1969 - 1971 C body Stub Frame (subframe)

[sevnt300]

There seems to be alot of mystery and mis information regarding the front forestructure (stub frame) on the 1969-1971 Chrysler C bodies as to which will fit which and what will bolt up to what. It’s pretty simple really, there are the rigidly mounted stub frames that bolt directly to the body and there the “Torsion Quiet” stub frames that have rubber isolators between the body and the stub frame.

1969​

In 1969 all Chrysler and Dodge hardtops, sedans, convertibles and wagons used the same stub frame, with only the Plymouth hardtops and sedans using a different stub frame. The Fury frame will bolt up to any of the other cars in the line up and will have most of the same dimensions but is built to accommodate the hardtop and sedan shorter torsion bars (6cyl and V-8 applications differ).

1970​

In 1970 Chrysler came out with what they called “Torsion Quiet Ride”. This system changed how the stub frame was mounted on the Chrysler and Dodge hardtops and sedans. The Torsion Quiet stub frame was similar but different, the outriggers were redesigned to allow for the rubber bushings to fit in between the frame and body. The stub frame was also lengthened about 16 1/2 inches behind the transmission crossmember where another rubber isolated mounting point was added. These stub frames will not bolt up rigidly to the body. The same rigid mount stub frame from 1969 was retained for the Chrysler, Dodge and Plymouth convertibles and wagons as well as a Dodge sedan when ordered as a Police Car. Plymouth hardtops and sedans still used the same stub frame from 1969 to accommodate the Fury’s shorter torsion bars (6cyl and V-8 applications differ).

1971​

In 1971 all Chrysler full size C bodies used the Torsion Quiet Ride system including station wagons. Convertibles were dropped from the line in 1971.

TO SUM IT UP

​

All 1969 C Bodies, with the exception of Fury hardtops and coupes are interchangeable.


1969 - 1970 C body Convertibles or Wagons can use the stub frame from any 1969 Chrysler, Dodge or Plymouth convertibles and wagons. 1970 - 1971 Chrysler and Dodge and 1971 Plymouth's will not bolt rigidly to the frame and will not work on all 1969 models or 1970 convertibles and wagons or Plymouth hardtops and sedans.


1969 - 1970 Fury hardtop and sedans are interchangeable (6 cyl and V-8 applications differ)


Rigid mounted stub frame cars use different wheel houses and radiator core supports than Torsion Quiet cars.


All 69-71 Imperials have a rigid mount stub frame that will bolt up to the other Chrysler, Dodge and Plymouth cars but are totally different. In theory you could build yourself an Imperial convertible or station wagon with all the right parts​

 

[Samplingman]

Thanks, Brian. I now own a collection of stub frames, 1969 Polara, 1970 2dr coupe and 1970 convertible, this is great information and confirms what I'm seeing. I'm interested in seeing the differences between the ridgid and torsion quiet radiator core supports. There seems to be different core supports for 1969 and 1970 convertibles, but I wasn't aware that the 1970 2 dr coupe support won't work with the convertible.

 

[Xavi3r]

Is this only for the front of the car ?
any chance of full interchangeability between 69 and 70 for the rear parts ?

 

[ceebuddy]

Excellent work, svent300! I have been asked numerous times, "will a stub frame from a ___ fit into my ___?". And I never knew the answer.

When you write for the 1970 model year, "Plymouth hardtops and sedans still used the same stub frame from 1969 to accommodate the Fury’s shorter torsion bars" - is that still a rigid mount or did Plymouth hardtops and sedans also switch to rubber mounts in 1970?

When you write for the 1971 model year, "In 1971 all Chrysler full size C bodies used the Torsion Quiet Ride system including station wagons" - that applies to all Chrysler, Dodge and Plymouth body styles?

Now give somebody an inch, and he will take a mile Was the 1971 principle of "all the same stub frames" carried over for 1972 and 1973?

 

[sevnt300]

Excellent work, svent300! I have been asked numerous times, "will a stub frame from a ___ fit into my ___?". And I never knew the answer.

When you write for the 1970 model year, "Plymouth hardtops and sedans still used the same stub frame from 1969 to accommodate the Fury’s shorter torsion bars" - is that still a rigid mount or did Plymouth hardtops and sedans also switch to rubber mounts in 1970?

When you write for the 1971 model year, "In 1971 all Chrysler full size C bodies used the Torsion Quiet Ride system including station wagons" - that applies to all Chrysler, Dodge and Plymouth body styles?

Now give somebody an inch, and he will take a mile Was the 1971 principle of "all the same stub frames" carried over for 1972 and 1973?

