Cousin Polara Dave

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commando1 said:
Bottom line, Joey: Your decision to make TMM the "Enforcer" was a total screw up by you.
Bottom line, TMM: You suck at moderating.
Bottom line, FCBO: You are in a race to the bottom by attracting the LCD who come and go. The guys that built FCBO have been given the finger.
I am totally disgusted.
Thanks for nothing. You literally have killed the the future of C-bodies by taking away the brain trust who built this place AND FINALLY GIVING C-BODIES THE RESPECT THEY WERE DUE by turning it over to IDIOTS.

Am I really pissed? Yah...
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more. FWIW, I already posted the suggestion to terminate TMM as a mod in another thread, and also suggested how a lot of the $40.00 Gold member fees will most likely go to $0.00 if the BS policing continues. But of course my post, an all posts after it were it were deleted. The truth hurts, even when the decision is obvious, but you know its the truth. To be honest, I was on the fence this year to renew my annual contribution because some of my posts had been deleted before the renewal. Since then, I've had other posts deleted, as well as entire threads I started. Thanks for making my decision an easy one for the next annual Gold membership.

I met Dave and his family in 2020 at Carlisle for the first time. He and his family are genuine good people, and had an open door policy at his pop-up tent to this stranger whom they never met back in 2020.
All I can say is that I can only speak highly of Dave for the short time we were able to talk about C Bodies, and his welcoming personality. Being banned for any reason shouldn't be decided by comments, or a heated discussion. They happen all the time on most forums, and should be expected. Name calling, F-bombs, whatever, shouldn't be cause for the banning of such a long time member. So, to the mods...how many years have you been watching this behavior? Dave's been here longer than almost anyone. He hasn't changed as long as I've been reading his posts. Dave didn't change. FCBO Changed, especially when TMM was put in charge. So yeah, I'm calling the kettle black.
Meeting new people, whether in person or online on this forum creates friendships that can last, and have lasted for many years as noted many FCBO members at different times in past posts. Moderating this site as a police state that intentionally interrupts those relationships will be the downfall of FCBO.
 
Joeychgo said:
It was me.
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I was guessing it was you. You seem to like to leave TMM out there taking the brunt alone while you slide around in the background.

I don't know what this particular event was, but you have been on a roll for the past year or so now degrading this board.
 
Dave is very high on the list of people that I would like to meet, might even try and plan one of my road trips that way now that he is closer.

Do to management of FCBO/FABO my involvement has been greatly reduced, I'll leave it at that.

I like a forum that is a community and not just a tech manual. When I joined this forum I felt that, not so much anymore.


Alan
 
Polara Dave and his wife are some of the most Gracious and hospitable people I ever met in my short life. You may not agree with everything he says but he is completely unrepentant in his approach and I respect the hell out of that. I will never forget the time he drove me back to the main gate in his Polara at Carlisle. What a Incredible 5 minutes. The only other 5 minutes that could maybe compare would be when I made my son.

As for this site? Yes it has really gone down hill. It has done a lot to push out the members who made this site what it is with over zealous moderation. And I think it has just gotten to big, personally. More people = more problems. Just my take on things.
 
So the “No Politics” law was enacted on Nov 9th, 2020. Coincidence?
Covid, Orangeman, impeachment etc were fine for the five years prior.
 
I am no fan of political threads. My solution? Ignore and don't participate, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't a place to discuss opinions. I have no idea what is involved with moderating a board, and I can only imagine that the passion of Politics is tough to get a handle on, but deletion of content will always seem heavy handed.

Dave will be the first to admit he can be a pain in the azz, but he is our pain in the azz, so let him speak.
 
When I talk with folks overseas, almost invariably (because they too frequent this site), they ask me who is this guy Polara 71 named Dave? To them, he comes across as a prideful, know it all, arrogant alpha male who is hateful and opinionated and likes to stir up problems. I haven't met Dave personally, but I also hear invariably from folks who do know him in person that he is very different in person than his on-line personna would suggest - he is gracious, kind and helpful and knows his stuff.

So for me, this whole incident isn't about trying to hurt Dave or shut him up as much as it is about treating each other with respect and not turning everything into an us vs. them issue with a lot of unnecessary drama associated with it. Our country is currently torn apart with all this unnecessary drama and most folks I know are fed up with it. We all need to treat each other with respect is the bottom line - not just when you are in their presence but also when you are not. Leave politics out of a car site is my view, as politically in this country we are doing ourselves no good by all the divisiveness that is rampant while our enemies get stronger. We are just hurting ourselves. So why let that same theme tear apart this site? - I personally believe that is what Joey is concerned about, rightly so. He built this site through the use of the most advanced technology available and has made investments that work well. He has every right to just want everyone to just get along - not only in person, but all the time!
I see no downside to actually achieving that for anyone. Some folks, not just Dave and including myself, just need to make some adjustments and not make most everything a fight or to bring unhelpful drama to the scene constantly.

I see no reason why Dave can't make some adjustments in his own character for his own good when getting on line. Why not represent the real him rather than someone who seems to be just the opposite to those who don't know him well? How would that hurt him or anyone else then?

