1970 vs 1974 heater valve

Northcoast300h

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About 5000 miles ago, I bought a new heater valve for my 1970 300 Hurst for $100. It started to leak. I noticed the newer valves after 1974 are almost 1/3 the price (about $40). These are all steel which makes me believe they will last much longer than the bakelite valve from 1970?

I try to keep stuff OEM, but after I get screwed, I don't care anymore. As long as the pressures in the valve body and the hose diameter are the same, then it should work, correct? Thanks.

Screenshot 2022-12-15 at 22-32-42 NOS 74-78 Mopar Heater Control Valve Plymouth Dodge 1974 Dus...png
 
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There have been metal heater valves to replace the phenolic-body heater valves, even when those cars were new. I put one on my '70 Monaco 383 4bbl, after I bought it in 1975. THEN I noticed that under certain vac levels, a buzzing noise would come from the temperature slide bar area (a variable vac bleed). Obviously, the larger vac reservoir area on the OEM valve dampened the vac pulsations a bit better than the smaller one on the metal valve? Moving the temp lever a bit would usually stop the buzzing. Never did put the phenolic valve back on the car, back then.

Happy Holidays!
CBODY67
 
Buzzing might drive me nuts since I don't like noise. (I'm running Imperial mufflers), but I might give the metal one a shot. I just wonder if the metal one will last more than 5000 miles. Thanks for the post cbody.
 
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When I replaced mine years ago, that's the ONLY one I ever did. Which was years ago and about 80K miles ago before I stopped using the car daily. No need to chase "NOS" heater valves, to me.

Buzzing did not start immediately, but after a while. It was easy to make it stop with a little bit of movement of the heat lever. OR you can change it to the cable system used in 1972, valve, cable, a/c switch and all.
 
The original Chrysler bakelite/phenolic heater valves were junk. The would last maybe 2 years at best before they cracked and started leaking. I have a bunch of them but I won't use them because one never knows when they will crack and start leaking until one notices the engine temperatures start climbing due to leaking coolant. But in the case of the early 70s Chryslers, they only had hot lamps to let you know your engine just got fried because of one of those pieces of junk started leaking while driving down the road. I like to keep my cars usually as much nos stuff as possible, but that won't happen with those crap valves.

The aftermarket has supplied non-original metal heater valves for a very long time and I have yet to need to replace one. They do not, however, modulate the temperature as smoothly as the original ones did.

I have to wonder how many customers never bought another Chrysler product after being stranded on the side of the road a couple times with the original valves. Yeah, they saved a lot of money for the Corporation but they lost so many customers as a result. That's OK though, because the manager of the department got promoted due to his ability to cut costs and went on to his next assignment to continue to lead the company into bankruptcy by 1980.

How are you able to run Imperial mufflers - those were really long and with a large circumference as well and worked well to quell exhaust noise? I haven't been able to find any mufflers in the aftermarket for decades that were as long and effective in muting sound like those did especially when used in conjunction with resonators positioned near the end of the exhaust pipe(s). Like you, I want my cars quiet and do not like to hear the drone of the exhaust hour after hour of driving.
 
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I wouldn't tell anyone to put Imperial mufflers on. Yes they are very long and required modifying the pipes. About 10yrs ago, I had a massive backfire when I was playing with a new pertronix ignition and my OEM coil fried (fixed it). It crushed the mufflers like beer cans, but sounds kinda silent, plus cool when I punch it. I'll probably go back to the normal 300 muffler system next year.

Oops, I just noticed the new metal ones are only 1 pipe. The 1970 is 2 pipe. Anyone know the part number for a 2 pipe or how to hook up the 1 pipe? (pic not mine)
s-l1600aa.jpg
 
I've got a '72 Imperial muffler under my '67 Newport, plus the mating pipes. Normal C-body size for '65+, but not as long as the '64-'66 Imperial mufflers.

I concur with the heat modulation situation. At that time, I was looking for "no leaks", "no further replacements", and "price", though. So I tolerated the "a bit too hot or cool" situation and the buzzing sound.

FWIW,
CBODY67
 
The original Chrysler bakelite/phenolic heater valves were junk. The would last maybe 2 years at best before they cracked and started leaking. I have a bunch of them but I won't use them because one never knows when they will crack and start leaking until one notices the engine temperatures start climbing due to leaking coolant. But in the case of the early 70s Chryslers, they only had hot lamps to let you know your engine just got fried because of one of those pieces of junk started leaking while driving down the road. I like to keep my cars usually as much nos stuff as possible, but that won't happen with those crap valves.

The aftermarket has supplied non-original metal heater valves for a very long time and I have yet to need to replace one. They do not, however, modulate the temperature as smoothly as the original ones did.

I have to wonder how many customers never bought another Chrysler product after being stranded on the side of the road a couple times with the original valves. Yeah, they saved a lot of money for the Corporation but they lost so many customers as a result. That's OK though, because the manager of the department got promoted due to his ability to cut costs and went on to his next assignment to continue to lead the company into bankruptcy by 1980.

How are you able to run Imperial mufflers - those were really long and with a large circumference as well and worked well to quell exhaust noise? I haven't been able to find any mufflers in the aftermarket for decades that were as long and effective in muting sound like those did especially when used in conjunction with resonators positioned near the end of the exhaust pipe(s). Like you, I want my cars quiet and do not like to hear the drone of the exhaust hour after hour of driving.
LOL

When I was in tech school in the 1990s, Chrysler dealer techs were replacing evaporators under warranty all day long.
I wonder if the executive responsible for cost cutting on evaporators got fired or promoted.
 
I'm thinking of buying a new one like this. I guess it goes on the flow going to the heater core, correct? This is for a 1975 360 but Ebay says it will work on all 1974-1979 V8 mopar engines. It should work on a 1970 440 with A/C and ATC correct? Why did the 1970 models use both heater core hoses? I don't want to ruin my heater core. Thanks.

