Carb OPINIONS Desired...

[cantflip]

I have been kicking around the Edelbrock 1406 for sometime... I do believe for my intended use/driving style that 600 cfm will be fine and I desire a little better low rpm "pep". Better fuel economy wouldn't hurt either.

I have the NYB to be my "test mule" before I get any squirrelly ideas with an Imperial.

My cheap nature is currently preventing me from purchasing new, so if someone has one they want to sell, feel free to PM me. Warning, I am cheap, and have determined a complete, clean used one is worth about $100-200 depending on goodies, condition and shipping to Orlando.

Looking at the older Carter's of similar design. I noticed they have bowl vents. I wonder if that is really a + or - though. Seems it would be simple enough to drill the vent in the Ede's if it was desired.

The other thought has been a reconditioned Holley 1900... but I screwed around and they are currently out of stock (EB $220). Not too sure about the Holley, but I am intrigued.

BTW, I have asked and received some info before, no disrespect to those folks... just kind fooling around with this thought. I wouldn't want to start experimenting on anything I had recently invested in engine work on, so the timing is good for me now. I also will need to do something with the factory Holley on the bus to run or sell it... and have been thinking Edelbrock for some time... that gives me options down the road to use whatever I accumulate.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

The Eddy's have vents they are in the choke horn.
What is wrong with you TQ's?
The 1900 I have heard good and bad and take all that with a grain of salt.

 

[TNT-C]

I may have an old Edelbrock but will have to check the numbers on it to see the cfm. I'll try and do that later today when I am back home.

 

[cantflip]

The Eddy's have vents they are in the choke horn.
What is wrong with you TQ's?
The 1900 I have heard good and bad and take all that with a grain of salt.

Nothing really, the NYB has a very slight bog at tip in that I am sure a cleanup and accelerator pump would cure nicely... but that just makes it the right time to try something new.

I'm an idiot about the bowl vent statement, I know they have one... I was actually referring to the hookup for the canister... maybe if I cared about it.

 

[saforwardlook]

The Eddy's have vents they are in the choke horn.
What is wrong with you TQ's?

Sure they have bowl vents, but what good are they in that location (air horn) when they just "vent" into the engine making for hard hot starting and don't help in hot weather driving in general compared to those that vent to the atmosphere or canister?

Also, in direct response to Cantflip's question:

I agree with the choice of the 600 CFM Edelbrock for most driving as it gives more low end torque. But lately, people that have bought Edelbrocks are experiencing some driveability problems off idle, like they have leaned out the off- idle circuits/transfer slots or something, because I have had older Edelbrocks that perform brilliantly at low speed tip in, but in the last couple cars with new ones that have been installed, they have stumbles and surging off idle, meaning things are too lean, and the carburetors that they replaced did not exhibit that specific problem before the swap. So I would recommend getting an older Edelbrock and skip the newer junk.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

older Edelbrocks that perform brilliantly at low speed tip in, but in the last couple cars with new ones that have been installed, they have stumbles and surging off idle, meaning things are too lean, and the carburetors that they replaced did not exhibit that specific problem before the swap. So I would recommend getting an older Edelbrock and skip the newer junk.

I wonder if they have changed the nozzle or shooter size in later years.
If anyone has a old one and knows the shooter size and also newer one and knows or willing to look to see wonder if there is a difference in a 1406 or old and new on a 1411. I don't have any more Eddy's here I sent the one I had home.

 

[Slantsix]

Go EFI

 

[Turboomni]

I have thought about EFI. I would like to see what it looks like with all the extra stuff under the hood, but I know it is an improvement over a carb. That said I am happy with my 1406 on the 440. I did go one step richer in cruise with a metering rod swap. But to the question of old vs new 1406 carbs I would just call edelbrock and ask them. They maybe very specific on the differences between the two.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

to the question of old vs new 1406 carbs I would just call edelbrock and ask them

They will tell you they improved it.

 

[Turboomni]

Well maybe if you asked directly "are there any jet and metering rod changes from the older to the recent models as it comes from the factory?"
Might be worth a try,,it is a free 800 call.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

............

 

[Turboomni]

Well you maybe right 70bigblock ,but I am now curious and may call myself tomorrow.

 

[commando1]

Well you maybe right 70bigblock ,but I am now curious and may call myself tomorrow.

Please report back. Thanks.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Well you maybe right 70bigblock ,but I am now curious and may call myself tomorrow.

I don't mean to be a smart *** but thought it would be easier to find out from actual carburetors.

 

[Turboomni]

I didn't think you were being a smart ***. I am curious now and would like to get to the bottom of this. Cantflip's car is a 440 yes?

 

[cantflip]

Sure they have bowl vents, but what good are they in that location (air horn) when they just "vent" into the engine making for hard hot starting and don't help in hot weather driving in general compared to those that vent to the atmosphere or canister?

Also, in direct response to Cantflip's question:

I agree with the choice of the 600 CFM Edelbrock for most driving as it gives more low end torque. But lately, people that have bought Edelbrocks are experiencing some driveability problems off idle, like they have leaned out the off- idle circuits/transfer slots or something, because I have had older Edelbrocks that perform brilliantly at low speed tip in, but in the last couple cars with new ones that have been installed, they have stumbles and surging off idle, meaning things are too lean, and the carburetors that they replaced did not exhibit that specific problem before the swap. So I would recommend getting an older Edelbrock and skip the newer junk.

Exactly one of the people I had hoped would weigh in... I have paid attention to the speculation that the carbs are leaner, it only makes it that I am certain I would be inside it anyhow. Why not just rebuild a used one... then I started noticing the bowl vent on the older stuff. Carter 9636s or sa... my concern there would be if they will work with the newer Edelbrock tuning kits.

