1968 Fury III 2door HT, 383, TF - Rear brake drum and brake shoe problem 11x2" (probably)

[Matze]

Hi, everybody,
I have already checked the other threads regarding brakes and sizes. It didn't help im my case.

I have a new 8.75 rear end which I bought off of eBay (already in 2022 but had no time to do it.)
Now it's in, everything fits nicely except the brakes. The left side seems to work fine but the right side is always dragging (you can see from all the brake dust in the pictures).

The drums are finished and the shoes are about to be.

I need new brake drums, shoes and when I'm at it, I will also swap the wheel cylinders.
The axle comes either from a Fury or a Challenger between 66 and 69. I can't remember and the seller does not reply anymore, which is a real pain.

Now I have to figure out what brakes I can buy. It is an 11" brake (max. inner dia. 11.08" is what the drum says) and it fits correctly on the backing plate but I'm not sure whether all parts he gave me belong together.
I installed the used shoes and used drums with a new hardware and self adjuster kit. It may be possible, that I used one wrong spring on the adjuster.

The shoes are exactly 2" wide. The brake drum has 2.5" inside but since it moves a little into the backing plate, this will probably be a 2" drum. What makes me wonder is the fact, that it has about 1/4" play on the outer side that is not used by the brake shoe. This looks like too much play since the outer wall of the drum needs to hold the shoes in place to prevent tilting and uneven wear.

The two bumps on the back of the backing plate are sticking out. According two some YT videos, this is an indicator for a 2" backing plate.

The shoes look kind of small and are not evenly centered. It looks like the front shoe is always dragging and the rear show needs a lot more way to get to the drum. maybe the shoes are not 11 but 10". The shoes feel kind of wrong. Could they be 10" or wouldn't they fit at all?
I wanted to to post a video but don't know how. Can somebody help? Or should I upload it to my cloud and send a link in here?

For all I know, I have an 11X2" brake. Which is a real pain, because I cannot find any parts for it. So if anybody has ideas where to get them or, even better, some 2,5" backing plates, I'd like to change the whole system.

Can you help me to determine the correct size and help me out with parts? Maybe you see something from in the installation. Please let me know.

You'll find a lot of pictures enclosed. Apologies in advance; I'm, from Germany and have only metric measuring devices.
I forgot to take a picture from the outside of the drum. It has a smooth surface, not finned.

Thank you so much for your help!!!

 

[volksworld]

all of the 68 Fury's I have owned have 11x2 shoes...most of the shoe listings I see out there are for 11x 2.5 as fitting our cars but I believe that is because they are out of stock on 11x2 but still have 11x 2.5 available in their inventory...11x2.5 came on station wagons in 68 and may have been optional on police packages etc...looking at your pictures I see the primary shoe end not contacting the top post...it should...a seized wheel cylinder that wont retract completely or a seized or overtightened parking brake cable could cause that, or even an internally clogged rubber hose to the rear end...i believe there should also be a washer that's pointed on both ends that fits on the upper post between the shoes and springs to keep the edge of the shoe from slipping off the post and hitting the smaller diameter part of the post that the springs hook onto...pretty sure the shoes are #334...the missing part up top is similar to the next pic although I think it's one from my chevy stash not mopar

 

[volksworld]

 

[Matze]

Thanks for your reply and sorry for the typos. I just realize how many they are and corrected them.

I know about the washer problem. I’m trying to get some.

I know about the problem with the upper post. This looks like a problem coming from the wheel cylinder.
When I push it against the upper post, the lower part starts moving even closer towards the drum. That’s why I first thought those are 10 inch brake shoes.

The hose and brake fluid are new so it shouldn’t be clocked.

The problem is that I need 2 1/2 inch packing plates to change the system and I can’t find them either. And if I do, I have to sell a kidney for them.

I also realized the different videos that the retaining spring on the self adjuster looks different than mine. I have several springs left over. One pair of them look like they could fit.

