72 Fury III 4dr Got my mojo back! Wrenching again...and I have QUESTIONS

[MBar]

Got the car last weekend... best I can tell it's been maybe 19 years since it ran. I am trying to get it running and stopping so I can move it around.
BRAKES
So far, I replaced the master cylinder and the brakes bled fine. If this car runs, I will redo all the cylinders in the future but for now I am going minimal.
DRIED ENGINE SLUDGE?
Drained the oil and changed the filter. It had a full load of old oil and I didn't see any water so that's good. However, when I opened the oil fill cap on the valve cover (360), I could see a lot of dried, rust-colored powder in there. I'm not sure it's a good investment to pull the valve covers and vacuum that off where I can reach it...remember, I haven't proven this thing runs yet. I figure it is dried sludge and there is more where I can't reach...So I poured fresh oil in and figure once it runs I'll put some sea foam in there and drain it out.
FUEL TANK
Smelled really bad. I was afraid to pull the tank but that proved incredibly easy. Glad I had seen a post regarding the filler tube and how it just pulls out. Tank is pretty clean and rust free. Poured old fuel out and put a gallon of fresh in and swirled it around for a while on all sides. I am not going to mess with the sending unit as I want to get this done today and I feel lucky. Of course I AM changing out all the fuel line. Not messing with the pump unless I need to.

QUESTION 1
The fuel filler tube was nice and tight when I pulled it out. Now, it fits snug but I am not so confident it will seal... Ideas? If not then I will continue and order something for later..
QUESTION 2
Any comments on the engine sludge thing?
QUESTION 3
Just curious about the fuel lines at the tank...there is a cannister/tank of some sort above the fuel tank into which lines go... I assume this is part of the venting? Anything to service there?
QUESTION 4
I noticed at the tank that some of the lines had typical screw type hose clamps while others had some kind of pressed-on clamp... why? I assume it's ok to use new regular clamps.

 

[65sporty]

Good to hear that your out wrenching
#1 snug is good, I usually use some Vaseline to help slide into the grommet.

#2Pulling the valve covers is not a bad idea, just make sure to plug the drain back holes so it doesn't all go to the oil pan.

#3 If the fuel lines are all rotten, change them. If they look ok just be concerned with the supply line.

#4 new worm drive clamps are ok, spring clamps are ok. Use what ever you prefer and have access to.

 

[CBODY67]

Fuel lines. The cannister is a vapor collection/recycling device. As mentioned, the main fuel line to replace is the supply line from the tank, plus any return lines which carry raw gasoline from or to the tank. The tank vent should be through the carbon cannister under the hood.

You'll probably need a new fuel pump as the diaphragm in the current one is probably dried-out and somewhat brittle. Plan on it needing to be changed soon.

The fuel gauge sending unit might ground through the fuel line, as prior years did. On the supply line, there should be a "clamp" that has a soft metal bar that should contact the fuel line at each end. Make sure this happens. You can probably clean the variable resistor on the sending unit rather than replace the whole thing. Check the float for integrity, if it's a brass one.

Dried sludge. Remove the valve covers and put some oil on it. ATF might work, too. Basically "put the oil back into it" so it'll soften and can be removed easier. Might take a few applications. Put some quality valve cover gaskets back on it, coating all sides and bolt holes with high-heat black silicone. That'll prevent the oil from wicking through the cork-rubber gaskets AND make them easier to remove, if needed, and possibly re-use again.

What you might also do to remove the sludge accumulation. Actually two things. Put the fresh oil in and get the engine running and driving. Let the oil get to where it used to be and such. When then level might get to 1/2 qt down, put in a pint of engine detergent. Run it until it's a 1/2 qt down and change the oil The more expensive way could be to use Mobil1 rather than a detergent additive. Mobil1 is supposed to have some esters in it and esters remove sludge by liquifying it.

What I did when I bought my '70 Monaco (in 1975, with 86K miles on it) was to wait until it was a qt low and changed it. Then did it again. The rocker shafts, as viewed through the oil filler cap, were clean as new. After that, just normal oil/filter changes. On later cars, I'd do the same thing initially, then after I started doing my own oil changes, I'd pour an extra qt of oil through the filler cap, with the drain plug still out. Which I perceived would flush out the residual oil in the bottom of the oil pan, which was below the drain plug level. Cheap addition, I felt, to getting ALL of the old oil out. Castrol GTX was about $1.50/qt back then.

Don't forget about the cooling system! Drain and refill with quality coolant. Replace appropriate hoses and clamps. Check for freeze plugs that might be needing to be changed. If any do need to be changed, plan on doing them all. Washing out the coolant passages, paying attention to the rear of the block, where the "stuff" will accumulate as that's the lowest level in the block. The car came with a 195 degree t/stat and that'll be fine, by observation, as the LA engines usually run "cooler" than the B/RB engines anyway. In cooler climates, you'll need the additional heat to keep things cleaner in the engine and to keep residue from stopping up the pcv hose! Watch for a milky substance on the top of the dipstick.

You're on the right track, but there's still much to do.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

 

[MBar]

Good to hear that your out wrenching
#1 snug is good, I usually use some Vaseline to help slide into the grommet.

#2Pulling the valve covers is not a bad idea, just make sure to plug the drain back holes so it doesn't all go to the oil pan.

#3 If the fuel lines are all rotten, change them. If they look ok just be concerned with the supply line.

#4 new worm drive clamps are ok, spring clamps are ok. Use what ever you prefer and have access to.

