I've been using Shell Rotella diesel oil for my 75 New Yorker cause it has ZDDP for flat tappet engines. Read an ad for Valvoline VR1 oil. They said the diesel oil has the wrong ZDDP for flat tappets and the Valvoline VRI has the right ZDDP. I don't understand the difference in ZDDP. Has anyone tried the Valvoline VR1 oil in their 440 engine? Paul
anyone try Valvoline VR1
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Mr. Lake Speed, Jr. "The Motor Oil Geek" mentions this in some of his videos. About diesel zddp not being the same as gas engine zddp. Due to the longer drain intervals over-the-road diesels have, apparently the diesel zddp is sloer-acting or something?
BUT, diesels also have many moving/rubbing parts in the valve train. Plus main bearings which have loads, too.
In one of his earlier videos, he compares the Castrol GTX and Castrol GTX Classic (which has the old levels of zddp it had in the 1980s or so. Lots of calcium, too, which is the bane of gas-direct-injected motors, as to piston ring damage and worse. He notes that with the high gas zddp oil, main bearing wear is less, by comparison.
In one of his more recent videos, he mentions, in passing, that diesel oil will wipe cam lobes as high zddp oil for a gas motor will not. Given the "racing" orientation possibility of that motor, it means high lift, high spring pressure, and 6000rpm levels, BUT he does not elaborate on these things!
Another unsuspected possibility is black bottle Castrol synthetic 5W-30, with an API rating of "SL", which is the last oil rating with 1000ppm of zddp in it. The local WalMart has it, generally.
ONE thing he does mention is that with the reduced calcium component in the additive package of current API SP-rated oils, it allows the gas zddp to be more effective at its lower concentrations. zddp concentrations of up to 900ppm, for reference.
I believe that all viscosities and formulations (dino or syn) of VR-1 all have 1400 ppm of zddp, just as the other "high zddp" motor oils do. Being it is Valvoline, availability can be better than some of the more-boutique brands as Driven, Amsoil, Brad Penn, and similar. Meaning, in many cases, WalMart or similar. Rather than ordering it from Jegs, Summit, or from a local speed shop.
NO oil will immediately kaput a motor due to lobe wear in one oil change, I suspect. Over time, yes.
Enjoy!
CBODY67
BUT, diesels also have many moving/rubbing parts in the valve train. Plus main bearings which have loads, too.
In one of his earlier videos, he compares the Castrol GTX and Castrol GTX Classic (which has the old levels of zddp it had in the 1980s or so. Lots of calcium, too, which is the bane of gas-direct-injected motors, as to piston ring damage and worse. He notes that with the high gas zddp oil, main bearing wear is less, by comparison.
In one of his more recent videos, he mentions, in passing, that diesel oil will wipe cam lobes as high zddp oil for a gas motor will not. Given the "racing" orientation possibility of that motor, it means high lift, high spring pressure, and 6000rpm levels, BUT he does not elaborate on these things!
Another unsuspected possibility is black bottle Castrol synthetic 5W-30, with an API rating of "SL", which is the last oil rating with 1000ppm of zddp in it. The local WalMart has it, generally.
ONE thing he does mention is that with the reduced calcium component in the additive package of current API SP-rated oils, it allows the gas zddp to be more effective at its lower concentrations. zddp concentrations of up to 900ppm, for reference.
I believe that all viscosities and formulations (dino or syn) of VR-1 all have 1400 ppm of zddp, just as the other "high zddp" motor oils do. Being it is Valvoline, availability can be better than some of the more-boutique brands as Driven, Amsoil, Brad Penn, and similar. Meaning, in many cases, WalMart or similar. Rather than ordering it from Jegs, Summit, or from a local speed shop.
NO oil will immediately kaput a motor due to lobe wear in one oil change, I suspect. Over time, yes.
Enjoy!
CBODY67
Rainy Day
Member
My local Wally world started carrying the Vr1 in the weight I use. Been running it in my fresh flat tappet engine since it was built, no issues.
57fury440
Well-Known Member
I've been using this.
bronze turbine
Active Member
VR-1 is great oil, but it's not recommended for cars that sit a lot and don't get driven often. I would recommend something specifically for classics and hot-rods.
73Coupe
Senior Member
VR-1 is racing oil and designed for a racing environment - lower detergents, high frequency change intervals.
Diesel oil is designed for running in diesel engines - very high detergents, long change intervals, etc.
For a gas engine I just use regular old conventional oil. Valvoline (Napa house brand), other off the shelf brands, or Kendall or PennGrade if you want to step it up. Use the ultra concentrated zddp additive if you please but it's probably not going to matter.
Diesel oil is designed for running in diesel engines - very high detergents, long change intervals, etc.
