saylor
Senior Member
For Sale 1968 Plymouth Fury Barn Find
- Thread starter Paul Amato
- Start date
- Status
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
A blank canvas! Awesome! The possibilities are endless on this car.
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
Where are you.View attachment 133067 i have not actually SEEN or TOUCHED the car yet,, im so far away from TX right now - im where these things come from... these are called 'little necks' i have no idea why. commando will know
Littlenecks are tough, rubbery, elastic bands from off the polutted all to hell Mid Atlantic States coast. Can't even use them for bait.
How are they?
saylor
Senior Member
yes that is EXACTLY where i am commando lol. im in rhode island - in warwick staying, but working in exeter. went to chelos on the water tonight for dinner. dude there is so much salt/rain/moisture up here even the license plates are rusty. WTH. i told the dudes im working with that there are more states south of here that dont live like this...
saylor
Senior Member
its not warwick, its 'waaarik'.
its not greenwich, its 'greenich'
its not wal- mart, its 'wol maaat'
im so lost. a stranger in a strange land. they do not say 'yall' up here.
i dont even know what a 'scrod' is. the waitress knew i was not from around here...
its not greenwich, its 'greenich'
its not wal- mart, its 'wol maaat'
im so lost. a stranger in a strange land. they do not say 'yall' up here.
i dont even know what a 'scrod' is. the waitress knew i was not from around here...
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
Oh, man. GetTH out of Wah-wik. That area is is a shihole. If you don't eat at any of the restaurants up on Federal Hill in Providence, you'll miss a damn good Italian dinner.
saylor
Senior Member
hey boss i finally made it home and got to quickly look at the car yesterday, like seriously for only about 5 minutes, but so far so great. i hope to really inspect it today, but so far it looks like i have some first world problems to worry about
can anyone elaborate on the differences between equipped parts and the trim lines in 1968? were there like parts groups/packages like when ordering a car today? or was it a total 100% free for all on what trim options I could select?
What I mean is like, the fury III I have has front bumperettes. This SportFury does not. But if you look at pics of other SFs out on the net, some do have bumperettes. others do not. some have wheel skirts. some do not. some have a passenger side mirror. some do not. Some have a low body line rocker panel trim. Some have a belt line trim. other have no side trim at all. some have a 'commando v8' plaque on the side, some have a red/white/blue block there. etc. etc. on almost every part I have considered, I can find an example of "with" and "without".
anyways - my first world problem. do i take all that is good from both cars and build one that has 'every' available option installed?
then its not 'original' to day 1 when it was born. if i took a bench seat out and added buckets. or vice versa and added electric bench seats. or added a belt line trim. or bumperettes and a passenger side mirror. all great options. not original to the car. original options. or HP headers. etc.
does any of it even matter lol? now that im reflecting on the above ^^, i guess I make the changes that I want to make and proceed
like I said, first world problems...
- saylor
can anyone elaborate on the differences between equipped parts and the trim lines in 1968? were there like parts groups/packages like when ordering a car today? or was it a total 100% free for all on what trim options I could select?
What I mean is like, the fury III I have has front bumperettes. This SportFury does not. But if you look at pics of other SFs out on the net, some do have bumperettes. others do not. some have wheel skirts. some do not. some have a passenger side mirror. some do not. Some have a low body line rocker panel trim. Some have a belt line trim. other have no side trim at all. some have a 'commando v8' plaque on the side, some have a red/white/blue block there. etc. etc. on almost every part I have considered, I can find an example of "with" and "without".
anyways - my first world problem. do i take all that is good from both cars and build one that has 'every' available option installed?
then its not 'original' to day 1 when it was born. if i took a bench seat out and added buckets. or vice versa and added electric bench seats. or added a belt line trim. or bumperettes and a passenger side mirror. all great options. not original to the car. original options. or HP headers. etc.
does any of it even matter lol? now that im reflecting on the above ^^, i guess I make the changes that I want to make and proceed
like I said, first world problems...
- saylor
saylor
Senior Member
damn bro thats a whole lotta car. me and my homeboy just crawled all thru it. all in all i do think its in better shape than my III. looked really clean under the breather no molerat ever moved in. dash looks really untouched. looks like factory valve covers etc. heater core pipes still poking out thru firewall, etc.
everything that looks bad on this, i think i have on the other car. like a nice bumper. or a dented trim piece. etc. if i take everything off my III thats good and move it over it would be muy especial but - what do yall think about the front brakes? I have these factory disc, with NICE disc brake wheel covers, or the aftermarket ECI kit with drum to disc conversion available to me for use. damn. decisions.
everything that looks bad on this, i think i have on the other car. like a nice bumper. or a dented trim piece. etc. if i take everything off my III thats good and move it over it would be muy especial but - what do yall think about the front brakes? I have these factory disc, with NICE disc brake wheel covers, or the aftermarket ECI kit with drum to disc conversion available to me for use. damn. decisions.
ws23jrt
Member
I'm glad to hear you are generally pleased with what you found. It speaks to our communication being good. (always a tough one with a remote buy).