I’m still wondering about the play between the outer wall of the drum and the brake shoe. Is this normal?

 

[MoPar~Man]

@Matze see this:

Front Drum Width

Can anybody help me figure out what size drum/shoe combo these drums are for? It’s off a 66 Fury III 4Dr 318 A/T with known 2 1/2 rears. Lip to lip they’re measuring about 3 1/8”. The dilemma is that the front drivers side is a separate drum, the passenger is still swaged like from the factory...

www.forcbodiesonly.com

 

[3175375]

Maybe @mobileparts (Craig) can help you with the shoes. I believe he’s running low on stock and he may be able to get you the washer that you’re missing.

 

[Matze]

@Matze see this:

http://[URL]https://www.forcbodiesonly.com/mopar-forum/threads/front-drum-width.89159/#post-1269970

[/URL]

This helps a helluva lot. THANKS! Finally the confirmation, that my drums are really 2" not 2.5".

What do you guys think of swapping to discs? I know, it's discussed a lot and everybody has another opinion. But since I will have to pay around 500+ for all the other components including shipping, customs and tax, why not go to discs and I'm done.
I have bought the car with front disc brakes and 15" rims. So stepping down to original 14" is not going to happen.
Some offers say I have to change bearrings. This would be a pain. I let a shop change bearring als seals from the axle just a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Blusmbl]

Doctor Diff has a kit that allows use of the original style tapered bearings for the rear. Most switch over to green bearings.

 

[Matze]

Since I just renewed the bearings and seals I'd love to stay with them. But I like the idea of not having to care about the backlash adjustment as well.

Best thing would be just to get all 11x2 parts for a fair price but about 280.00 + s/h, tax, customs only for the two drums is really a pain. Then I still need to find the right shoes. I checked several more shops again. Looks like I have to go with disc brakes.

@mobileparts can you help me out here?And another question: Are the wheel cylinders, self adjuster (i have the older version) and hardware kits from 11x2.5 and 11x2 the same?

 

[MoPar~Man]

Doctor Diff has a kit that allows use of the original style tapered bearings for the rear. Most switch over to green bearings.

Is their adjuster adapter plate kit really necessary? Seems like a lot of work, taking the original bolts out, I've seen a video where the replacement bolts are a loose fit (not press-in).

Does the adapter plate take an outer seal?

 

[mobileparts]

Matze ,
I have the Brake Drums , the Brake Shoes , the Wheel Cylinders , and all the Brake Hardware… for the 11 “ x 2 “ and for the
11 “ x 2 1/2 “….

The Brake Hardware / “ Combi “ ( short for “ Combination “ ) kits
ARE different for 11 “ x 2 “ versus 11 “ x 2 1/2 “ , the Brake
Self - Adjuster Kits , Left and Right are mirror images , but all
11 “ are the same…. 1965 - 1968 is the Early Design ,
1969 - 1973 is the Later Design …..

The VERY VERY Best Brake Shoes on the Planet are ***N.O.S.*** Asbestos *** —- the softest , smooooooothest braking system known to mankind , but you need to find out whether you can import those Brake Shoes into Germany !!!!

( You don’t need a hefty fine and confiscation—- for doing so , like in Australia and New Zealand !!!! )

If that is the case , I CAN supply you with NON - Asbestos
Rear Brake Shoes……

Let me know —- Yours, Craig…..

 

[Blusmbl]

Is their adjuster adapter plate kit really necessary? Seems like a lot of work, taking the original bolts out, I've seen a video where the replacement bolts are a loose fit (not press-in).

Does the adapter plate take an outer seal?

I’m not sure, I haven’t used his kit- just have bought a couple dana 60’s from him and have been happy with everything he sells. My car has a set of Wilwood discs on the rear but I don’t recommend them for daily driver use type vehicles.

 

[cudamark]

Thanks for your reply and sorry for the typos. I just realize how many they are and corrected them.

I know about the washer problem. I’m trying to get some.

