Doubts about Investing in AGM battery

[Henrius]

I need a new group 27 battery for the Fury and was all set to plunk down the big bucks for one of those AGM batteries that supposedly last a LONG time and never leak. Then I started reading more about them.

They don't like fast charging and like a lower charging voltage. Newer cars supposedly can sense what type of battery is put in the car, and adjust charging accordingly. But our older cars can't.

Bottom line seems to be that if an AGM is treated carefully, it can last a long time and supply a lot of starting amperage. If it is NOT treated just right it will not last any longer than any other battery.

For occasional use, any type of car battery does better if it is maintained on a trickle charge rather than let run completely down and recharged at a high ampere rate.

I am thinking it may make better sense to buy a traditional battery, even a retro-look, and maintain it by a trickle charge. Lots of people say they've made a conventional battery last 7 years with good care. Heck, it has happened once with me.

 

[CBODY67]

Unless you're going to chase trophies from OEM-oriented car shows/events, no need for a repro battery. The AGM is an OEM-upgrade type of battery. Supposedly better stuff inside and the "glass mat" is supposed to make it last longer.

End result is that IF you desire something like a "stock look", the only way to really get that (caps on each battery cell), then the repro battery might be the best option, BUT Interstate still builds "black body" batteries. AND they build them for OEM Lexus, Hyundai, and Toyota vehicles. Just make sure to get a "27" size and not a "27F" (Ford spec, with reversed cable sides). Check their website.

OR some of the auto supplies have black batteries that last very nicely, too.

It seems that most have gotten away from the "pro-rated" adjustment in case of battery failure, going with a "free replacement period" instead. Longer "free replacement" period = higher price.

I got a new battery for my '05 Impala at O'Reillys a few months ago. It ended up being about $160.00 all together. Nothing's inexpensive if you get decent stuff. The battery that was still in it checked "over-spec" and it was about three years old (an O'Reilly's battery), if that matters.

I'd worry more about the free replacement period, warranty, and availability . . . plus a little about price . . . plus "the look", rather than worry about what type of "guts" made it work. As always, make a copy of the sales receipt from the original "heat print" receipt! At one time, the WalMart operatives were saying to tape that original receipt to the bottom of the battery. Know what happens when heat print paper gets warm? . . . the printing disappears. But there are date codes burned into the case, plus the round stickers, too.

Used to be that if the car was a Chrysler, I'd put a Chrysler battery in it. Same with GM and Delco. In daily use, the Chrysler batteries did good, but in the intermittent use, they always needed to be charged or warrantied. I had some poor luck with ACDelco, so I went elsewhere.

Be sure the battery hold-down and battery tray are in very good condition. Plus the cables!

CBODY67

 

[SPF Required]

I went through this same consternation when I started my engine rebuild. Being that I was not going for a stock reproduction look and wanted reliability, I went with an optima yellow top. Then I added this for $27 to give it a throw back look Tar Topper.

Some additional thoughts can be read on this thread: Battery Help...

Hope this helps!

 

[cantflip]

I need a new group 27 battery for the Fury and was all set to plunk down the big bucks for one of those AGM batteries that supposedly last a LONG time and never leak. Then I started reading more about them.

They don't like fast charging and like a lower charging voltage. Newer cars supposedly can sense what type of battery is put in the car, and adjust charging accordingly. But our older cars can't.

Bottom line seems to be that if an AGM is treated carefully, it can last a long time and supply a lot of starting amperage. If it is NOT treated just right it will not last any longer than any other battery.

For occasional use, any type of car battery does better if it is maintained on a trickle charge rather than let run completely down and recharged at a high ampere rate.

I am thinking it may make better sense to buy a traditional battery, even a retro-look, and maintain it by a trickle charge. Lots of people say they've made a conventional battery last 7 years with good care. Heck, it has happened once with me.

FWIW... I dislike AGM batteries for exactly the reasons you've mentioned.

When MB started using them, the intermittent use cars needed replacements at a noticeably higher rate. They are sensitive, as you mentioned, to jump starting and charging. In my current job we kill batteries very effectively... lots of charging and discharging cycles... even the optima can't survive as well as a traditional lead/acid battery.

That said, there are a few things to think about if you choose a lead/acid one. A good guideline is a heavier battery is a better battery, but not a 100% rule.

There are so many things that can damage a battery, plus they really aren't manufactured to the highest standards (I don't believe what anyone says). The easiest numbers to look at are the CCA's, higher is better. I've noticed some brands have eliminated that from their labeling . The other numbers commonly published are CA and RC... again, higher is better.

At one time I found group 27 with good numbers and good prices... I don't even look anymore. I personally use 34/78 because they work in all my vehicles and I have too many to be buying more than one battery a year (which sets up replacements at about the same time).

Other than shopping CCA's and price... consider the eventual failures and pick a retailer you are comfortable working with. There is a fair chance you will be replacing any battery within it's warranty/prorating period... I hate to give a core that could have paid off better, just because I'm not going to wait to go back where it's covered.

Speaking of the coverage, the battery warranties have been changed, poked, reduced and in general F'ed with to the point I usually just look at the free replacement period when I purchase these days.

The work batteries are usually good for 2-3 years before they're sulfated to death by the countless folks who don't understand how to charge them (fast charging kills)... I probably buy 25+ myself every year and personally don't see much brand difference in durability (and sometimes the second line batteries hold up as well). The biggest challenge I face is group 65 for F diesels... small availability from many suppliers and heavy working loads. At the moment Exide NASCAR Extreme batteries (probably available at home depot) are not giving me as much grief as I was getting from other brands... or maybe my constant nagging has gotten the folks to charge them smarter. I don't buy them for my stuff... I haven't settled on a preferred brand, just whichever retailer hasn't pissed me off lately (which usually relates to whichever one I haven't been using).

