A shout out to Steve/Safeforwardlook.

commando1

Old Man with a Hat
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Can you tell us about the 1974 Chrysler recall for rigging emissions tests with a radiator temp. sensor?
Always enjoy history lessons on stuff nobody thinks about.
 
Not a Tablet fan, But never the less I look Forward to Steve's History lesson ;)
 
Can you tell us about the 1974 Chrysler recall for rigging emissions tests with a radiator temp. sensor?
Always enjoy history lessons on stuff nobody thinks about.

I hate to disappoint you on this one, but I am not recalling that issue. There was a coolant temperature sensor in the radiator that would regulate turning on the exhaust gas recirculation system (EGR) but that was a legal sensor that prevented EGR operation during cold weather cold starts until the engine warmed up. It was used to prevent stalls and poor driveability during that period, but I do not recall that they purposely tried to rig the tests in 1974. The temperature operating range of the official emission test called the constant volume sample (CVS) test was 68F to 86F. I worked in the California engineering center and I am pretty sure that issue did not affect the California system, but maybe something happened on the Federal cars. For example, maybe the temp sensor was calibrated to shut off the EGR system at too high a temperature (but less than 68F) and that might have been an issue in colder states. The temperature above which the sensor would not be able to turn off EGR was 50F I believe. I will check with a friend of mine to get the dirty details and get back with you if I can find something.

There was only one time that I was told to do something illegal on some audit cars that we were required to test at our Chrysler facility and report the results to the Air Resources Board, but I refused to do it. I told my boss at the time if he took action against me because of my refusal, I would see to it that I turned it around on him. And he didn't push it. I actually believed in what we were supposed to be doing because I had to live in that lousy air quality way back then. I developed a running change instead that took care of the problem properly and it didn't really cost anything extra because it was a calibration change that could be approved and implemented in production rapidly. One time, though, when I had to be present when the Air Resources Board picked some production cars to test themselves at their laboratory (to monitor/confirm our in-house audit testing), I had to make sure that all the procedures were properly followed. At lunch time on one of those occasions, when all of the Board techs were at lunch, I saw some representatives of another manufacturer also undergoing confirmatory testing (all I will say it was a German one and not the one currently in the news) install some non- production parts on the selected cars and they didn't realize I saw them, but I never said anything. That was pretty risky for them.

One thing for sure, the incident you cite by Chrysler could not have been something as incredible as what VW has done on their diesels since 2009 - shutting off the nitrogen oxide control system when the car is in normal use, but turning it on only when it is undergoing an official CVS emission test. Something as brash as that might have been done back in the early 80s, but to do it today is just stupid. They deserve what they get on this one, and it won't be cheap. In the U.S. the fine per vehicle can be almost $38,000 on a half million cars, so that their fine would be some $18 billion. Then the cost to fix the cars would add even more. But this cheating affects some 11 million cars worldwide. I thought I had seen everything, but this one is big.
 
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One thing for sure, the incident you cite by Chrysler could not have been something as incredible as what VW has done on their diesels since 2009 - shutting off the nitrogen oxide control system when the car is in normal use, but turning it on only when it is undergoing an official CVS emission test. Something as brash as that might have been done back in the early 80s, but to do it today is just stupid. They deserve what they get on this one, and it won't be cheap. In the U.S. the fine per vehicle can be almost $38,000 on a half million cars, so that their fine would be some $18 billion. Then the cost to fix the cars would add even more. But this cheating affects some 11 million cars worldwide. I thought I had seen everything, but this one is big.

I agree. I am totally dumbfounded by the stupidity of the people involved in the VW subterfuge. In addition to the resignation of the CEO yesterday, I think a lot of heads in the VW diesel program are gonna roll. Look for offers of immunity from prosecution for the testimony of some of these guys. . . This is gonna be wild. . .
 
The VW fiasco is incredible. I sure wouldn't want to own one these cars right now. Who knows what EPA and Fed's will do. They could do something like suspend the registration on ALL of those cars until their emissions are fixed. Fed's could make VW buy back the cars.
 
Steve..... I and the others here at FCBO never tire of hearing about your experiences at Chrysler. Please feel free to share all and anything unique that you have been involved in.

We should have a separate folder for "Safeforwardlook Historical".
 
