74-78 Idler Arm Discontinued

[Austin Barnett]

Hey guys, I'm new here so if this has already been covered somewhere and I just missed it, I apologize and feel free to delete the thread. Otherwise...
The idler arm on my '76 Newport started making a racket, the threaded end (whaddaya call that?) is moving up and down in the arm. Went to order one from my local parts store (Moog K7073). Long story short they discovered the part was discontinued, but they failed to tell me for nearly 2 weeks until I stopped by to ask when I was getting my part. Went to order it myself from Moog, as it showed in stock on their website. Order went through fine. Lo and behold, I get an email the following morning saying the part is discontinued and not in stock, and they issued me a refund. I found the part from another website that had it in stock, it's now in my lap and will hopefully go in the car tonight or tomorrow. Just wanted to make people aware that getting this part in the future might get quite difficult!

 

[CBODY67]

I suspect the part had been on "mfg phaseout" for a while, for various reasons. Most auto supply chains have their own warehouse chains to pull from, but might also have some larger jobber warehouses they can get into, also, IF desired. But with modern computerized inventory controls (non-emotional), not much chance for some things to be hidden from view.

There are a few vendors which have their own network of sorts on finding parts, as Craig @ Mobileparts, who is a member/sponsor here, is one. Who can help get needed parts to where they need to be and also reward those old-line auto supplies for staying around and being active. WIN WIN!

Thanks for the info,
CBODY67

 

[1978 NYB]

You are about to find out that the Moog idler arm isn't going to fit very good. It has shims that won't fit with the idler arm without hammering them in place. I didn't install the Moog idler and found a NOS idler arm and installed that.

I'm pretty sure Brad has NOS idler arm's for Formal's. He is pricey but you are getting a NOS part that fits like a glove and more than likely you will never have to replace again.

Home - Brad's NOS Parts

 

[Walter Joy]

Other places to look- Ebay, Facebook, and our own @mobileparts , who I have bought obsolete parts from before.

 

[1978 NYB]

Another great source for NOS parts is Marty at

www.arizona.parts.com

 

[marko]

i just replaced mine with a Spicer part, cant find the # right now

 

[Austin Barnett]

Got the old one out and the Moog in. While I obviously can't speak for the experiences of other people, mine didn't give me much fuss at all, just the usual prying with a screwdriver and bolt to get the bushing/washers to line up. No hammering necessary. Maybe they got the bushing length closer to spec in later production? Thanks for the suggestions on alternate parts suppliers, I'll check them out in the future if I have issues finding good parts.
Also noticed the old idler arm had NO grease fittings. Moog part has 2. I like using NOS, but I also like being able to service all parts that use grease!
Now my next question is, is there a comprehensive diagram anywhere of how the auto temp II system is put together on these 74-78 cars? I have seen the list of basic things to check on newyorkeronline.org and the list of tips at imperialclub.com , but I would love to have an actual diagram to look at so that I know what I'm actually look at/looking for. I have no function of anything on the ATCII in my car, and just need heat at this point. I don't want to go through a 3rd winter with no defrost! No blown fuses, blower motor will spin up if 12v is applied to it directly. There is a shop in a nearby city that specializes in heating/air systems, and I might give them a call this week to see if they know anything about the system, and if they would like to take a look at it, but I would prefer to just fix it myself if at all possible.

 

[Mr C]

When you push the buttons with the engine running (you need vacuum) you have no fan in any mode? Do you hear the servo whirr? Fuses good?

Pop off the dash and you can see most items. There are 2 vacuum switches on a bracket (green and yellow) that activate the fan. You can jump them to verify the fan is good.

Normally this is dead (the amplifier) Located on the passenger side lower edge of air box.

If everything else is there are in good order, then plugging in a good amplifier often results in the functions coming to life as it sends the signals to the servo.

The servo is often blamed on Formals, but I have never seen a bad one...they are very robust.

 

[Austin Barnett]

Edit 2: I got it blowing heat! I had pulled the 30A fuse out for troubleshooting purposes and didn't put it in after reconnecting the purple vacuum line. All the electronics knowledge in the world can't save me from my own dumbassery
Works in defrost AND auto! I'll check AC tomorrow, but I've got very low hopes for that. For now, I can drive my car when it's cold! (Except when there's salt! I actually kind of like this car!) Thanks for the help guys.