I know about the problem with the upper post. This looks like a problem coming from the wheel cylinder.
When I push it against the upper post, the lower part starts moving even closer towards the drum. That’s why I first thought those are 10 inch brake shoes.

The hose and brake fluid are new so it shouldn’t be clocked.

The problem is that I need 2 1/2 inch packing plates to change the system and I can’t find them either. And if I do, I have to sell a kidney for them.

I also realized the different videos that the retaining spring on the self adjuster looks different than mine. I have several springs left over. One pair of them look like they could fit.

I’m still wondering about the play between the outer wall of the drum and the brake shoe. Is this normal?

Yes, the wear pattern and extra drum surface look correct. BTW, those brakes are the same as the '65-71 D100 pickups. Sometimes it's easier to find in the catalogs.

 

[ynst]

The shoes should seat on the pin. Yours aren't and it appears that the parking brake bar is holding the shoe out away from anchor the pin.

Your parking brake is adjusted too tight, or maybe the cable is seized. That's causing the leading edge of the front shoe to engage with the drum. As soon as that happens, the servo action takes over and the rotation of the drum causes the front shoe to push the trailing shoe against the pin and into the drum.
The leading edge of the front shoe indicates that this has been going on for quite a while.

Back off on the parking brake adjuster and see if the cable retracts and the shoe rests on the pin.
If it doesn't, replace the cable.

You can try taking the cable out and working a good penetrating oil into the cable sheath to free it up and then keep working the cable back and forth until it moves freely.
Dribble some thin weight oil into your freed-up cable and re-install it.
Good penetrating oils include: Kroil, a 50/50 mixture of Marvel Mystery oil and acetone (once mixed, it's only good for a short time as the acetone will evaporate but it is, by far, the best penetrate you can use), or any of the other PENETRATING oil brands.
Standard WD-40 is NOT a penetrating oil, BTW. It is a water displacement formula that leaves a deposit on whatever you spray it onto. If you're looking at the WD-40 brand, make sure you're looking at their "penetrating oil" formula, not straight WD-40.

With the shoes sitting on the pin, install the brake drum and adjust the star wheel at the bottom.

When you get all that done, THEN adjust the parking brake cables.

 

[MoPar~Man]

Here we have Dynamic Friction 36540038 and FVP 12363016.
Taken from Rockauto 1971 Dodge W100 Pickup 318.

Dynamic friction is Rear, 2 inch shoes. The info page for this part shows hardly any specs, doesn't show bolt circle or drum width. For some reason, 2" drums have 5.5 inch bolt circle.

The FVP is Rear, 2.5 inch shoes, the info page says friction width is 2.93 inches, subtract 3/8 according to my formula, gives 2.55 inches (so yes, 2.5 inch shoes). 4.5 inch bolt circle.

The Centric 12363008 is listed for the Dodge and Plymouth C-bodies (not Chrysler) 1969 - 1975. Rear. So Monaco / Polara / Fury / Gran Fury - AND D100 Pickup. That's all. 4.5 bolt circle, 2.59 inch friction width. 2.59 - 3/8 is 2.2 inches. Odd. Might this work for the slabs with 2" rear? $52 USD.

 

[volksworld]

finally got around to some measuring....the rounded edge of the backing plate to the edge of the leaf spring with 2 1/2 shoes is 60mm...with 2 inch its more like 75mm....yes they both have the same bumps for the handbrake cable but the 2 1/2 setup is recessed more....pretty sure wheel cylinder is the same for either size shoe

 

[Matze]

Thanks for all your replies! They were really helpful

I read them all and gave some reactions but I was tied up with a lot of work last week and had no time to write a proper reply. So here goes now:

Bottom Line:
I would like to change to discs with green bearings because it's mostly carefree, but this is absolute nonsense at this time so I won't do it.