For a gas engine I just use regular old conventional oil. Valvoline (Napa house brand), other off the shelf brands, or Kendall or PennGrade if you want to step it up. Use the ultra concentrated zddp additive if you please but it's probably not going to matter.
Calcium is supposed to be a detergent additive. Gas DI engines specifically need less calcium to keep from destroying themselves. So it was decreased, as gas zddp has been increased a few hundred ppm. The two need to be in something of a relationship for best results.
From prior postings at www.bobistheoilguy.com and a chart I found of oils that Speedway Motors sells, REAL racing oil has over 2000ppm of zddp in it. Those oils need a minimum of detergents as they are changed every 500miles or so anyway. Some of the oils they sell as "break-in" oil have similar zddp levels.
Earlier, I did a Google search for zddp types and Google AI came up with information on "primary" zddp and secondary zddp, related to gas motors or diesel motors. Explaining which one went where. Seems that diesel oil only has the secondary zddp, as gas oil has primary with a smaller amount of secondary. More investigations need to happen past that, to me, to have a better understanding of things. The quest for information continues.
To me, a diesel oil would have a superior additive pack than a gas motor, due to the need to keep contaminants suspended in the oil for 50K miles between changes. "Dispersancy". I believe, is what its called. Not sure that will turn up on an oil analysis report? I do remember seeing a flyer on Rotella T for when it was upgraded to "CK"(?) and how much better detergency it had compared to the then-existing oil it replaced.
Used to be that, at the OEM level, viscosity 15W-40 was dino diesel oil and syn diesel oil was 5W-40. Not sure how those were determined, but they were specific to diesel oils, back then. In modern times, things have gotten much blurrier! Then can the confusing Rotella T "Gas Truck" oil, which to me, is just re-packaged "car" oil in a different bottle, with "car" additive packages. Then "Euro Supercar" oils came out with 5W-40 viscosities, to further complicate things. End result, CANNOT recommend oils on viscosity levels as in the past, regarding diesel-specific oils.
In order to make a good, informed decision . . . read the oil analysis reports at www.bobistheoilguy.com forums and also at www. PQIA.com, as to zddp levels and such.
Take care,
CBODY67
From prior postings at www.bobistheoilguy.com and a chart I found of oils that Speedway Motors sells, REAL racing oil has over 2000ppm of zddp in it. Those oils need a minimum of detergents as they are changed every 500miles or so anyway. Some of the oils they sell as "break-in" oil have similar zddp levels.
Earlier, I did a Google search for zddp types and Google AI came up with information on "primary" zddp and secondary zddp, related to gas motors or diesel motors. Explaining which one went where. Seems that diesel oil only has the secondary zddp, as gas oil has primary with a smaller amount of secondary. More investigations need to happen past that, to me, to have a better understanding of things. The quest for information continues.
To me, a diesel oil would have a superior additive pack than a gas motor, due to the need to keep contaminants suspended in the oil for 50K miles between changes. "Dispersancy". I believe, is what its called. Not sure that will turn up on an oil analysis report? I do remember seeing a flyer on Rotella T for when it was upgraded to "CK"(?) and how much better detergency it had compared to the then-existing oil it replaced.
Used to be that, at the OEM level, viscosity 15W-40 was dino diesel oil and syn diesel oil was 5W-40. Not sure how those were determined, but they were specific to diesel oils, back then. In modern times, things have gotten much blurrier! Then can the confusing Rotella T "Gas Truck" oil, which to me, is just re-packaged "car" oil in a different bottle, with "car" additive packages. Then "Euro Supercar" oils came out with 5W-40 viscosities, to further complicate things. End result, CANNOT recommend oils on viscosity levels as in the past, regarding diesel-specific oils.
In order to make a good, informed decision . . . read the oil analysis reports at www.bobistheoilguy.com forums and also at www. PQIA.com, as to zddp levels and such.
Take care,
CBODY67
65CopCar
Active Member
I lost at least one (maybe 2) cams using VR1. Don't know if it was VR1's fault or not. Today I use Driven oil.
1970FuryConv
Old Man with a Hat
I use Joe Gibbs Driven 5W-30 oil that I buy from Hughes Engines. Has done well through 3 years of use in a rebuilt 440, 9.2:1 compression. Street use, not driven in winters
Blusmbl
Member
Not sure how loose the tolerances are on your motor, but the 15w50 Mobil 1 (only the 15w50, not their other weights) has enough zinc for flat tappet cams. I've been running it in the 440 in my car with the .590 MP solid cam for 3+ years with no issues, but the motor has been together since the early 2000's so it was properly broken in before the zinc was removed from most conventional oils.
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