I agree. I am totally dumbfounded by the stupidity of the people involved in the VW subterfuge. .


Really? It costs these companies millions if not billions to comply with regulations. If they can save that money by writing code, you know they're going to do it. You're taking tens of thousands vs millions/billions. They just have to remember to not piss of or fire the guy that wrote the code. It's what happens when you have lawyers writing emission standards.
 
Really? It costs these companies millions if not billions to comply with regulations. If they can save that money by writing code, you know they're going to do it. You're taking tens of thousands vs millions/billions. They just have to remember to not piss of or fire the guy that wrote the code. It's what happens when you have lawyers writing emission standards.

Yes. Really. Too many people are involved in this lie. Any fool should know the truth would come out sooner or later. The damage to the company, its stock price and reputation is probably incalculable. The tens of thousands they spent diddling with the clandestine ECU code has now resulted in exposure to millions and billions in fines and God knows how much money in vehicle recall and repair expenses. Yes. Really.
 
If the millions/billions in costs for not complying is less than the millions/billions they make for not complying, they'll not comply every time.

As the say when you get screwed, Don't take it personally. It's just business. :D


My belief is this:
In a corporation where there are a gazillion layers of management, the info that starts at bottom, works its way up the gazillion layers with the info repeated to each layer up the piles of management alway put forth in the best light because that's what the next layer wants.
The "coding" was most likely done under contract by someone not even employed by VW.
All the very top management ever "heard" was, "we're compliant, boss".

What failed, is there rarely is a system of Checks and Balances in the corporate environment. Because they net more money in the end without Balances. Even after paying the costs of not having Balances. So why bother paying for it

Everybody gets a fat bonus, pension, and a plaque except each janitor who swept the crap into the trash can that would never be seen by the next layer up.

The corporate structure is corrupt, defective and evil. But it's all we have.

So next, we have the number of government regulations exploding exponentially to deal with the failings of the corporate structure.
Aha, who creates these laws and regulations? Politicians who vote strictly on a ,"Gimme this and I'll givya that" basis financed by lobbyists paid for by corporations.

It's ugly out there...
 
We could also go another route and say, emission standarts nowadays get "unrealistic" to archieve and a company does whatever so that it looks fine on the printout. They came up with a good idead to meet those standarts, if it was the right one... probably not lol. I always had issues with my "older car" over in europe and at the inspection the tester needs to push the ok button at the right time when someone pulls the thing out of the exhaust. If you tune up the car so it runs, it wont meet emissions, if you tune it for emissiins it wont run right. Its common practice.

Me and my wife were actually looking into buying a used jetta tdi but oh well, now we will wait and see. regardless, its a scandal and will probably cost a couple 10.000 people their jobs, thats the reality.
 
Me and my wife were actually looking into buying a used jetta tdi but oh well, now we will wait and see.
There has never been a better time to buy a used TDi.
I'm sure their value went over a cliff this week.
So you spew out 40x the whatever the crap that is allowed to spew out.
The bulldozer on that construction sight you drive by spews out in a minute what your supposedly "dirty" car will spew out in a year.
 
There has never been a better time to buy a used TDi.
I'm sure their value went over a cliff this week.
So you spew out 40x the whatever the crap that is allowed to spew out.
The bulldozer on that construction sight you drive by spews out in a minute what your supposedly "dirty" car will spew out in a year.

Do you think the EPA/Feds/States will make them illegal to drive in the U.S. until the emissions are fixed?
 
Do you think the EPA/Feds/States will make them illegal to drive in the U.S. until the emissions are fixed?
I would guess if your car is on that list of dirty vehicles, they'll nab you if you are subject to inspections.
Where I am, we have no inspections. Safety nor emissions. You wouldn't believe the crapboxes driving around.

You can have the dirtiest diesel pickup truck spewing out more black smoke than a tire dump on fire and nothing will happen to you.
If that truck has a license plate light out, you WILL get pulled over so Rin Tin Tin can hop up on your door window and sniff for weed.
 
I guess they'll be banned in California and Maryland......crazy, crazy stuff in these states.

Did you know we have a rain tax in Maryland? Yep, you are taxed on the square footage of your roof that the rain is carrying pollution from and contaminating the planet. I'm not even kidding about this!
 
A-yep! Pt-ting! Ours found a suspicious package!
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