Reasons:
I can assemble the drums and shoes myself with a little help from a mechanic with the cylinders (just to feel safer, because I have never done that) and use the recently (really just a couple of weeks ago) renewed seals and tapered bearings. Hence, cheaper parts and saving a lot of money for wages at the shop.
Changing to disc is a job I would completely give to a shop. So on top of the more expensive parts (with new bearing again) comes the salary plus: the buttload of money I paid for the new bearing would be for nothing.

The car moves about 1500 mls/yr. When I change the cylinder, drums and shoes now, this will be finde for the next couple of years, I guess.

The parking brake has been mentioned a couple of times now. I will adjust it and see what's happening.

BTW: I found the washers for the shoes When I assembled the brakes some time ago, I watched a tutorial that did not mention them. So I didn't know what to do with them at the time and threw them in a "could be useful some day"-box.

@MoPar~Man I found them as well but the hole pattern on the 11x2 won't fit. The 8.75 has a standard 4.5" hole pattern (or hasn't it?).

@ynst Thanks for that. I will take care of the whole parking brake system.

@mobileparts Craig, would you be so kind as to make an offer for cylinder, shoes, drums and optional hardware kit and adjuster. just to make sure I have all the right parts. Including s/h to Germany. This would be nice, thanks in advance. BTW: Asbestos is not an option since 1993

Looks like we are getting somewhere.

Thanks again. Have a nice week, y'all.

 

[3175375]

Thanks for all your replies! They were really helpful

I read them all and gave some reactions but I was tied up with a lot of work last week and had no time to write a proper reply. So here goes now:

Bottom Line:
I would like to change to discs with green bearings because it's mostly carefree, but this is absolute nonsense at this time so I won't do it.

Reasons:
I can assemble the drums and shoes myself with a little help from a mechanic with the cylinders (just to feel safer, because I have never done that) and use the recently (really just a couple of weeks ago) renewed seals and tapered bearings. Hence, cheaper parts and saving a lot of money for wages at the shop.
Changing to disc is a job I would completely give to a shop. So on top of the more expensive parts (with new bearing again) comes the salary plus: the buttload of money I paid for the new bearing would be for nothing.

The car moves about 1500 mls/yr. When I change the cylinder, drums and shoes now, this will be finde for the next couple of years, I guess.

The parking brake has been mentioned a couple of times now. I will adjust it and see whats happening.

BTW: I found the washers for the shoes When I assembled the brakes some time ago, I watched a tutorial that did not mention them. So I didn't know what to do with them at the time and threw them in a "could be useful some day"-box.

@MoPar~Man I found them as well but the hole pattern on the 11x2 won't fit. The 8.75 has a standard 4.5" hole pattern (or hasn't it?).

@ynst Thanks for that. I will take care of the whole parking brake system.

@mobileparts Craig, would you be so kind as to make an offer for cylinder, shoes, drums and optional hardware kit and adjuster. just to make sure I have all the right parts. Including s/h to Germany. This would be nice, thanks in advance. BTW: Asbestos is not an option since 1993

Looks like we are getting somewhere.

Thanks again. Have a nice week, y'all.

You need to call Craig. He works great on the phone.

 

[Big_John]

The car moves about 1500 mls/yr. When I change the cylinder, drums and shoes now, this will be finde for the next couple of years, I guess.

At 1500 miles per year, you'll be good for the next 20 years, probably more.

On one car, I got over 100K miles on the original rear drum brakes, but I usually got 60K miles on rear drums at minimum. When I started driving cars with rear discs, that changed dramatically with a lot less miles before needing replacement.

 

[Matze]

At 1500 miles per year, you'll be good for the next 20 years, probably more.

On one car, I got over 100K miles on the original rear drum brakes, but I usually got 60K miles on rear drums at minimum. When I started driving cars with rear discs, that changed dramatically with a lot less miles before needing replacement.

Maybe it's 2000, 2500 tops with a lot of rentals and a good summer. It's one of three vintage cars I own for personal use and some wedding rentals. So it's really no big deal.