We are, as I see it, guests on a site that is technically extremely well run with few interruptions or problems and electronically works seamlessly almost all of the time. Joey built this site through hard work and investment and it is his site. I see nothing wrong with his wanting folks trying to treat everyone well, even if they don't like them, in order to keep the peace and well-being on this site - in other words just "get along". If you graciously asked folks into your home and then they descended into name calling and leaving a mess behind it its wake, why would you want to put up with that and have them keep coming back?

I expressed my opinion in the original thread and I still do value Dave very much and I also know a little about his real behavior in person from many other folks. All Joey is requiring for good reason is for Dave to be the same in his house as he is in person. I see nothing wrong with that at all. To make this something else is just not helpful in trying to solve this problem.

We need to analyze this problem accurately and then find a way to solve the problem not just try to take down the whole site just to get even with someone who has been trying hard to make it successful and has succeeded. I think we all want the site to succeed since it is the ony one left in my opinion that is very well worth saving.

The bottom line in my view is the same as Joey's - everyone just get along and do not cause problems. Choose your words wisely and leave the politics and hate at the voting booth. We get enough of that stuff in other realms and don't need it causing a mess here too. We just end up all being losers that way.
 
Well said Steve, and it is true that the online Dave comes off much differently then the in person Dave, but having met him, his attitude and conversation techniques are virtually the same. I think the main point here is not that Dave has changed, but the way the site is moderated has changed. I've been here since 2012, but only in the past year, have my posts been deleted, which I was surprised at, but I understand that there were rules on commentary in "for sale" ads, so I let it go. I disagree with the rule, I think some great information as well as scammers have been brought to light (who can forget the epic $20K "Last Formal" thread?). I think the members here have always been over the top gracious towards other member's cars, and the commentary only enhanced promotion of the sale. As long as we are civil, and the OP doesn't mind how does commentary hurt? Come on Joey, you have to admit, the rules have tightened over the past year.
 
Samplingman said:
As long as we are civil, and the OP doesn't mind how does commentary hurt?
Click to expand...

So, now staff is suppose to sit in judgement over what is civil and not in the for sale threads? How about when someone calls someone a scammer but has little actual evidence. What should I do then? Now we have to judge that also? How is it fair to allow a comment such as "Nice car! Great Deal!" and not allow a comment such as "That is a piece of crap and you want way too much for it." ?? So then when we delete those posts that, in staff's judgement aren't civil, we can have arguments about that and more calls of censorship.

Also, What about the guy trying to sell a part and the thread turns into 4 pages and a completely different topic? And then the seller decides not to bother selling anything else here because of the BS in his for sale threads. (before you comment, it has happened)

Also, how about the ad that you guys don't find interesting enough to comment on as it gets pushed further and further down the list as you keep commenting on older ads, keeping them to the top?



Let me remind you of this thread, specifically the last post which I made. Second sentence.
Proposal for Political Thread

and one more post in that thread that I would like to draw special attention to:
Proposal for Political Thread

I'll let you in on a little secret. I have been discussing putting in a politics forum with a few members for some time, unfortunately every time the topic comes up, like in the above thread, a number of members just cannot help themselves from resorting to all the things I fear will happen with such a forum. Every time I get close to creating the forum, something happens to make me reconsider.


Samplingman said:
Come on Joey, you have to admit, the rules have tightened over the past year.
Click to expand...

More like 2 years. The site has also grown a lot on the last few years. That makes things much harder to control and the need to be a little stricter. Further, I haven't seen a few of the more prominent members doing much more than rebelling and breaking the rules, almost seemingly on purpose, and then complaining and blaming staff when their rule breaking posts get deleted.


--------------------------------------------------------

Now - just to keep everyone on the same playing field a little... This is something I posted in the gold member forum on a similar topic as this yesterday...

There seem to be 2 main things where posts get deleted and some of you get pissed. One is political commentary and the other commentary in for sale threads. So let me once again explain why those rules are there.

The political is simple. It just breeds arguments, hostility and divisiveness. I watched it start here and that's why I pulled politics out. Frankly, as a group, you guys haven't given me much reason to believe otherwise.

The commentary in for sale ads is simple. It keeps the for sale threads clean and on topic. I want people to be able to easily buy and sell parts so that you guys can get the parts you need. Someone who is selling a part doesn't deserve to be publicly told he is asking too much or his part is crap. He shouldn't have to watch his for sale ad be turned into something completely off topic either. It also pushes the ad to the top of the list, pushing other ads further down making it unfair for those with other ads by making them harder to find.

This isn't about censorship. It's about trying to keep the forum organized and friendly and nothing more. I don't know how some of you could have a problem with that. The more some of you and others flaunt the rules, or support those who do, the harder it becomes to keep the site organized and friendly and the more posts we have to delete to try to keep it that way. Then the censorship moniker get tossed around and staff are the bad guys.

Oh, and by the way, Mike just tries to enforce the rules I have made. Don't blame him, he is only doing the job I asked him to do.
Click to expand...
 
