'65 Fury III w/440 - TTI header fitment issues...

[barsteel]

Hello!

Finally got a chance to drop the 440 into my '65 Fury III to replace the tired out 383. The car is an original big block car, so I figured that things would go smoothly. Not the case.

After getting the conversion motor mounts from Schumacher, which required drilling and tapping the block, and working out the oil pan clearance issues, I dropped a shitload of money on a set of TTI headers specifically for my '65 big block C body that were supposed to fit perfectly. Not the case.

After pulling the torsion bar to get in the PS header, I found that I have serious interference issues with the idler arm (see pics) and the bellhousing. I checked TTI's website and found that their recommended fix for steering clearance issues is to slot out the motor mounts and move the motor back about an inch, which, of course, would require me to pull the engine again. However, it also doesn't appear as if 1" will solve my problem(s).

My next steps are to remove the motor mounts to see if I can modify them in any way (vs. the motor mounting stanchions welded to the frame) to move the motor back, which will partially resolve the clearance issue. I'll also have to notch out the bellhousing to allow the header flange to lie flush against the head. I'm thinking that I'll have to dimple (or dent) the header tube in order to get the necessary clearance. I'd rather not do that, but I don't see what other choices I have at this point.

Has anyone dealt with this issue, and if so, how did you solve it?

Looking at the car, I could heat and bend the idler arm, but honestly, that kinda scares me. Should I even consider the possibility?

I've heard different POVs about denting header tubes...some say it will kill performance, other say that you can get away with it, and you won't feel any difference.

I'm not looking forward to re-pulling the engine, especially to compensate for stupidly expensive headers that were "application specific" for my car.

Chris

 

[65Fury440]

Wow that's gotta hurt, probably too late to return them huh?
I have the same motor mount setup , and Hooker B body headers fit fine.

 

[barsteel]

They have my dirty paw prints all over them, so yes, I'd assume that they won't take them back. Besides, as far as I know, TTI is the only one who makes headers for C bodies.

Chris

 

[65Fury440]

They have my dirty paw prints all over them, so yes, I'd assume that they won't take them back. Besides, as far as I know, TTI is the only one who makes headers for C bodies.

Chris

Maybe they're the only one who says they do, but do they really?

B body headers have been worked well on both 65 440 Fury and a 68 383 Fury.

I need to upgrade to 2" primaries soon, I plan on calling header companies to see what will work.

Sorry to hear about your frustration......... I'd be making up new swear words.

Hope ya get her all figured out.

 

[67Monaco]

Are they bolted up? They seem like they hang WAY below the frame.

 

[1Fury1]

Though my Fury is a small block, I ran into a fitment issue where the the C body header on the driver side would not clear the manual steering box. I called TTI and they sent me out a B body header for that side and it fit perfectly.

Matter of fact it tucks in tighter underneath and runs nicely through the depression in the frame cross member, whereas the C body header on the other side hangs lower like you describe and is not centered in the cross member cutaway. It also comes very close to the idler arm, such that I had to put a plug in the grease nipple to get clearance on a turn. So now I have one C and one B and the C hangs lower which bothers me a bit. Can't help but wonder whether a B body header on both sides would be the way to go.

My advice would be to talk to TTI and investigate the option of returning yours for a set of 440 B Body headers. They might just work.

This is before.

 

[barsteel]

Are they bolted up? They seem like they hang WAY below the frame.


Yes, the header is held on by 2 bolts. The flange won't sit flat on the head because of the bellhousing clearance issue.

Reading the responses has me worried...I haven't even tried to fit the driver's side yet, and I was not encouraged by the response from TTI's tech person, who seemed to feel that the problem was with my car, and not their headers. Hopefully I can get some time tomorrow to test fit the DS header.

Chris

 

[Badvert65]

I have a question. Years ago, I had a set of Hooker headers for a big block 74 Road Runner. I tried to use them on my 65 Fury big block and the passenger side came nowhere close to fitting. It ran directly into the torsion bar. The driver side fit just fine.
I have a set of Schumacher shorties on it now, but have a set of TTI C body headers waiting to go on. Hope they fit.

 

[ChrisBcream]

I'm tuned in to this!!!!!!!

I am rebuilding a 65 fury and putting a 440 in as well. Sounds like I will be trying B-body headers first.

What other fitment issues did you have? Modified oil pan?

 

[bulldogchesty]

Waiting for Stans comment.

 

[65Fury440]

Just going to throw this out there, and I apologize in advance for lack of specifics.

