a fuel issue.
Changing the fuel filter is pretty easy. Go up from the bottom rather than the top. If you really think you need to pull the alternator, it's not that hard. In fact, you could remove the wiring, loosen the top bolt, take out the bottom, and just swing it up out of the way, leaving it in the bracket. Tighten the top bolt to hold it in place. Since it appears this car has maybe sat for a while or is new to you, you probably should replace the belts anyway, so that would be a good time to do that.
coming up on a year of ownership for us but I only drove it for 3 months last year before putting it in storage for the winter (NH), so we are finally seeing and dealing with issues as they pop up. Last summer was the alternator where we switched to a 1 wire and even then we had issues where the pressed on pully shot off (Murphy's Law). The manufacturer was shocked but the return for a new one was painless. After that was replaced, it charged fine, ran fine. This coming weekend, now that it's running, my kid will start to tackle the rust repair with his step father who is a welder by trade, so it will be out of commission for a few weeks. While it's down and cut up, the neighbor across the street where my kid lives has offered to rebuild the carburetor with him as well. We will keep chipping away at it. I've waited 10 plus years to find one of these, so I'm fine taking my time and learning as we go.
If you went to a 1 wire alternator, why did you replace a voltage regulator? The 1 wire has a voltage regulator built in so you don't need an external regulator.
I've never been a fan of the 1 wire alternators myself, but that's another story.
Full honesty, I'm learning as I go. There was a pile of old ones in the trunk last year and the one on the fire wall was hanging off, so we just went left to right. The previous owner disclosed the electrical gremlin problem as a major reason for selling and recommended the 1 wire route. What's the saying, one man's project can be another man's nightmare.. Last time I had a 60's era car was back in 99/2000 where I had a 66 Mustang, so I've been out of the game for quite some time.
Another check is where your initial timing is set. You will find the car starts faster when the timing is where the engine wants it and not what the book says. And by 1976 vapour return fuel filters were used on all the Chryslers. Wix 33040
My now-55 year old 70 300 Hurst with TNT motor lives in TX and has the fuel filter in the stock location with no issues of drivability. Since it barely gets 2000 miles per year, the 'simple maintenance' of replacing it and its associated rubber lines happens about once ever 10 years, whether it needs it or not. ;-)
we replaced the filter this weekend. raised the alternator up and got it out. the old rubber lines had to be cut off due the horrible condition they were in (at the pump and the hard line). Put it right back in the stock location and to our surprise, the car started right up on first turn of the key. Drove it in the 90+ heat to where it will be for the next few months for some rust repair.
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