4166 replacement options

potshot

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I've read a bunch of threads, I'm looking for specific guidance. Thanks!

My stock Holley 4166 on my 69 300 (440, not TNT) survivor is leaking like crazy. So far I'm reading that that's to be expected and not to bother rebuilding. Is there a carb that will drop in and still use all of the mechanical choke linkage and similar looking fuel intake? Jegs has an 1850 that looks like it would work but is $$$. I have no interest in an electric choke. Suggestions? I'd like to keep all of the linkage as is.

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Swap to a 1971 440 AVS, #4966. The choke thermostat and fuel lines can be bought new. Life will be great.
 
Why not bother rebuilding? It held tight for 50 years and now you wanna toss it? Your car is as you feel a survivor type car, correct? Keep that original carb.
 
Rebuilding is really pretty simple. Bushing the throttle shafts is more complicated but probably not needed . And I cant think of a reason it would leak besides a gasket or fuel fitting . Both are easily replaced.
 
WHERE is it leaking from? Unless the throttle shaft is really sloppy and will not return to idle consistently, THEN replace it with either a newer Holley of an Edelbrock carb. NONE of them will be as inexpensive as they were 10 years ago.

Get a quality kit from Holley, the thick Holley base gasket as the OEM used, and rebuild it.

Granted, when the cars were new, the Holleys had a bad reputation of "leaking" and needing rebuilds every year or so, but from my own experiences, that is not the case any more. The only issue with the Holleys is that when the accel pump diaphram starts to seep, it seeps directly onto the intake manifold (in plain sight, usually, which also causes a gasoline smell under the hood). That issue has a fix of sorts in a "blue" accel pump diaphram. Supposed to be more resistant to ethanol fuels.

The 1850 Holley is a very BASIC, "fit-all" carburetor. Manual choke included! Not what you want as it can need some calibration changes to work as it should. As to the fuel line entrance, you should be able to transfer your existing float bowl to the new Holley. BUT, unless you want to fiddle with it, an 1850 is not desired.

To fit an AVS-2 Edelbrock carb, you'll need a throttle shaft adapter and transfer your existing carburetor throttle cable stud. You'll also need that same adapter with a new Holley to adapt the GM-style throttle arm to work with the Chrysler linkages. Not a big deal, but needed.

As for as the electric choke, all it needs is a wire going to it which gets power when the ignition key is on. Not a big deal to get wired-in, just have to know where to attach the wire to get power when desired. Instructions will come with the carburetor. Past that, probably a slight choke thermostat adjustment to get the choke open a bit sooner.

Now, for the approx $450.00 you'll end up spending for a new carburetor and the items to make it work, that same money can fund a quality rebuild and still have the factory hook-up items. Getting it back to how good it was when new.

As for the Holley 1850, that part number is what Ford used on all of their 4bbl V-8s in 1958. Starting in about the 1980s, Holley took that carburetor and "universalized" it for their "price leader" carburetor, which retailed for about $100.00 back then. Want an automatic choke? They had an add-on kit for that. Want it to fit a non-GM application? An adapter kit for Ford and one for Chrysler. With the universal fuel bowl, you'd need some rubber lines between the filter and the carburetor. Now, in present time, that formerly $100.00 carbureetor is much more money.

There's also the Holley Street Demo carburetor which will bolt to your intake manifold, too, but it looks like and is a copy of the Carter ThermoQuad 4bbls. It is supposed to be a good carburetor in how it acts and such. Still need the throttle/transmission linkage adapter and it has an electric choke. It probably is still the least expensive option.

Summit sells a Holley look-alike 4bbl which seems to be a combination of some improved Holley features and adds Ford-style annular primary throttle venturis (as the AVS-2 has). For somebody wanting what seems like an "improved Holley 4bbl", that might be the ticket. I've not heard about how it works, but it seems promising. Same adapter needed for the linkages and has an electric choke. No way to get around these things with a non-OEM replacement carburetor.

Holley MIGHT have some Chrysler OEM-replacement carburetors available for a similar model year B-b0dy 440, but I have not investigated that. They used to have more OEM-replacement carbs in prior years, but that selection has dwindled in more recent times. They were not cheap, but bolted right on.

One of them was the 1971 Dodge SuperBee 383 4160 series carburetor. In its earlier version, it was an OEM carb, but as things progressed, Holley "hot rodded" with dual inlet race fuel bowls, a slightly more generic fuel calibration, and an electric choke. All of the "good stuff" many customers might want for a 350-455 cid application. Then added the GM throttle linkage to it. In this case, you swap your existing float bowls and transfer tube to the new carb, install the throttle linkage adapter, hook up the choke wire, and should be done.

Holleys are NOT hard to rebuild. If it has "leaks", new gaskets and seals should take care of that. Those things will be in the carburetor kit. To me, the best way to go would be to rebuild what you have rather than get involved in adapting a new carburetor to your car. Same situation if you bought a core carburetor on eBay or similar, still need to get it rebuilt. Woodruff Carburetor, a member who advertises here, can be one of the best options for a rebuild, but you'll need to have the car unusable for a period of time while that rebuild is done.

