Base/Clear PPG Paint Code Assistance

[dodge440]

Looking for some assistance with a PPG Base/Clear paint code for my 1965 Plymouth Sport Fury, which is a TT1 Medium Red Poly, Ditzler 7146. The friend that is helping with this project has a paint supplier he uses for his projects and they are telling us we need to "spray it out" in single stage to then match this color in PPG Base/Clear. I find it hard to believe the PPG library doesn't have a cross match for this color in Base/Clear but what do I know, I am not a body shop nor do I understand the paint business. I am hoping someone on this forum can help me identify the correct PPG paint code that matches this color or if the only way is to do the single stage spray out you could let me know that as well. Thank you all in advance for any assistance.

 

[MoPar~Man]

Are you looking to do a single-stage only - with no clear? Is that why the color matching issue is coming up? Is this a metalic color?

 

[marko]

its metallic - thats what poly means

 

[CBODY67]

Looking for some assistance with a PPG Base/Clear paint code for my 1965 Plymouth Sport Fury, which is a TT1 Medium Red Poly, Ditzler 7146. The friend that is helping with this project has a paint supplier he uses for his projects and they are telling us we need to "spray it out" in single stage to then match this color in PPG Base/Clear. I find it hard to believe the PPG library doesn't have a cross match for this color in Base/Clear but what do I know, I am not a body shop nor do I understand the paint business. I am hoping someone on this forum can help me identify the correct PPG paint code that matches this color or if the only way is to do the single stage spray out you could let me know that as well. Thank you all in advance for any assistance.

Although places like TCPGlobal sell the orig paint colors, in single or BC/CC, "out in the field", over the decades since the orig paint was sprayed at the factory, automotive paint systems have gone through a huge multitude of changes. Especially as to pigments! Meaning the formulas used to make the colors. The older pigments (listed in the orig formulas) have been gone for years, some with modern equivalents and some apparently not. Not to mention the number of times the equivalents have been updated with the new pigments. So, what your local people are saying is more true than not.

BUT, in reality, the "spray it out" method of "hand matching" has been around well before your car was originally painted. In the case of a "spot re-spray", the original paint would be on the car long enough for UV light to fade it. If the body shop ordered some "factory pack" pints, it would be the un-faded color rather than what came to be on the car, with age and exposure. In those cases, the "hand match"/"sprayed-out match" was necessary for the best initial match.

With a single-stage paint, what you sprayed is what you got, color-wise. With a basecoat/clearcoat paint, until the LAST coat of clear is applied, the match was not as good as it should be, until that last coat of clear. DuPont had some video tutorials how to do panel matches with BC/CC for an exact match (using factory-pack paint). Plus how to fade/blend/match the adjacent panels.

BUT, according to the Chrysler factory service manual, the air pressure used to shoot any metallic color can vary the color a bit due to how the metallic items lay out. YIKES!! which can make an acccurately-matched/mixed paint (base color) appear either correct, lighter, or darker due to the metallic fleck orientation.

You MIGHT need to get a color match to the underside of the deck lid, by a spectrometer, to locally-generate a color formula for the initial "spray out" color. Then tweak as needed.

One side issue is that the various "undercoats" (as in primers, sealers, etc.) can have a bearing on the final color, too.

Just some thoughts and observations,
CBODY67

 

[azblackhemi]

I have painted many classics over the years and now have to jump through hoops when it comes to finding the right colors. As @CBODY67 mentioned the toners and formulas have changed greatly. I generally use PPG paints myself and the Deltron line is my first choice. However some old colors no longer have a formula in certain lines. I've had to go to other manufacturers such as Dupont or Matrix. Even with a formula it still takes doing a spray out and tinting (adjusting) the color to get it right. Does your Sport Fury have any good original paint left on it? Maybe under the trunk lid? If so any good paint jobber can do a computer match and find the best available formula. Regardless of what paint I buy I first get a 2 oz sample and do a spray out before I spend a thousand dollars plus on paint.

 

[dodge440]

Are you looking to do a single-stage only - with no clear? Is that why the color matching issue is coming up? Is this a metalic color?

Doing base/clear, just want to understand how the paint codes work for automobiles and get as close to the original color as possible in base/clear.

 

[dodge440]

Although places like TCPGlobal sell the orig paint colors, in single or BC/CC, "out in the field", over the decades since the orig paint was sprayed at the factory, automotive paint systems have gone through a huge multitude of changes. Especially as to pigments! Meaning the formulas used to make the colors. The older pigments (listed in the orig formulas) have been gone for years, some with modern equivalents and some apparently not. Not to mention the number of times the equivalents have been updated with the new pigments. So, what your local people are saying is more true than not.

BUT, in reality, the "spray it out" method of "hand matching" has been around well before your car was originally painted. In the case of a "spot re-spray", the original paint would be on the car long enough for UV light to fade it. If the body shop ordered some "factory pack" pints, it would be the un-faded color rather than what came to be on the car, with age and exposure. In those cases, the "hand match"/"sprayed-out match" was necessary for the best initial match.

With a single-stage paint, what you sprayed is what you got, color-wise. With a basecoat/clearcoat paint, until the LAST coat of clear is applied, the match was not as good as it should be, until that last coat of clear. DuPont had some video tutorials how to do panel matches with BC/CC for an exact match (using factory-pack paint). Plus how to fade/blend/match the adjacent panels.

BUT, according to the Chrysler factory service manual, the air pressure used to shoot any metallic color can vary the color a bit due to how the metallic items lay out. YIKES!! which can make an acccurately-matched/mixed paint (base color) appear either correct, lighter, or darker due to the metallic fleck orientation.

You MIGHT need to get a color match to the underside of the deck lid, by a spectrometer, to locally-generate a color formula for the initial "spray out" color. Then tweak as needed.

One side issue is that the various "undercoats" (as in primers, sealers, etc.) can have a bearing on the final color, too.

Just some thoughts and observations,
CBODY67

Thank you this is very helpful. It sounds like there are going to be multiple steps to get this paint correct and it is not as straight forward as I thought. I am not sure there will be any original paint left on the car, I will have to look, I have an original fender skit but it has one repaint. He took this down pretty much to bare metal and its now in primer. Also interesting information about the undercoats.

 

[dodge440]

I have painted many classics over the years and now have to jump through hoops when it comes to finding the right colors. As @CBODY67 mentioned the toners and formulas have changed greatly. I generally use PPG paints myself and the Deltron line is my first choice. However some old colors no longer have a formula in certain lines. I've had to go to other manufacturers such as Dupont or Matrix. Even with a formula it still takes doing a spray out and tinting (adjusting) the color to get it right. Does your Sport Fury have any good original paint left on it? Maybe under the trunk lid? If so any good paint jobber can do a computer match and find the best available formula. Regardless of what paint I buy I first get a 2 oz sample and do a spray out before I spend a thousand dollars plus on paint.

Thank you, sounds like this will be the approach we will need to take, I am hoping I can find somewhere on the car that will give us a start.