Daughter's 88 Aries won't stay running....

[thrashingcows]

Many thanks again for all the suggestions and experiences.

I was digging around the web last night for a few hours reading and trying to understand how everything works in the TBI system. Eventually I ended up over on Allpar and was reading about the MAP sensor and the issues it can have and the problems it can cause. Mentioned to disconnect the MAP and try starting the motor....went out and tried that and BOOM car fired right up and idled!

So thank you Lea for finding that info for me, very much appreciated and if I had not found it myself last night I would have tried all the suggestions today. Not to say that it won't have another issue down the road and your guys suggested repairs might be the ticket. ;)

 

[mr. fix it]

Happy that you found the issue.

 

[Ross Wooldridge]

I like happy endings!

 

[live4theking]

Yippie, I'm glad you figured it out.

 

[mrfury68]

Good job!

 

[livininharrow]

sweet. on the road again.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

And thank you for being a good mechanic and doing suggestions and not just repeating "I changed this and that and it still doesn't run". Again and again.

 

[thrashingcows]

And thank you for being a good mechanic and doing suggestions and not just repeating "I changed this and that and it still doesn't run". Again and again.

My wife suggested towing it to a "shop" and having a "real mechanic" look at it....Bless her she was trying to help me stop tearing my hair out but I had to laughed at her. I told her you think any modern shop will be able to trouble shoot this 30+ year old car, they are used to plugging it in to their diagnostic units and having the computer tell them a list of what's wrong, they would just start throwing parts at it until they eventually get it running and I would then have to pay them by the hour to do so.

 

[thrashingcows]

I know that you looked over the vacuum hoses already, but many of these had a trouble prone vacuum harness... they'd rot and split and cause all sorts of headaches. They used to sell replacement, premade vacuum harnesses cheaper than you could assemble something with all the hose connections and size changes.

Well your comment was a harbinger of vacuum line death. I was cleaning up some grounds and loose wires on the motor last night and noticed a cracked end on a vacuum line, removed it and cut the offending end off and was trying to re-install when it slipped and I tugged on the vacuum line harness on top of the motor...4 lines and 2 connectors broke....so now I am having to replace a bunch of vacuum lines.

 

[LeBaron1973]

Ah, the joys of old cars, fix one thing and something else goes.

I wish your daughter has happy motoring again soon.

 

[cantflip]

Well your comment was a harbinger of vacuum line death. I was cleaning up some grounds and loose wires on the motor last night and noticed a cracked end on a vacuum line, removed it and cut the offending end off and was trying to re-install when it slipped and I tugged on the vacuum line harness on top of the motor...4 lines and 2 connectors broke....so now I am having to replace a bunch of vacuum lines.

Not my fault... and besides, I was pushed...



Ok, sorry for put the "whammy" on you. Look around to see if the replacement harness is still in existence... much easier and should be cheaper than trying to recreate one.

 

[thrashingcows]

Update....

Well after the last round of hair pulling the car ran great for a few weeks but it now dies when the motor reaches a certain temperature....almost full operating temp from what the idiot dash gauge says, will turn over but will not fire until the motor/electrical cools down. Getting close to tossing the towel in on this car, think I'm going to get her something much older with less electrical/sensor issues.

Lea any chance your books at work say something about this? Car dies while in gear while driving, or sitting in drive or park, it's as if the ignition is just switched off, one second it's running nice and smooth with no hesitation or hick ups, next the motor is off and the rest of the electrics are working fine, fuel pump cycles as well. Once things have cooled down for 10-15 min it fires right up.

 

[thrashingcows]

I asked her if she wanted something newer, like my eldest daughters Neon and she flat out refused anything that new. So I'm considering a 69 Valiant 4dr with a slanty right now.

 

[cbarge]

Update....

Well after the last round of hair pulling the car ran great for a few weeks but it now dies when the motor reaches a certain temperature....almost full operating temp from what the idiot dash gauge says, will turn over but will not fire until the motor/electrical cools down. Getting close to tossing the towel in on this car, think I'm going to get her something much older with less electrical/sensor issues.

Lea any chance your books at work say something about this? Car dies while in gear while driving, or sitting in drive or park, it's as if the ignition is just switched off, one second it's running nice and smooth with no hesitation or hick ups, next the motor is off and the rest of the electrics are working fine, fuel pump cycles as well. Once things have cooled down for 10-15 min it fires right up.

I will take a look today!!

 

[cbarge]

Going through this thread..
Brian did you replace the ignition coil? if not do replace.
Do you still have the old HAL distributor pick up?
As a process of elimination put the old one back in,see what happens
Another common issue is the Auto Shutdown Relay.or the PCM wiring relay.
The PCM operates the Auto Shutdown (ASD) relay and fuel pump relay through one ground path. The PCM operates the relays by switching the ground path on and off. Both relays turn on and off at the same time.

The ASD relay connects the battery voltage to the fuel injector and ignition coil. The fuel pump relay connects the battery voltage to the fuel pump and oxygen sensor heating element.
Part # RY108

Let's hope it is that simple ..
The top 5 causes is the PCM..which just might put your daughter in that Valiant..
I just checked 5 PCM numbers...none in Canada..but Rock Auto shows 2 available depending on the numbers.

 

[cbarge]

 

[cbarge]

The PCM turns the ground path off when the ignition switch is in the OFFposition. Both relays are off. When the ignition switch is in the ONor crank position, the PCM monitors the distributor pick-up signal. From the pick-up signal, the PCM determines engine speed and ignition timing (coil dwell). If the PCM does not receive a distributor signal when the ignition switch is in the RUNposition, it will de-energize both relays. When the relays are de-energized, battery voltage is not supplied to the fuel injector, ignition coil, fuel pump and oxygen sensor heating element.

 

[thrashingcows]

The relays on her car are not the common square 4-5 pin you showed, other then one of them, they are the metal case units. I was considering rewiring them to all run the cheap and easy to find Bosch style relays. I had thought perhaps the ASD relay as well, but I had read that it controlled the fuel pump as well so when the fuel pump was still priming I assumed the relay was OK,

Yes I installed a new coil, and I still have all the old sensors and parts I removed and replaced. I will try putting the old HAL sensor back in. Just seems very odd that it is temperature related, and I replaced both the coolant and TBI unit temp sensor.

I will check out your suggestions....Very much appreciated Lea!!

 

[thrashingcows]

I think Rosie will become a side project for me, tinker and try and work out all the bugs in my spare time, I will get a collector plate for it and run it in the summer and fall around town and to some cruise ins and shows.

 

[mrfury68]

Step back, take a deep breath, you will figure it out. Great advice here as to what might be the culprit. That HAL distributor pick up is what keeps jumping to the front of my mind. As the owner of a late 80's FWD Mopar I wish I had more advice to give. That car is too nice to give up on. Good luck.