70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
The new one yes.
440 heads
- Thread starter Ironram
- Start date
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
Use it or lose the trademark I guess.
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
I think they could not use the NAG designation when diamler left.
Rusty
New Member
I went with Eddelbrock Performer RPM aluminum heads from 452's. WOW!! Big difference. 484 cam, Performer intake, 750 DP Holley double roller chain. Cheers
Ironram
Member
For the little its worth... I never did this work, but do understand some of the concepts behind it. Can't speak to "stages of porting" but even if there is a guide, I would expect most claims to be BS, like a "hemi440".
The original port design forms a funnel and helps create turbulence at low speeds causing air and fuel to mix and burn efficiently. Porting is the idea of opening this funnel to add more flow, which helps top end, but may hurt lower rpm performance. If there is a standard out there, I would guess it would relate to how much more flow you created... which would require a flow bench to measure.
I do know that most novices turn their first attempts into boat anchors by ruining the funnel effect. Port matching is making sure the opening of the head doesn't have metal in the way of the opening of the intake and cause the air flow turbulence at the wrong place. this would be the mildest and wisest for mild street use.
I might not have answered anything, but if I helped it make more sense... Dave and others here have likely done more radical work than I ever want to.
the better you get it to breathe at top rpms the worse it will do at low rpms...good rule of thumb...cruisers are low rpms...only racing I want to do is maybe help my buddy pit the historics... and that's because all you do is look at cars.
72Fury
Senior Member
Yes. A really neat head to look at is a 351 Cleveland. Giant ports. A 440 head is tiny in comparison. You really have to look at one to believe it. Many go to the 2V (barrel) heads to get back low & mid range, or add torque plates. Basically restriction to the flow.
Rusty
New Member
Ok, Edelbrock Performer RPM aluminum heads. Talked to Vic Edelbrock Jr. and told me that all of their Performer RPM series will shift at 6500 all day. I shift mine at 6 grand with zero valve float. It's all about the total combination. Cheers
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
I have seen those sewer pipes very big and a very high floor on the intake port. These are what made the Boss 302 such a legend.
Ironram
Member
Which cc head did you use the 75cc?
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
I would always use close chamber heads to create turbulence as the piston comes to TDC. Tight quench areas (piston to head clearance) is how modern engines are getting away with higher compression ratios. A big block has a terrible combustion chamber and the spark plug is way over to the side, you can't really rengineer the engine so unless it is going to make you compression ratio sky high always use the smaller closed chamber head. Also this is measured compression ratio not a catalogue guess, how far in the hole+gasket thickness+cc'd chamber volume not what Vic said it was in summit cat.
My 2 cents
67Monaco
Old Man with a Hat
Yeah I understand all that and and understand the nomenclature, it's really the whole "Stage" thing that gets me. When we were machining heads, trip in the way back machine, 5 angle grinds were all the rage. We didn't call a three angle job stage 1 and a 5 a stage 2 yada yada. It was one other the other. The stage (X) terms are for the FNF crowd that have no idea how to articulate what's been done to the engine.
Ironram
Member
Anyone ever used promaxx performance heads? I ve read a lot of reviews on all different forums ford, chevy, mopar etc and seem to be a lot of great reviews with some builders saying they out perform performer rpm heads at a fraction of the cost. any input is appreciated TIA.
I agree, I have seen more cars and engines made FUBAR than anything functional...especially in the FWD "10 second car" crowd. I pissed off an wildly modified Eclipse owner, who spent thousands on his non runner, by suggesting we go back to stock and start over. Told him the least I would consider was a teardown then tell him to start over... he wanted to spend labor for me to get running what his "builder" couldn't... I was sure the heads had been made into garbage... the timing belt was loose (sign of a milled head).
BTW how is life in Punta Gorda? I haven't done anything but drive through a few times since Charley hit. Natures urban renewal plan just about killed everything close to 75, 17 and 41, from the main roads it all looks much busier and cleaner than before. I spent years thinking that would be a ok place to live, but bad to find work in. I was in Ft Myers, Naples for years and found that a little too seasonal, but doable... never loved Orlando, but I'm stuck due to wife/employment... I'm too busted up for flat rate anyhow.
Landyacht
Active Member
It's all in the particular application you are looking for. There are allot of heads out there that will give you more peak horsepower than Performer RPMs but peak horsepower doesn't always mean everything on a street build . Power bellow the curve is just as important. In a heavy c-body you need to retain a little bit of low end torque. Performer RPMs will give you that. If you want a good mild street build I would go with Performer RPMs .
heyoldguy
Member
Ironram
Member
Same head same casting and specs. Lots of info on them on moparts. $1075 for a pair ready to run. Ive read my eyes out on these till 2:30 this am then back at it at 7 am and for the price and what im slapping together i think they re perfect. I have not read 1 bad thing about them.
moper
Well-Known Member
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The "stage" of porting is just a way to simplify what was done. Porting can be a lot, or virtually nothing. The stage the port was taken to defines how far the porter went... and it's subjective by the porter doing the work. As for me Stage 1 is basically a really good modern valve job, with a little blending between the throat cut and the as-cast bowl. No mods to the short turn in most cases, not mods to the guide boss, or pushrod pinch, or entry/roof. Total time invested per port is about 10 minutes (iron ports) or so because the valve job I get is that good as compared to a three angle or pretty much anything done with stones.
Stage 2 is bowl work, guide contouring, some work at the pinch, and gasket matching the entry and working back to the pinch. It's about 30-45 minutes per port on iron, 15-20 on aluminum. It also usually includes a flow test to verify the work.
Stage 3 is all the above, the entry, pinch, and throat are all worked, the short turn is worked, modifications may be done in terms of redesigning the port, etc. It's "maxed out" in most cases. A good porter may also take molds of the ports and fill/epoxy too so there's materials you might not ordinarily see used. Time is whatever it takes. Regular flow testing is mandatory to verify everything is what it should be.
Most of what you see done with porting templates or non-professionals is somewhere around a "1.5". It's grasping at the easiest flow increasers and the return on investment is fairly good unless the guy's a hack.
Stage 2 is bowl work, guide contouring, some work at the pinch, and gasket matching the entry and working back to the pinch. It's about 30-45 minutes per port on iron, 15-20 on aluminum. It also usually includes a flow test to verify the work.
Stage 3 is all the above, the entry, pinch, and throat are all worked, the short turn is worked, modifications may be done in terms of redesigning the port, etc. It's "maxed out" in most cases. A good porter may also take molds of the ports and fill/epoxy too so there's materials you might not ordinarily see used. Time is whatever it takes. Regular flow testing is mandatory to verify everything is what it should be.
Most of what you see done with porting templates or non-professionals is somewhere around a "1.5". It's grasping at the easiest flow increasers and the return on investment is fairly good unless the guy's a hack.
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
Those are nice looking as cast.
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