030619-1974-Plymouth-Fury-III-5.jpg
 
Wondering if you might need to add a vac reservoir to the system, as GM and Ford used, to dampen the vac pulses and stop anyu possible buzzing? Most of the GM items were round as Ford used what looked like grapefruit juice cans (painted black with vac connections/valves on their top). GM and Ford reservoirs had check valves to prevent/lessen vac loss on the supply side.

CBODY67
 
I read that I need to use the 4 tube bypass version since the coolant needs to continue to flow back thru the top of the engine or heads or something vital like that. Anyhow, does anyone know why Mopar went to a 1/2" heater hose for 1 hose while still using 5/8" for the other? Before 1970, they were both 5/8". Kinda of weird but probably a good reason which I don't know.

Anyhow, only a few vacuum 4 tube ones out there. This one is probably a cheap plastic piece of crap but so are the $100 ones I've tried. These are widely used on Fords. The hoses are both 5/8". What do you think?
Screenshot 2022-12-17 at 23-14-35 F87H18495AA 4 Port Heater Control Valve For Ford Explorer Ma...png
 
Using different heater hose sizes ensures the hoses get hooked up correctly. On the assy line and later on. Chrysler was not the only brand doing that, back then.
 
Thanks for the info Cbody! Remember when every new car had issues and broken stuff, even imports....and news wasn't owned by corporations so they could tell the truth? See vid - starts out good, but um....yeah.

 
I read that I need to use the 4 tube bypass version since the coolant needs to continue to flow back thru the top of the engine or heads or something vital like that. Anyhow, does anyone know why Mopar went to a 1/2" heater hose for 1 hose while still using 5/8" for the other? Before 1970, they were both 5/8". Kinda of weird but probably a good reason which I don't know.

Anyhow, only a few vacuum 4 tube ones out there. This one is probably a cheap plastic piece of crap but so are the $100 ones I've tried. These are widely used on Fords. The hoses are both 5/8". What do you think?
View attachment 572127
The thing you HAVE to watch out for is how the valve is actuated. Some work by full vacuum opening the valve and some work by full vacuum closing the valve.

With the '70 Chryslers (per the '70 FSM, section 24-39), vacuum opens the valve.
 
Can these be replaceced with the later years manual cable controlled valves? I have one from the ‘73 and it looks like it will bolt right in.
 
The cable is a two-piece affair, from what the old-line Chrysler service manager told me back then. I would suspect the vac valve could be upgraded to the cable valve, but is it really worth it? Might need to look in the '72 or '73 FSM and the related Chrysler parts books to see what all is involved in the cable systems. Might ALSO need the a/c panel for the cable models also!

But you can delete the switch that turns on the a/c compressor via a switch in the system, too. Makes it run for the first 1/2 of lever travel, even when the system is "OFF". In the "OFF" mode, the blower fan also runs at a very low speed, too.

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
 
I wouldn't tell anyone to put Imperial mufflers on. Yes they are very long and required modifying the pipes. About 10yrs ago, I had a massive backfire when I was playing with a new pertronix ignition and my OEM coil fried (fixed it). It crushed the mufflers like beer cans, but sounds kinda silent, plus cool when I punch it. I'll probably go back to the normal 300 muffler system next year.

Oops, I just noticed the new metal ones are only 1 pipe. The 1970 is 2 pipe. Anyone know the part number for a 2 pipe or how to hook up the 1 pipe? (pic not mine)
View attachment 571818
I'm about 99% certain that the second "pipe" is straight through with no valve.

Thinking about this, the '74 valve really look like the same valve except it's on a slightly different mounting bracket from the H1949 Everco units. So... I would be willing to bet that it works the same.

$30 plus $10 to ship... Willing to gamble $40? Worst case is it would work backwards, (cold would be hot LOL) I'd try it.

One other thing... I added one of these manual valves (find it on eBay) to the line not regulated by the valve to completely block hot water from the heater core. Since the heater rarely gets used, it's not a big deal to open the valve if you need heat. In fact, I've used manual ball valves to replace the vacuum heater control a couple times until I found an affordable heater valve! Just gotta open the hood to get heat.

s-l500-jpg.jpg
 
The thing you HAVE to watch out for is how the valve is actuated. Some work by full vacuum opening the valve and some work by full vacuum closing the valve.

With the '70 Chryslers (per the '70 FSM, section 24-39), vacuum opens the valve.
Cripes!!!, I never thought of that, so thank you, but now I'm really confused.

All pre 1973 pictures of 440's I've seen have 4 port or no heater valve.
After 1973, some 440's have 2 port, some have 4 port.
All mopar engines pictures I've seen except 440 have 2 port.

Why did engineers add expense of a 4 port than a simple 2 port? Maybe they found added pressure on the water pump when using a 2 port since it cuts off flow or adds backpressure? Or coolant is starved to the engine? Maybe they changed this defect after 1972 on all 440's? I don't know.

(To change to cable, I'd have to rip the dash apart. Too much work) I really appreciate all your help. I guess I'll play around and let you know in the summer.

Even Dyno testing, they don't just simply cap it off. I don't know.
Screenshot 2022-12-18 at 16-59-13 how does coolant flow in a Chrysler 440 - Google Search.png
 
Even Dyno testing, they don't just simply cap it off. I don't know.
This was probably ready to go into a car, so they just did the easy heater hose loop... Don't be afraid to use some pipe plugs to block it off. There's no function except for the heater... I've done it.
 
Notice that the loop (circled in yellow) is kinked closed. If these are connected and allowed to flow free, it will/can rob flow in the cooling system and can lead to overheating. DAHIK Lindsay
 
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