 

[Davea Lux]

You can remove the valve covers and take them to your local automotive machine shop and have them "Hot Tanked" that will remove all of sludge and rust. You will need to repaint them afterwards, but that is something you might as well do while the covers are off. Inspect the rockers and shafts, if they are gunked up or rusted, they should be cleaned before trying to start the engine and be sure to give each valve stem a shot of penetrating oil as the valve guides could also be rusted and seized. Giving them a shot of oil will help prevent a valve from getting clobbered or a push rod getting bent. A couple of squirts of light motor oil in each cylinder is also a good idea to lubricate the rings.

The rubber donut for the filler tube on the tank should really be replaced, especially if it is dried out and cracking.

Dave

 

[rags]

it's a small block. pull the plugs and crank it 'till the oil light goes off. screw the plugs back in, dump a little gas down it's throat and hit the key. seriously though, rust in the valve covers could be from condensation and should be cleaned. as 65sporty said above be very conscious of the drain back holes. can't remember if these had plastic cam sprockets...

 

[MBar]

Pulled the valve covers...OMG!!
Used a vacuum to get as much as I could and I'll change it and do as suggested with some detergent stuff..the gaskets were toast... I bought the fuel pump so maybe I'll just change is proactively as I'm already in there.. headed to get a creeper... the bottom is nasty with cobwebs and crap so I'll vac that out. The underside is clean as heck...really shiny and zero rust and it shows nicely where the tank covers it up...
Thanks for the replies and I'll keep you oosted

 

[67Monaco]

Good to hear that your out wrenching
#1 snug is good, I usually use some Vaseline to help slide into the grommet.

#2Pulling the valve covers is not a bad idea, just make sure to plug the drain back holes so it doesn't all go to the oil pan.

#3 If the fuel lines are all rotten, change them. If they look ok just be concerned with the supply line.

#4 new worm drive clamps are ok, spring clamps are ok. Use what ever you prefer and have access to.

Agreed.

 

[67Monaco]

Pulled the valve covers...OMG!!
Used a vacuum to get as much as I could and I'll change it and do as suggested with some detergent stuff..the gaskets were toast... I bought the fuel pump so maybe I'll just change is proactively as I'm already in there.. headed to get a creeper... the bottom is nasty with cobwebs and crap so I'll vac that out. The underside is clean as heck...really shiny and zero rust and it shows nicely where the tank covers it up...
Thanks for the replies and I'll keep you oosted

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Holy crap. I'd pour some oil over those rockers before i put the valve covers back on.

Actually, I'd pour some oil over them, then start it just to make sure oil is getting to the top end.

Wow.

 

[67Monaco]

I'd put some oil in the cylinders too while I was at it. let it soak for a few days before trying to spin it. Just to be sure.

 

[Big_John]

I think I would pull the intake manifold too. I have no idea what that crap is on the rocker arms. At minimum, pour some oil on the rockers, as was suggested.

 

[MBar]

Poured oil on the heads...
NEW PROBLEM
Pulling the thermostat housing, broke the head off one of the bolts...uuuugh!!
soaked overnight and doesn't budge...vice grips just slip...
I tried heating the manifold with a torch and didn't make any difference. Went to Harbor Freight and got the only extractor set they had but none of them fit the bolt!
I know the the worst case is to have to tap a new hole.

I have also managed to lose the other bolt... Does anyone know the spec for the bolts? I went to O'Reilly and all they has was 3/8 by 16 and I tried one in the other hole but it wouldn't go far and I'm not into forcing it.

So close....and yet so far

 

[Davea Lux]

You will be wanting to pull those rockers and hot tank them as well, rust is a potent abrasive and you do not want any in the crank case. Have you put a socket on the damper bolt to see if this engine will still move? T-stat housing bolts are not anything special, grade 5 bolt the right length will do. Getting them out can be a pain when they break, if all else fails, try drilling a small pilot hole down the center of the broken bolt thru the bottom of it and fill the cavity with penetrating oil, this will get oil to the lower threads and help free it up. One you get it out, you will probably need to clean both holes with an 3/8" NC tap.

Dave

 

[MBar]

You will be wanting to pull those rockers and hot tank them as well, rust is a potent abrasive and you do not want any in the crank case. Have you put a socket on the damper bolt to see if this engine will still move? T-stat housing bolts are not anything special, grade 5 bolt the right length will do. Getting them out can be a pain when they break, if all else fails, try drilling a small pilot hole down the center of the broken bolt thru the bottom of it and fill the cavity with penetrating oil, this will get oil to the lower threads and help free it up. One you get it out, you will probably need to clean both holes with an 3/8" NC tap.

Dave

We had hooked up a battery before I bought it and cranked it no problem for less than 5 seconds just to make sure it spins. That nasty stuff was very powdery and vacuumed right up....want to make sure you noticed that some pics were before and others after vacuuming.. going to put some oil in the cylinders....I was thinking something that would "mist" so it would spread across as much surface as possible because I think if I just squirt some in it will simply pool at the lowest point....what do you think? The oil I drained was pretty black but flowed really well and wasn't thick or chunky...

 

[Davea Lux]

We had hooked up a battery before I bought it and cranked it no problem for less than 5 seconds just to make sure it spins. That nasty stuff was very powdery and vacuumed right up....want to make sure you noticed that some pics were before and others after vacuuming.. going to put some oil in the cylinders....I was thinking something that would "mist" so it would spread across as much surface as possible because I think if I just squirt some in it will simply pool at the lowest point....what do you think? The oil I drained was pretty black but flowed really well and wasn't thick or chunky...

I would be worried about the rust and other gunk on the inside of the rocker shaft where you can not see it, that is why I suggested tanking the shafts. Misting the oil in the cylinders is a good idea or you could just run about 3-4 oz of diesel in each and crank the engine over to blow out the excess. Most of the moisture collects on the bottom side of the piston as that is the lowest point and that is where you would most likely find rust on the cylinder walls.

Dave