Samplingman said:
Well said Steve, and it is true that the online Dave comes off much differently then the in person Dave, but having met him, his attitude and conversation techniques are virtually the same. I think the main point here is not that Dave has changed, but the way the site is moderated has changed. I've been here since 2012, but only in the past year, have my posts been deleted, which I was surprised at, but I understand that there were rules on commentary in "for sale" ads, so I let it go. I disagree with the rule, I think some great information as well as scammers have been brought to light (who can forget the epic $20K "Last Formal" thread?). I think the members here have always been over the top gracious towards other member's cars, and the commentary only enhanced promotion of the sale. As long as we are civil, and the OP doesn't mind how does commentary hurt? Come on Joey, you have to admit, the rules have tightened over the past year.
Click to expand...

I believe we need to look more at the big picture. The world is changing and it is becoming more harsh and unforgiving and society just can't or won't work in unison to achieve a common goal anymore. It was not like this in prior years either.

Folks are becoming more brash and harsh towards each other, there are conspiracy theories everywhere and folks seem to be believing stuff that has no real basis in fact just because they want to and can find many on the internet to agree with them.

Businesses are struggling as a result to come back in full force, many are failing and inventories are at record low levels. It was never like this when I grew up over the last 74 years.

So yes, because of the unhappiness with the way the world is trending, site moderators have a lot more crap to deal with because folks just won't be civil with each other or think about the consequences of their actions or words. That is the only point that is trying to be made here. Politics are at the base of all this recent trending in my opinion. We are all going downhill because we can't seem to think clearly anymore and make sure we know the facts so there is more divisiveness everywhere than I have ever seen. The end result will not be good and can easily lead to more civil unrest. Our enemies love it and I have no doubt are doing their best utilizing the internet to make things even worse. We all need to do better and be very careful about what we believe anymore or how we respond to each other.

It isn't just here either - do you think that the recent restrictions by Facebook, Twitter and so on are out there for no good reason either? Maybe you do, but a lot of internet sites are really struggling with how to deal with all these changes.

Our progeny deserve better than this.
 
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I'd still like to know why the Henchmen here gave me a 2 week vacation [WITHOUT EXPLAINATION], and the only thing I can think of is some pussy got their panties in a wad about my comment about me having no love for pigeons!
I got 5 days on FBBO and 2 weeks here for really calling out Joey, so it's evidently clear that Joey has no set standards of conduct and how and where to discipline members. Big fuckin favoritism on members from Joey and his Henchmen Mods that don't even know what the definition of the word even is, and then want to argue with you about it! Pretty ****** up if you ask me, No I'm tellin you it's ****** up!
Rest easy Polara/Dave, You'll be back!
 
saforwardlook said:
Politics are at the base of all this recent trending in my opinion. We are all going downhill because we can't seem to think clearly anymore and make sure we know the facts so there is more divisiveness everywhere than I have ever seen. The end result will not be good and can easily lead to more civil unrest. Our enemies love it and I have no doubt are doing their best utilizing the internet to make things even worse.
Click to expand...

I have no problem in agreeing with part of your sentiments, as politics are the cause, however the enemy that is causing the unrest we see happening everywhere is a product of our own creation. We unleased it as a country and gave it life. Now the **** has hit the fan and the division is more than ever, resulting in an all-time high level of hate and animosity. Because we see it every day, it has become too hard to ignore, no matter what side of the fence you’re on. Unfortunately, I don’t think we hit bottom yet.
It’s kind of like Dr. Frankenstein, who thought he was doing better by the people with advancements in technology and/or nature, but his monster only proved being capable of one thing, and one thing only, and that was to cause raging havoc in the cities, by hurting those who want to support a cause, but silence those who want to have a voice.

The analogy mentioned above may not be 100% on point, but one opinion rule is not a good thing, and can be easily viewed as being biased. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
 
Well, it took a little longer than usual TO GET OFF TRACK...but here we are, again.

Can we get back to Dave?

Nice guy. Incredibly hospitable at Carlisle and knowledgeable. An asset to the hobby. A great guy to know and have as a friend. I hope he's allowed back
His integrity and honesty is, at times, his own worst enemy.
 
I think you guys are missing the mark completely.

Dave appreciates honesty, blunt as it may be... If you've ever talked to Dave, you know this.

Dave didn't get banned because of his politics, He got banned because he literally said "F... you" to the staff. I've seen it before it was edited/deleted and frankly, you can't be that disrespectful and start name calling and then expect everyone to be OK with it. The world doesn't work that way and neither should this forum.

I really hope it can be worked out and he can and will come back. He's got a lot of knowledge and experience. He's one of the people that I really respect for a lot of reasons. I would miss him here.
 
Dave tried to make people think, and to spell out their reasoning behind what they were thinking, with his line of questioning. I'm sure that rubbed some people the wrong way.

I'm glad I got to meet him and his wife last year, I knew he may not be back at Carlisle for some time, and wanted to experience some time with him, and I'm happy I did.
 
Joey, you need to rethink Dave's ban by what I have read so far.
You made an executive decision and this decision was wrong.
All you had to do was delete his posts with a note.
 
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