Saforwardlook, have you looked into the Holley 1900? It is similar in design to the 1406, but has that big single piece secondary throttle. I have been trying to get my head around if that is really a good thing or not. Either carb would need an adapter as I don't plan to change my intake. At $220 for a factory returned/reconditioned, I was thinking I might try one.

What are your thoughts on EGR control? I have been thinking keep it around for cruise fuel economy... but perhaps I should look for a vacuum delay valve to slow it's opening just a little. I do not have to answer to emissions inspections in FL, but I don't think it would be beneficial to me to block the crossover as I see EGR as more good than harm.

I didn't think you were being a smart ***. I am curious now and would like to get to the bottom of this. Cantflip's car is a 440 yes?

The car in question is a 1976 440. Unless I change up to 10:1 compression, I think 600 CFM will provide me the low and mid range improvements I want. BTW, I like to be able to run pump gas... not happening.

Go EFI

I am going to jump on the very first $200 complete EFI system I find... but TBI is really more like an electric carburetor than anything, PFI would get me excited, but so would a few extra thousands of $$$.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

good are they in that location (air horn) when they just "vent" into the engine making for hard hot starting and don't help in hot weather driving in general compared to those that vent to the atmosphere or canister

The vents on all carburetors are to make sure is atmospheric pressure on the fuel to move it toward the Venturi's. The purge canister is for there not to be any positive pressure in fuel tank and carburetor float bowls while driving and fuel is being agitated it does nothing when vacuum goes away. The vents that open to the atmosphere directly on the top of the float bowl closed at anything but idle and are a bad idea if you ever drive faster than a little old lady. A example being a /6 with a Holley 1920 model carb that under hard braking would allow fuel to possibly spill on a hot exhaust manifold.

My personal opinion and it is just that a opinion is that most universal carbs are a little on the rich side ootb. Like a 1406 on a SBC will run good but be slightly rich same carb on a 440 will be just about perfect to a bit lean. The complaints these days is that everything without editing seems to be running rich so it seems to me that Eddy and others have tried to lean these down and it is showing up now as a drivability problem not rich enough to mask tip in and such. The best solution to this in my opinion is to get a A/F ratio meter if you are going to change from stock. Hopefully Tomni will have the patience to put up with tech line and get some answers.

 

[cantflip]

The vents on all carburetors are to make sure is atmospheric pressure on the fuel to move it toward the Venturi's. The purge canister is for there not to be any positive pressure in fuel tank and carburetor float bowls while driving and fuel is being agitated it does nothing when vacuum goes away. The vents that open to the atmosphere directly on the top of the float bowl closed at anything but idle and are a bad idea if you ever drive faster than a little old lady. A example being a /6 with a Holley 1920 model carb that under hard braking would allow fuel to possibly spill on a hot exhaust manifold.

My personal opinion and it is just that a opinion is that most universal carbs are a little on the rich side ootb. Like a 1406 on a SBC will run good but be slightly rich same carb on a 440 will be just about perfect to a bit lean. The complaints these days is that everything without editing seems to be running rich so it seems to me that Eddy and others have tried to lean these down and it is showing up now as a drivability problem not rich enough to mask tip in and such. The best solution to this in my opinion is to get a A/F ratio meter if you are going to change from stock. Hopefully Tomni will have the patience to put up with tech line and get some answers.

I think we are in agreement here... sorry I misspoke earlier, regarding the vent... read my initial post and thought WTF. I wouldn't want to run the vent open, as you said fuel spillage possibilities and dirt. Air horn is convenient for the manufacturer and stops dumb ones from plugging it. Vent to the canister, and the canister purge will send it back to the intake at cruise, but not, as saforwardlook mentioned, allow the vapors to cause hard starting issues.

 

[Dobalovr]

Hey J - I've had the 1406 on the '70 for a while now and I really like it. Now that the rest of the driveabilty issues have been solved I have been for be tuning it. What I have recently noticed is that it is running very rich at idle to the point of leaving black soot on the driveway and producing black smoke at idle. Plugs are also showing rich. This confuses me as Eddys usually run lean. I think the PO who only used it a couple of times messed with the metering and jets as he gave me 2 calibration kits with the carb. My point is if you buy used i would go through it and set your own metering and jets. Don't assume it's factory. Couple good looking ones for $200-$250 up here

 

[cantflip]

Hey J - I've had the 1406 on the '70 for a while now and I really like it. Now that the rest of the driveabilty issues have been solved I have been for be tuning it. What I have recently noticed is that it is running very rich at idle to the point of leaving black soot on the driveway and producing black smoke at idle. Plugs are also showing rich. This confuses me as Eddys usually run lean. I think the PO who only used it a couple of times messed with the metering and jets as he gave me 2 calibration kits with the carb. My point is if you buy used i would go through it and set your own metering and jets. Don't assume it's factory. Couple good looking ones for $200-$250 up here

Thanks, Yours may need to be cleaned up and check/reset the floats if it was left sitting. fresh fuel through it may wash out the varnish enough for things to return to normal.

I can't pay that much for a used one... I know the first thing I will do is rebuild it. If a member has one to sell, I at least could trust the background info and pictures... the goodies that may come with would be what I would let drive my price up. $300 new carb + $100 stuff for it to work... or half that and a rebuild is my thoughts on the matter. You should see the crap beaten with a hammer or half gutted the jerks on EB keep posting... CL has a couple clean used ones over by Tampa, but I'm too busy/lazy to spend a day of my weekend for that.