If you decide to turn your fury III into a parts car and toss whats left--I see it as an easy plan forward.
Keeping both cars alive is what you must be struggling with.
IMO the front end suspension and brakes need to come apart anyway because (as far as I was able to determine it is original/50 years old. Maybe ---at that inspection point --determine if it would do you well to swap your working system to this car.
Another opinion of mine-- is to resist the temptation to keep the sport fury all original. The value of that is a mind game with bragging rights only that have no or little payback unless it is a super rare car or a --GENUINE--"Survivor".
fury fan
Senior Member
- Bumperettes are typically optional -- my 68 F3 does not have them, while your F3 does.
- I would think fenderskirts would tend toward the F3 and not the Sport, but haven't paid enough attention. Might be optional on both?
- Pass-side mirror is almost always optional, for most years/models.
- Rocker panel trim is Sport only, I believe.
- Belt trim will be F3 only, and the insert comes either black-textured or painted white (I do not know what drives the insert color, but possibly the car color?). Sport will either have an optional tape stripe in the same area, or is naked.
- I believe the Commando emblem in the front of the F3 side trim is there for 383-2 and higher. Can't remember what a Sport gets for that.
fury fan
Senior Member
From factory brochure, but these cannot be determined as true production patterns.
This shows how the Commando emblem would be handled on a Sport - either a Suburban or a stripeless Sport Fury.
Here's how the F3 was done.
And here's a Sport Fury. Looks like the same emblem as on the Sport Suburban above, but located in the stripe. Note the rocker panel molding on this one, and also on the fenderskirt/Mag 500 wheel picture in the collage above. Logically, pictures taken from same car during marketing photoshoot?
This shows how the Commando emblem would be handled on a Sport - either a Suburban or a stripeless Sport Fury.
Here's how the F3 was done.
And here's a Sport Fury. Looks like the same emblem as on the Sport Suburban above, but located in the stripe. Note the rocker panel molding on this one, and also on the fenderskirt/Mag 500 wheel picture in the collage above. Logically, pictures taken from same car during marketing photoshoot?
fury fan
Senior Member
If you use the ECI, PLEASE report on how well it installs, and the braking performance afterward. I think that kit is one of the best options for us (as it doesn't use bearing spacer sleeves) and will fit behind a 14" wheel (but prob requires a later Aspen/Volare wheel). Even better that they offer a 13" rotor kit, too! I would assume a guy could upgrade from the smaller setup to the 13" if they bought the larger caliper bracket and rotors???
saylor
Senior Member
Ladies and Gentlemen:
i LOVE the ECI kit. ask for ralph and tell him we sent ya if he is still kickin. bolt on and no hassle in almost what 3 yrs so far? I had never done such brake front end work before, and did it in the driveway with basic tools, and the help of this forum.
now. drum roll please.
on the extremely musty smelling car i got from OR as seen in this post:
hazards/signals/interior lights/horn/ etc so far all function
oil changed
antifreeze added - was stored dry (thanks!)
aaaaaand
THE MOTOR TURNED OVER!
holy fuk i ran inside to come post this. :
now i got to get fuel to it.
i have a spare eddy and a gas can i may just change the top today and see if it will fire up. dunno. there is so much factory **** to unbolt heh. and i need to like power wash out all the pine needles. wth lol. its sooo packed with pine needles.
i LOVE the ECI kit. ask for ralph and tell him we sent ya if he is still kickin. bolt on and no hassle in almost what 3 yrs so far? I had never done such brake front end work before, and did it in the driveway with basic tools, and the help of this forum.
now. drum roll please.
on the extremely musty smelling car i got from OR as seen in this post:
hazards/signals/interior lights/horn/ etc so far all function
oil changed
antifreeze added - was stored dry (thanks!)
aaaaaand
THE MOTOR TURNED OVER!
holy fuk i ran inside to come post this. :
now i got to get fuel to it.
i have a spare eddy and a gas can i may just change the top today and see if it will fire up. dunno. there is so much factory **** to unbolt heh. and i need to like power wash out all the pine needles. wth lol. its sooo packed with pine needles.
saylor
Senior Member
re: the ECI kit - double check on the 14" thing - I went 15" wheels when i did the swap anyways so I didnt have to worry about it, but I ditched the 14" stock steely rims I had and should not have.... at the time i didnt know :/ they are somewhere in mexico now probably on a trailer behind a donkey.