Take care,
CBODY67
 
Rebuilding is really pretty simple. Bushing the throttle shafts is more complicated but probably not needed . And I cant think of a reason it would leak besides a gasket or fuel fitting . Both are easily replaced.
Those holleys are multiple leaks waiting to happen.

in the circles there is an o ring under that metal,disc, and there is fuel pressure there so it sprays out a fine stream. That disc is peened into place. It can be removed and epoxied back in place. Not reliable, when will it leak again?

The float bowl gaskets are under fuel level at all times, plus the 4 lower float bowl screws. And the accelerator pump diaphragm also.

Those Holley’s are unreliable compared to an AVS and I replace them for reliability. A factory Holley can work, but it’s not worth the effort in my garage. I like to go on road trips so the drama of a holley isn’t necessary.

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So he can rebuild it for correctness now and wait another 50 years for it to leak again.
I don't know, to me an original car needs original parts. If he's gonna replace the carb might as well just go EFI.
 
If the carb. was fine for all these years and just started leaking, I would rebuild it. If you are not comfortable doing it yourself, there are quite a few places that will do a quality rebuild for you. Anything else other than buying an exact replacement will require some changes from stock.
 
WHERE is it leaking from? Unless the throttle shaft is really sloppy and will not return to idle consistently, THEN replace it with either a newer Holley of an Edelbrock carb. NONE of them will be as inexpensive as they were 10 years ago.

Get a quality kit from Holley, the thick Holley base gasket as the OEM used, and rebuild it.

Granted, when the cars were new, the Holleys had a bad reputation of "leaking" and needing rebuilds every year or so, but from my own experiences, that is not the case any more. The only issue with the Holleys is that when the accel pump diaphram starts to seep, it seeps directly onto the intake manifold (in plain sight, usually, which also causes a gasoline smell under the hood). That issue has a fix of sorts in a "blue" accel pump diaphram. Supposed to be more resistant to ethanol fuels.

The 1850 Holley is a very BASIC, "fit-all" carburetor. Manual choke included! Not what you want as it can need some calibration changes to work as it should. As to the fuel line entrance, you should be able to transfer your existing float bowl to the new Holley. BUT, unless you want to fiddle with it, an 1850 is not desired.

To fit an AVS-2 Edelbrock carb, you'll need a throttle shaft adapter and transfer your existing carburetor throttle cable stud. You'll also need that same adapter with a new Holley to adapt the GM-style throttle arm to work with the Chrysler linkages. Not a big deal, but needed.

As for as the electric choke, all it needs is a wire going to it which gets power when the ignition key is on. Not a big deal to get wired-in, just have to know where to attach the wire to get power when desired. Instructions will come with the carburetor. Past that, probably a slight choke thermostat adjustment to get the choke open a bit sooner.

Now, for the approx $450.00 you'll end up spending for a new carburetor and the items to make it work, that same money can fund a quality rebuild and still have the factory hook-up items. Getting it back to how good it was when new.

As for the Holley 1850, that part number is what Ford used on all of their 4bbl V-8s in 1958. Starting in about the 1980s, Holley took that carburetor and "universalized" it for their "price leader" carburetor, which retailed for about $100.00 back then. Want an automatic choke? They had an add-on kit for that. Want it to fit a non-GM application? An adapter kit for Ford and one for Chrysler. With the universal fuel bowl, you'd need some rubber lines between the filter and the carburetor. Now, in present time, that formerly $100.00 carbureetor is much more money.

There's also the Holley Street Demo carburetor which will bolt to your intake manifold, too, but it looks like and is a copy of the Carter ThermoQuad 4bbls. It is supposed to be a good carburetor in how it acts and such. Still need the throttle/transmission linkage adapter and it has an electric choke. It probably is still the least expensive option.

Summit sells a Holley look-alike 4bbl which seems to be a combination of some improved Holley features and adds Ford-style annular primary throttle venturis (as the AVS-2 has). For somebody wanting what seems like an "improved Holley 4bbl", that might be the ticket. I've not heard about how it works, but it seems promising. Same adapter needed for the linkages and has an electric choke. No way to get around these things with a non-OEM replacement carburetor.

Holley MIGHT have some Chrysler OEM-replacement carburetors available for a similar model year B-b0dy 440, but I have not investigated that. They used to have more OEM-replacement carbs in prior years, but that selection has dwindled in more recent times. They were not cheap, but bolted right on.

One of them was the 1971 Dodge SuperBee 383 4160 series carburetor. In its earlier version, it was an OEM carb, but as things progressed, Holley "hot rodded" with dual inlet race fuel bowls, a slightly more generic fuel calibration, and an electric choke. All of the "good stuff" many customers might want for a 350-455 cid application. Then added the GM throttle linkage to it. In this case, you swap your existing float bowls and transfer tube to the new carb, install the throttle linkage adapter, hook up the choke wire, and should be done.

Holleys are NOT hard to rebuild. If it has "leaks", new gaskets and seals should take care of that. Those things will be in the carburetor kit. To me, the best way to go would be to rebuild what you have rather than get involved in adapting a new carburetor to your car. Same situation if you bought a core carburetor on eBay or similar, still need to get it rebuilt. Woodruff Carburetor, a member who advertises here, can be one of the best options for a rebuild, but you'll need to have the car unusable for a period of time while that rebuild is done.

