Carburetor questions

[300C]

My Holley on my old 68 NYer even after getting rebuilt was also a pos.
Like a Fender guitar the harder you play it the more you have to tune it...lol

Same prob on my "68 300...Mr Edelbrock solved all the Holley carb issues! As for your guitar, it's also like a Selmer saxophone. Fabulous until there's a leak...ugh! Or worn key rods....then it's like any other POS horn!

YAY EDELBROCK...BOO Holley..........for street and driver applications.....

 

[Bjorn1230]

Thanks guys, just ordered a 1406 Edelbrock with electric choke. Hoping for carefree driving from now on and appreciate all the inputs

 

[Profmopar]

In general, a vacuum secondary carb is the most appropriate choice in a C-body. Nonetheless, that list 4777 Holley (650 mechanical secondary - "double pumper") can be made to work with respect to both performance and fuel economy.
The manual choke can be easily reinstated with an appropriate cable.
A renew kit and all the instructions are easily sourced.
Main difference between that carb and a Holley vac secondary 600 or 650 (apart from the secondary actuation method, of course) is the main system air/fuel ratio - the mech secondaries usually (but not always) run richer primary and secondary main systems. To improve matters, one can fit the mech secondary carb with the smaller jets of an equivalently sized vac sec. Jet sizes of stock Holleys are readily available online if you look under "HolleySpecs.pdf". Jets are easily sourced (my tip: buy genuine Holley ones thru Summit or Jegs etc).
Once reassembled with the smaller jets, the double pumper will match the vac secondary for economy if you drive it appropriately. The big advantage of the mechanical carb is that you will be able to feel the increased pedal resistance when the secondaries commence opening (correctly cited above as 40% - the percentage the primaries are open when the secondaries begin to open), and so it is easy to never open them if economy is the goal.
When, or if, you do need the extra power to pass a truck or Chevy, the pedal to the floor opens all 4 barrels instantly. This results in a significant torque increase over a vac secondary at any rev point until the vac secondaries are open fully. On some engines with the vac secondary spring set too heavy, the secondaries NEVER open fully at the rpm that engine can attain.
A 650 DP will work well on a 383 or a 440, and with some cheap jets a renew kit and choke cable, you'll be on the road for way less cash than another whole carb. Of course, if that 650 has a warped baseplate or bent throttle shaft or something equally serious, it'll be cheaper to buy that new (newer) vac secondary after all.
All the best!

 

[ALRUI]

Thanks guys, just ordered a 1406 Edelbrock with electric choke. Hoping for carefree driving from now on and appreciate all the inputs

I believe there a proper linkage kit to make things work properly with our vehicles. Did you order that also?

 

[300C]

Thanks guys, just ordered a 1406 Edelbrock with electric choke. Hoping for carefree driving from now on and appreciate all the inputs

Made all the difference in the world on my '68 300! Happy trails!

 

[Bjorn1230]

Was going to wait until the carburetor arrives to see if there are any linkage issues or not

 

[ALRUI]

Was going to wait until the carburetor arrives to see if there are any linkage issues or not

If I recall there needs to be an adapter for the kick-down unless you're one of the lucky few with the 4 speed I have a part # list somewhere, I'll try to locate it

 

[Bjorn1230]

Is an adapter plate for the 1406 Edelbrock needed for the '68 Slab side, or would that only be for the later models to fit on the intake?

 

[JM_ART]

Watching this thread now. I’d like to swap out my Holley for the AVS2, too. Probably 650 cfm I’m thinking, as long as it’ll more-or-less bolt straight up to the 440. It sounds like a great carb.

 

[ALRUI]

Watching this thread now. I’d like to swap out my Holley for the AVS2, too. Probably 650 cfm I’m thinking, as long as it’ll more-or-less bolt straight up to the 440. It sounds like a great carb.

you may want to talk to Edelbrock tech as they recommended a 650 for my stock 383 that's a 2 bbl motor. I've had 440'd and a 750 would probably suit you better but talk to them to be sure.

 

[JM_ART]

you may want to talk to Edelbrock tech as they recommended a 650 for my stock 383 that's a 2 bbl motor. I've had 440'd and a 750 would probably suit you better but talk to them to be sure.

I should do that. I’ve just been reading a few posts here and there, and read about the carb in Edelbrock’s website. A lot of people seem to like it. My engine was rebuilt, but definitely has no high performance pretensions. Drivability and having something that doesn’t have to constantly be tuned and fixed are big considerations.

Also, are these okay with pump gas? Edelbrock say they aren’t, at least that’s what I thought I read in the product description.

 

[ALRUI]

I should do that. I’ve just been reading a few posts here and there, and read about the carb in Edelbrock’s website. A lot of people seem to like it. My engine was rebuilt, but definitely has no high performance pretensions. Drivability and having something that doesn’t have to constantly be tuned and fixed are big considerations.

Also, are these okay with pump gas? Edelbrock say they aren’t, at least that’s what I thought I read in the product description.

This is from the AVS2 manual, sadly I think they worded it wrong where they say "two types of blended fuels are available. Ethanol should be A-OK just not the higher percentage ethanol (E85). It looks like the AVS2 is offered in 650 then jumps to 800 CFM which seems to me to be to big for the stock 440. There is a 750 Performer but it doesnt have the anular venturi the AVS2 has.