There was a post, I think it was on Moparts, that said TTI was at a Mopar show.
At this show there was a C body guy, and I believe how it went, was, the TTI guy measured his car, and said BB A body headers would work.
Maybe some one could remember more than I can. If OP could connect with that guy from TTI, he might be "the" guy who could help the OP get what he needs.

Honestly, the TTI C body headers on the 65 Fury do not look like they fit well enough to run, and for the money, that's a damn shame.

I would think later stub frames were longer and wider than the 65-66 Furys?

FWIW I'd be looking at B body headers for half the price, from a vendor with an easy return policy.

Good luck.

 

[ChrisBcream]

Hello!

Finally got a chance to drop the 440 into my '65 Fury III to replace the tired out 383. The car is an original big block car, so I figured that things would go smoothly. Not the case.

After getting the conversion motor mounts from Schumacher, which required drilling and tapping the block, and working out the oil pan clearance issues, I dropped a shitload of money on a set of TTI headers specifically for my '65 big block C body that were supposed to fit perfectly. Not the case.

After pulling the torsion bar to get in the PS header, I found that I have serious interference issues with the idler arm (see pics) and the bellhousing. I checked TTI's website and found that their recommended fix for steering clearance issues is to slot out the motor mounts and move the motor back about an inch, which, of course, would require me to pull the engine again. However, it also doesn't appear as if 1" will solve my problem(s).

My next steps are to remove the motor mounts to see if I can modify them in any way (vs. the motor mounting stanchions welded to the frame) to move the motor back, which will partially resolve the clearance issue. I'll also have to notch out the bellhousing to allow the header flange to lie flush against the head. I'm thinking that I'll have to dimple (or dent) the header tube in order to get the necessary clearance. I'd rather not do that, but I don't see what other choices I have at this point.

Has anyone dealt with this issue, and if so, how did you solve it?

Looking at the car, I could heat and bend the idler arm, but honestly, that kinda scares me. Should I even consider the possibility?

I've heard different POVs about denting header tubes...some say it will kill performance, other say that you can get away with it, and you won't feel any difference.

I'm not looking forward to re-pulling the engine, especially to compensate for stupidly expensive headers that were "application specific" for my car.

Chris

what issues with oil pan clearances did you have? what did you do to correct it?

I am installing 440 in my 65 fury as well

 

[barsteel]

Ok, headers are in. After notching the bellhousing by about 3/4", I had to massage the headers a bit to clear the idler arm and the tie rod link. Of course, then I found out that the 8 qt oil pan that came on the engine didn't have the proper relief for the idler arm when turned full right, so I had to pull the deep oil pan and use the original pan, which brings me back down to stock oil capacity. All told, I put in about 6 hours, took the headers in and out about 20 times. This was a learning experience for sure.

Chris

 

[barsteel]

ChrisBcream -

You will need a C body specific oil pan. I think that they were the same from 65 - 66. There needs to be a relief for the idler arm, or else it will hit the oil pan.

Chris

 

[ChrisBcream]

ChrisBcream -

You will need a C body specific oil pan. I think that they were the same from 65 - 66. There needs to be a relief for the idler arm, or else it will hit the oil pan.

Chris

Awesome thanks for the info. Im tuned in to any info you can provide as im doing this exact same swap now. Just bought a 440 with the bosses on block to use schumacher motor mounts

 

[barsteel]

ChrisBCream - When you're drilling the holes for the mounts, be aware that the bosses that you're drilling into already have holes drilled into them that are perpendicular to the holes that you're drilling. They're factory drilled holes for mounting the oil pump. It's important to know because as you break into the already drilled passages, the drill edges will grab and likely twist the drill out of your hand. Ask me how I know. Be CAREFUL. Drill those holes slowly and carefully. You do NOT want to break a drill in the block. Use a brand new and sharp drill bit, and lots of oil to keep things cool or you will heat up and ruin your new drill bit in a hurry.

Chris

 

[65Fury440]

ChrisBCream - When you're drilling the holes for the mounts, be aware that the bosses that you're drilling into already have holes drilled into them that are perpendicular to the holes that you're drilling. They're factory drilled holes for mounting the oil pump. It's important to know because as you break into the already drilled passages, the drill edges will grab and likely twist the drill out of your hand. Ask me how I know. Be CAREFUL. Drill those holes slowly and carefully. You do NOT want to break a drill in the block. Use a brand new and sharp drill bit, and lots of oil to keep things cool or you will heat up and ruin your new drill bit in a hurry.

Chris

I was worried about that, maybe overly so. I took the oil pump off and measured the depth of the holes. In my block, there was enough room to drill lower than the oil pump holes were drilled. so they did not intersect.
And yes, that iron takes time to drill through.