Take care,
CBODY67

Thanks, this is a great overview of options; pros and cons. I'll give it some thought then see what makes the best sense for my situation.
 
I highly doubt that carb has been untouched for 50 years. Unless the OP is the original owner and knows the carb has never been touched, I'm betting it's been repaired before. @413 nailed the story on these carbs.

A new 600cfm Edelbrock would be my choice, although the choke might need some fiddling to connect properly to the OEM divorced choke. BTDT
Manual-choke Eddys are calibrated richer for power, the electric choke versions are calibrated for economy.
On a stock 350hp 440, I think either one would work OK but even if not ideal the 'loss' wouldn't be noticeable.
I used a 600 on a '70 440 with great success many years ago, IIRC it was a manual choke version that I installed an electric choke on.

@CBODY67
The Speed Demon carb (the T-quad copy) will not fit on a square-bore intake without an adapter. Or needs a '72-newer intake.
I would really love to try one of those carbs to see how well they work, but can't prioritize the $$ right now.
 
I highly doubt that carb has been untouched for 50 years. Unless the OP is the original owner and knows the carb has never been touched, I'm betting it's been repaired before. @413 nailed the story on these carbs.

A new 600cfm Edelbrock would be my choice, although the choke might need some fiddling to connect properly to the OEM divorced choke. BTDT
Manual-choke Eddys are calibrated richer for power, the electric choke versions are calibrated for economy.
On a stock 350hp 440, I think either one would work OK but even if not ideal the 'loss' wouldn't be noticeable.
I used a 600 on a '70 440 with great success many years ago, IIRC it was a manual choke version that I installed an electric choke on.

@CBODY67
The Speed Demon carb (the T-quad copy) will not fit on a square-bore intake without an adapter. Or needs a '72-newer intake.
I would really love to try one of those carbs to see how well they work, but can't prioritize the $$ right now.
Untouched since 1993 in the back of a garage FWIW. Can't speak to the carb's virginity though lol so you may be right

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@CBODY67
The Speed Demon carb (the T-quad copy) will not fit on a square-bore intake without an adapter. Or needs a '72-newer intake.
I would really love to try one of those carbs to see how well they work, but can't prioritize the $$ right now.
The TQ would need an adapter, but the Street Demon lit claims it will bit both square bore and spread bore intakes. The "Goggle" secondaries are no wider than the primaries, looking more like an adaptation of the old Holley 950cfm 3-barrel carb from the late 1960s.

CBODY67
 
Similar situation with my car, it runs great, starts right up on the first try, but it has an obscure stock replacement Holley carb on it. Leaking fuel from accelerator pump and somewhere else. I'm not going to drive it until I can rebuild it, but I can't find any kits that match. LIST 4749-3. This is an All original 68 NYer 40,000 miles sat outside for 10 years. Trying to keep everything stock for daily driver usage. I might have a reputable carb guy that can rebuild it.. or is there a way to simply put new seals on it? Is there a better "stock compatible" carb I can source to swap in?
 
Anything Carter AFB or AVS2 with an electric choke. Just need the adapter bracket for the throttle bracket, which Edelbrock sells. Do get a thick carb spacer gasket, too.

Plus a fuel line to the carb from the fuel filter. Either from somebody like Inline Tube (or similar) OR build your own with a tubing bender and a stick of fuel line from an auto supply.

You Holley CAN be rebuilt. There are separate accel pump diaphrams available to fix that leak. Same with bowl gaskets. Probably need to put a new fuel pump in the mix, too. Do you know the current Holley is original to the car? Many of the basic things like fuel bowl gaskets and accel pump diaphrams are common to many Holleys over the years, not just ONE carb number, so what you find should work.

Take care,
CBODY67
 
So I ended up rebuilding the carb myself and it worked out great. After a few small adjustments the car starts up easy, idles great and accelerates without hesitation. I'm pleasantly surprised and yes, it was plain to see that at least one person had been in that carb in the past (screws had marks, etc).

As far as history, I bought a 67 Charger (same situation, sat in a garage for @30 years) from the owner of this car a couple of years ago. I mostly play with Euro cars these days and was interested in having a V8 car again. I had worked with this guy and he mentioned that he had a couple in his garage and said he'd sell one if I was interested. This 69 was the one I did not buy. Anyhow, he ended up passing away and willed me some tools and the 300 "if I was interested". Funny story, his wife said that he had gone to the dealership to buy a few parts and when he came back he had also purchased this car lol. I guess he couldn't leave it there. It was parked while he was debugging the brakes and never moved again.

When I got the car home I replaced the fuel tank, alternator and the coil, put some fresh tires on it and rebuilt the carb and sent the booster to Karp's. It has a little rust but but generally speaking is in really nice shape. I may sell it this coming year, but it's easy to work on so far and I'm having so much fun driving it around that selling it isn't a priority. Maybe I'll put it on the market later this year.

Here are a few pics

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You must be in southern Minnesota. We didnt have any Palm trees in the Twin Cities. Lol
 
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