Performer Carburetor #1411 750 CFM With Electric Choke, Satin Finish (Non-EGR)

"BLENDED FUELS" Typically, two types of blended fuels are available: Gasohol and gasahol. Gasohol is a blend of not more than 10% ethanol and gasoline. As long as there is no more than 10% ethanol mixed with the gasoline your carburetor will function properly. As the percentage of ethanol climbs above 10%, a richer A/F ratio will be required. Also, because gasohol is more volatile than gasoline, hard hot starting and poor hot weather driveability may result. Gasahol can be a blend of either ethanol, methanol or other alcohol with gasoline. Methanol blended fuel should not be used in your Edelbrock Performer Series carburetor as it will cause corrosion of the fuel system components. It can also cause rapid failure of seals, gaskets, diaphragms and pump plungers. Always check to see if you are using a blended fuel. Although the pump may not indicate the fuel is blended, it is always advisable to verify the type of fuel the station carries. Under no circumstance should E85 fuel be used with Edelbrock carburetors."

 

[JM_ART]

This is from the AVS2 manual, sadly I think they worded it wrong where they say "two types of blended fuels are available. Ethanol should be A-OK just not the higher percentage ethanol (E85). It looks like the AVS2 is offered in 650 then jumps to 800 CFM which seems to me to be to big for the stock 440. There is a 750 Performer but it doesnt have the anular venturi the AVS2 has.

Performer Carburetor #1411 750 CFM With Electric Choke, Satin Finish (Non-EGR)

"BLENDED FUELS" Typically, two types of blended fuels are available: Gasohol and gasahol. Gasohol is a blend of not more than 10% ethanol and gasoline. As long as there is no more than 10% ethanol mixed with the gasoline your carburetor will function properly. As the percentage of ethanol climbs above 10%, a richer A/F ratio will be required. Also, because gasohol is more volatile than gasoline, hard hot starting and poor hot weather driveability may result. Gasahol can be a blend of either ethanol, methanol or other alcohol with gasoline. Methanol blended fuel should not be used in your Edelbrock Performer Series carburetor as it will cause corrosion of the fuel system components. It can also cause rapid failure of seals, gaskets, diaphragms and pump plungers. Always check to see if you are using a blended fuel. Although the pump may not indicate the fuel is blended, it is always advisable to verify the type of fuel the station carries. Under no circumstance should E85 fuel be used with Edelbrock carburetors."

I appreciate you clearing that up for me, noting the difference between the two as you did. I probably should have known that to begin with. Of course, that also means I have no further excuse for not getting either a Performer or an AVS2 now and ditching the Holley. Ha! I'd agree that it seems as though the 800 CFM would be oversized (at least for my 440 anyway). I'd go with the 750 CFM Performer, but it lacks the annular flow venturi on the AVS2. It isn't as though I'll be drag racing my car. I just want good, normal driving response under routine, normal driving conditions. I imagine either carb would be just fine, possibly with an edge to the AVS2.

 

[ALRUI]

I appreciate you clearing that up for me, noting the difference between the two as you did. I probably should have known that to begin with. Of course, that also means I have no further excuse for not getting either a Performer or an AVS2 now and ditching the Holley. Ha! I'd agree that it seems as though the 800 CFM would be oversized (at least for my 440 anyway). I'd go with the 750 CFM Performer, but it lacks the annular flow venturi on the AVS2. It isn't as though I'll be drag racing my car. I just want good, normal driving response under routine, normal driving conditions. I imagine either carb would be just fine, possibly with an edge to the AVS2.

The Edelbrock will delivery good smooth performance either with the Performer or AVS2. That said talk to them, they guy I spoke with was very knowledgeable & helpful. Now if I could just find my notes from the conversation

 

[68PK21 440.6bbl]

I really don't get all the Holley Hate, but just maybe over the decades of the life of some of these Holley's 'jist maybe this guy worked on them.

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[ALRUI]

I really don't get all the Holley Hate, but just maybe over the decades of the life of some of these Holley's 'jist maybe this guy worked on them.

View attachment 401784


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No hate here, I have a couple on the parts shelf. If I'm going strictly performance mode I'd slap one of those on but for daily driver I choose the Edelbrock (or a properly rebuilt Carter if you can find one).

 

[JM_ART]

I really don't get all the Holley Hate, but just maybe over the decades of the life of some of these Holley's 'jist maybe this guy worked on them.

View attachment 401784


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Haha! Great photo! No “Holley hate” here. They’re great for the folks who like them. I’m not a “tuner”. Hell, I probably shouldn’t even be allowed to own tools (ha!). And just because I “could” do <insert random tuning suggestion/tip here>, doesn’t mean I really want to continuously do that. I’m getting myself slowed down by decision paralysis anyway re: what parts to buy for the upgrades I’ve planned. I just want something that works, needs minimal fiddling with, and continues working without tinkering.

 

[3175375]

I really don't get all the Holley Hate, but just maybe over the decades of the life of some of these Holley's 'jist maybe this guy worked on them.

View attachment 401784


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My dislike for Holley carburetors is based on my direct experience with them. They required regular attention, whereas my experience with Carters has been set and forget, no - enjoy...

 

[live4theking]

I should do that. I’ve just been reading a few posts here and there, and read about the carb in Edelbrock’s website. A lot of people seem to like it. My engine was rebuilt, but definitely has no high performance pretensions. Drivability and having something that doesn’t have to constantly be tuned and fixed are big considerations.

Also, are these okay with pump gas? Edelbrock say they aren’t, at least that’s what I thought I read in the product description.

The factory Holleys on our NYer's are 625CFM per the FSM. The 650 I would have to think would be fine. I actually prefer the stock Holley that cam on my car, but you cannot apply very light throttle. It dies every time. It sure can make parking in a tight place a challenge. Or creeping up in city traffic, fortunately I don't have to do much of this.

 

[furious70]

I don't understand how anyone doesn't love a double pumper.

Carterbrocks are hard hot starters on e10 and come calibrated very lean.

I suppose a 600-650cfm is ok on a 440 for a Sunday drive car, but why don't yall just own a 318 car at that point?