I should have got the brake plates powder coated or something. i only primered them with spraybomb and its not holding up.
you have to relocate the brake hose tab at the frame. i have it documented in this forum on placement. special thanks to commando here for keeping me not dying.
using all stock plumbing, single power drum booster, stock combo valve, etc - 1968 model fury.
I should have got the brake plates powder coated or something. i only primered them with spraybomb and its not holding up.
you have to relocate the brake hose tab at the frame. i have it documented in this forum on placement. special thanks to commando here for keeping me not dying.
using all stock plumbing, single power drum booster, stock combo valve, etc - 1968 model fury.
saylor
Senior Member
fury fan
Senior Member
You need to change that drum booster to a disc booster, either a 68-70 dual-diaphragm (hard to find), or a 71-up larger-dia single diaphragm (or a retrofit aftermarket GM-style). The drum booster will provide sufficient boost for normal braking, but will not give as much during a hard stop (when you need it most).
And thanks for the ECI feedback!!!
And thanks for the ECI feedback!!!
saylor
Senior Member
i disagree with this. please find me something that shows you get more psi in the line with a dual diaphragm v. a single. i still maintain that you may get more or quicker FORCE in APPLYING an amount of pressure, but not that you get MORE pressure. pushing the M/C piston creates X amount of pressure. the booster does not multiply the M/C ability to magically produce more pressure than it can otherwise.
FWIW - ralph @ eci blessed it. not that he is king of the planet brakes or anything. but he probably knows more than i do about it.
i still also say - unhook your booster and push the brakes 1 time. its a wall. a rock. if you have conan leg you may move it some. the booster helps you push the pedal.
try not to die -
- saylor
fury fan
Senior Member
The input to the MC is leg pressure (in all cases) which can be modified by engine vacuum (or hydraulic assist). Stronger legs put more input into the MC, and higher pressure will be seen at the wheels (because the MC will push the fluid). I think we would all agree with this 100% for a manual-brake system.
So if a stronger leg can create higher pressure in teh tubes, why can't a 'stronger' booster?
The question isn't really whether the booster can create more pressure in the brake tubes vs without, because there were factory systems with manual disc brakes, so we know a leg is strong enough to push discs. The question arises because a power pedal has lower leverage because it was designed for a booster to compensate for that - merely to lower the required leg pressure.
Let's skip the tandem booster for now, because I cannot quantify how it works back to your specific comment of 'quicker'.
Due to simple physics, with same input pressure, a larger-dia piston will always make more output force than a smaller one. The booster is a similar thing, except it uses vacuum, and with special valving to allow it to exhaust when the pedal is released. So with the same vacuum input, a larger-diameter diaphragm will create more output force (a stronger leg). At same time, the smaller-dia drum booster will have less output force. At this point you might say 'I'll just push my leg harder to get the same force' but it may be that you would need to be 'The Rock' to get that same maximum output force with the smaller booster that would deliver the full capacity of the disc brakes.
My position on upgrading the booster comes from this:
So if a stronger leg can create higher pressure in teh tubes, why can't a 'stronger' booster?
The question isn't really whether the booster can create more pressure in the brake tubes vs without, because there were factory systems with manual disc brakes, so we know a leg is strong enough to push discs. The question arises because a power pedal has lower leverage because it was designed for a booster to compensate for that - merely to lower the required leg pressure.
Let's skip the tandem booster for now, because I cannot quantify how it works back to your specific comment of 'quicker'.
Due to simple physics, with same input pressure, a larger-dia piston will always make more output force than a smaller one. The booster is a similar thing, except it uses vacuum, and with special valving to allow it to exhaust when the pedal is released. So with the same vacuum input, a larger-diameter diaphragm will create more output force (a stronger leg). At same time, the smaller-dia drum booster will have less output force. At this point you might say 'I'll just push my leg harder to get the same force' but it may be that you would need to be 'The Rock' to get that same maximum output force with the smaller booster that would deliver the full capacity of the disc brakes.
My position on upgrading the booster comes from this:
- Drum brakes generally perform with 'duo-servo action', which means each shoe helps to push the other outward, and the rotation of the drum also contributes to that, making them more efficient (mechanically, that is -- they have other design parameters that make them lower-performing vs discs)
- I read many years ago (pre-internet) that disc brakes required higher brake-line pressure than drums, which is either due to the prev statement, or because disc pads seem to have less surface area than drum shoes do (which goes back to the piston analogy). Either way, higher pressure seems a logical requirement for discs.
- All factory disc systems had either dual-diaphragm (65-70) or a larger-dia single (71-newer) for C-bodies.
- Cost-cutting and lawsuits were alive and well back in the 60s, so there is some cost-justified reason the factory engineers spec'd different boosters between disc and drum. A solid reason.
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