All 1969 -1970 Fury’s have rigid mount stub frames, they did not switch to Torsion Quiet Ride until 1971 so the answer is yes, all C bodies were Torsion Quiet frames in 1971 however Fury’s were still different from the Chrysler and Dodge models due to the shorter torsion bars.

The whole C body lineup continued with the isolated stub frame in 1972 and 1973 but I am not acquainted with similarities or differences to the earlier Torsion Quiet frames. I know that the Dodges switched to the shorter 44” torsion bars like the Fury’s while the Chryslers retained the longer 47” bars. There might be differences due to crash safety laws that might have come into play at that time, the best way to find out is to research the parts and service manuals for those years and compare them to the earlier models to see if they will interchange.

The Torsion Quiet radiator core support is about 2” shorter (top to bottom) than the rigid mount support to accommodate the rubber isolators.

There are differences in some of the trunk and tail panel sheet metal between model years and models. I will try to compile that information if anyone is interested.

 

[polara71]

So tell me, why did you register three years ago and have 25% of your posts in this thread.? .....


I now gotta go measure my core supports, I need to know for sure

 

[Wildaugust]

If you wanted to, could you mount the "Torsion Quiet" stub frame solid to the car by making/using metal spacers in place of the rubber isolators?

I was also wondering about the '72-'73 stub frames being the same as '71. You would think that they would be the same, but this was a time when things were starting to change quickly, with government regulations, etc. so there could be some surprises, I suppose.

 

[commando1]

Nothing about the 65 - 68's

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[polara71]

There are guys on the dock that swear they'll all interchange

 

[saforwardlook]

One thing I can add to the discussion is that my 1973 Monaco station wagon does have torsion quiet ride with the isolaters. I am not sure what my 1971 Town & Country wagon has though, as I thought it too was TQ, but I will have to check......................................

 

[commando1]

I'm going to be brutally blunt.
I sincerely appreciate the effort to clarify the Fusie stub frames, and I am totally convinced 70300 knows all there is to know about these stub frames, but that whole attempt to explain all the different stub frames came out, quite frankly, clear as mud.
1. How many stubs in 68 and on what makes and models was each of them on?
What were the differences between them.?
2. Same for 69 and what changes from 69?
3. Same for 70/69
4. Same for 71/70
5. Same for 72/71
5. Same for 73/72
Or do I need a spreadsheet to see ALL the 69-73 stubs.
With that I can determine interchangeability.
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[polara71]

Schew, I thought it was me

 

[commando1]

Nope.
I couldn't figure out the total number all together.

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[kmccabe56]

I'm going to be brutally blunt.
I sincerely appreciate the effort to clarify the Fusie stub frames, and I am totally convinced 70300 knows all there is to know about these stub frames, but that whole attempt to explain all the different stub frames came out, quite frankly, clear as mud.
1. How many stubs in 68 and on what makes and models was each of them on?
What were the differences between them.?
2. Same for 69 and what changes from 69?
3. Same for 70/69
4. Same for 71/70
5. Same for 72/71
5. Same for 73/72
Or do I need a spreadsheet to see ALL the 69-73 stubs.
With that I can determine interchangeability.
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OMG! That was an absolutely GREAT explanation of the different sub frames and it made TOTAL sense to me !!!!!!!!!

He didn't discuss 1968 and earlier frames, so that's a different topic. He also didn't discuss frames beyond 1971 so questions on '72, '73 are a different topic as well!

Find a 43rd or so edition of a Hollander Interchange Manual.

I have 36 which ends at 1970 and 50th which starts at 1974.

It doesn't get much simpler than the descriptions in there.

 

[Big_John]

Well... I just put a 71 core support in my 70 300 vert.... with no modifications.

 

[sevnt300]

Visual aids

 

[commando1]

The pictures tell me any core support will mount on any stub frame.

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[sevnt300]

It is true that a Torsion Quiet core support can be installed in a rigid mount frame but the correct core support for a rigid mount frame also mounts rigidly (without bushings) and was that way for a reason. I'm not here to tell anyone who wants to use the wrong parts not to do so, I'm just supplying this information to people reading the mis information floating around, who care about putting their cars together the right way an easier way to find the right parts so their cars will be safe and accurate.

 

[polara71]

How does that make it " wrong"?

You said " for a reason". What's the reason?

 

[commando1]

I think he's either talking about
(1) Correctness, or...
(2) You're tampering the overall integrity of the structure as designed and intended by the Engineers.

Or both......