Got the dash off, and when pressing buttons on the control panel, I can hear noises from the servo. It also makes noises after shutting the car off. This is while I have the green and yellow vacuum switch terminals jumped. The yellow one clearly opens/closes a relay, the noise is audible and I can see the relay. The green terminals don't make any noises/changes when jumped as far as I can tell. The blower doesn't blow when these 2 vacuum switch terminals are jumped either. The amplifier LOOKS to be in OK condition, but whether or not that means anything is up for interpretation.

I had a purple vacuum line running to the vacuum canister under the hood, it was melted and the canister had been capped off to stop the leak. I spliced the line with some Tygon tubing and got it hooked back up to the canister. It's holding vacuum.

With the purple vacuum line hooked back up, the yellow vacuum switch works properly now, hooked up with the car running it will engage that relay. Green still doesn't make any changes that I can tell. No blower motor noises either.

If my issue lies in the amplifier, can the amplifier be serviced in any way? I have some component-level electronics experience from a couple classes I took in high school, and I also do the occasional audio amplifier repair at my job. I realize this is a different "amplifier" that we are talking about, but if it is an electronic issue I might be able to do something about that. Unless its a vacuum related thing, in which case nevermind haha.

Edit: I took a passing glance at the amplifier and saw electronic components, and at that point I could smell blood in the water and popped it right off the air box and pulled the board out of that plastic housing. This is a very rudimentary circuit, definitely circa 1970's haha. I'm gonna do some poking and prodding and see what I can learn! I did find a diode that looks like it MIGHT be busted, shows a breakdown voltage of ~.8V in the backwards direction. But that was while it's still in the board. I'll remove it tomorrow and test it again to see if it is indeed bad. Being able to service this amplifier myself would be pretty kickass, and being so simply put together, I don't know what I couldn't. Also do you have a better electrical diagram of the system, in particular what is going to the amplifier? The image you gave me is difficult to read. I'm reading through the "what I learned about 74-78 ATCII" thread posted by '73 T&C'. Lots of good info!

 

[Mr C]

I have been on and off self teaching myself on ATC II for the last 20 + years. The system is in many ways simple...the difficulty is in knowing what pieces do what. Once I figured that out I got to the point where I can focus on the standard mechanical repairs.

If you hear the servo changing modes, the amplifier is doing something. What you need to do now is cycle the different modes and see if the air changes direction through the dash vents/ defrost vents as it should...that's all the servo and amplifier do. If one of the modes is not working, then the amplifier is bad for that function and no longer sending signals. As far as I'm concerned the amplifier is a black box where magical voodoo happens...I'm not an electrical guy! For me it's a replacement part...hats off to you if you can do circuit board stuff!

For example- on my car (77 T&C) I had only defrost modes for the longest time. I parted a car and, on a whim, swapped amplifiers and my whole system came to life! For the first time in 10 years I had all modes (Vent, Lo/ Hi Auto and Lo/Hi Def). All I need to do now on my car is standard A/C servicing to get cold air (evacuate system- see if it holds vacuum/ repair leaks (probably rebuild compressor, new oil, expansion valve...yadda yadda).

Soup can and purple line are vital as they supply all the internal vacuum for the system. Since you have heat and defrost...sounds like you're good here now.

Apologies for my initial bad direction on the vacuum switches...getting old and forgetful! LOL!, I checked my FSM and only green switch is blower motor.
The yellow switch is called the "Compressor switch" and is activated at 2 inches vacuum to complete circuit to compressor clutch (turn on compressor).

The green switch is the "Master Switch" and is for the blower motor. completes circuit to blower motor when 8+ inches vacuum applied.

As for better wire diagrams the only thing I can do is direct you into getting an FSM...everything is there.

 

[marty koirtyohann]

Hey guys, I'm new here so if this has already been covered somewhere and I just missed it, I apologize and feel free to delete the thread. Otherwise...
The idler arm on my '76 Newport started making a racket, the threaded end (whaddaya call that?) is moving up and down in the arm. Went to order one from my local parts store (Moog K7073). Long story short they discovered the part was discontinued, but they failed to tell me for nearly 2 weeks until I stopped by to ask when I was getting my part. Went to order it myself from Moog, as it showed in stock on their website. Order went through fine. Lo and behold, I get an email the following morning saying the part is discontinued and not in stock, and they issued me a refund. I found the part from another website that had it in stock, it's now in my lap and will hopefully go in the car tonight or tomorrow. Just wanted to make people aware that getting this part in the future might get quite difficult!

try rock auto or ebay

 

[JIM ROPER]

I just ordered the Moog K7073 from RockAuto.