 

[Zymurgy]

I had to he same debate with mine, I went the cheaper, but better 5 year gold battery, from Auto zone to my surprise in has exceeded my expectations. I had voltage regulator problems last fall and thought for sure it would kill it. It did not.

Over 5 years in he car now. I sprayed it black so it doesn't stand out in the car. I always said when this one dies I would get the nice AGM battery, I probably won't now. I don't do car shows, I drive her so that isn't a factor either.

 

[78Brougham]

Another thought Is the charger you'll need for those agm batteries. You better plan on getting a new charger along with the battery. One that has an option for charging these types of batteries.
I know a guy who sells them

 

[Henrius]

At one time I found group 27 with good numbers and good prices... I don't even look anymore. I personally use 34/78 because they work in all my vehicles and I have too many to be buying more than one battery a year (which sets up replacements at about the same time).

Just curious. Does the 34/78 size you mentioned fit believably in the battery tray, so you can use the car's OEM battery attachment hardware?

 

[Carmine]

Do you have anyone who rebuilds batteries in your area? I give these guys $40 (now $48) and get a one-year replacement. All of them have lived well past their warranty.

https://www.earlsbattery.com/auto-batteries/

I have two old interstate batteries that are at least 10 years old and won't die. They're in cars I don't use that often. In my truck it never fails to crank the 400 fast enough to fill the carb fuel bowls and start. Of course, no parasidic losses with a factory AM radio infotainment system, lol.

 

[Henrius]

Funny thing. I went to ConsumerReports.org to look at car battery ratings. (Must be a paid member to access.) Brand ratings are all over the place depending on battery size. Interstate top rated in one size, Diehard top rated in another size, Duralast highly rated in yet another size. No, they did not rate any group 27s! One interesting fact is Wal-Mart's AGM batteries (if I wanted one) were nearly as cheap as many other brands' non-AGM batteries.

Conclusion was Consumer Reports not too helpful on this subject. Found it interesting that NOTHING was said in the article about different charging for AGM batteries. But one revelation is that all BRANDS of US replacement batteries are manufactured by only THREE companies: Johnson Controls, Exide, and East Penn!

 

[CBODY67]

Here's a consideration! Buy the battery from a reliable local retailer/vendor that you have really good access to. THEN buy the battery that's closest to the type the car originally came with.

I'm not sure about the types of charging which the newer batteries prefer, but I know that the OEMs are using different on-vehicle charging strategies. In the 1990s, GM started using the ECM to control battery charging by basically turning the alternator "on" and "off" to get the output they needed on the vehicle, with a 140+amp alternator as the base equipment. Chrysler was using their engine module to do something similar (but not sure how they did it). On Fords, and many others, you'd better have the battery fully charged when it was replaced OR the "voltage regulator" would spike the output to "max" until it got the charge level of the battery to where it considered it "acceptable". That output spike usually killed the alternator quickly! Again, these were 140+amp alternators.

On current GM vehicles (at least the pickiup trucks), the alternator gauge can show voltage levels that can range from 14.__ down to 12.__volts, as needed, controlled by the ECM in some manner. AND I believe they have "the better" AGM batteries as OEM?

Dr. Daniel Stern has a trick that worked for him on his '90s Dodge pickup, where he adapted a late '60s Dodge Dart. How he did that is on his lighting products website, last time I looked. Basically, he detached the voltage regulator function away from the BCM, so that when the battery regulation issue had an issue, he paid about $10.00 rather than hundreds.

In many ways, the battery acts as an "accumulator" to smooth out the various voltage spikes in the system. Obviously, modern vehicles need a much smoother and "cleaner" voltage for all of the computerization and related "communications between computers" to work as they should. Signal multiplexing (first used by Cadillac, at least in GM, back in the later 1980s, as a way to use fewer wiring harnesses, decrease harness complexity, and increase reliability of such. I'm sure that others can be similar, by this point in time.

"Weight" of the battery can usually mean "more lead" in the battery, but quality construction (unseen!) can still be an issue. This was proven to us when ACDelco had their "competitive with auto supply brands" battery in the middle 2000s. About 10 lbs heavier than the OEM-spec Delcos! But in our employee shuttle bus (a 15 pass BlueBird-GM van-based bus), they did good to last a year (once it started, it didn't get turned off until the shift was over, about 80 miles/day at .8miles a lap; same dynamics as a 80 mile commute each day). Only thing that might have killed them was the constant vibration from some road conditions?

I know it will take some "resistance" to get the same type of battery that came in the vehicle, or close to it, considering all of the "battery" alternatives now around, but that might be the most cost-effective and more reliable way to go, considering many of the things I've mentioned above.

AND a side issue can be that there are few battery builders any more. The same brand in one area of the country might use one manufacturer whereas the same brand in another region (same brand) can use another supplier to build their batteries. Of course, they all have to pass the same final tests for approval, BUT there can be unseen differences inside of them, by observation. In other words, one brand might work well in CA, but the same brand might not do so well in NY, for example. Several brands might come from the same factory, EACH built to the specs the particular brand request, which is what sets the two brands apart or makes them more similar than some might know, at the SAME general price point.

CBODY67

 

[CBODY67]

One reason to consider Interstate is their large retail dealer network. In the '80s, it seemed that all local garages and service stations carried Interstate batteries. ALL packaged in clear plastic bags! Some installers just cut the plastic at the terminal lugs and put them in "wrapped", which seemed to keep the underhood area cleaner. This all meant that you had the confidence and ease of finding somebody that sold them in a different place than where you lived, should the need arise.

They also supply the OEM batteries to Hyundai, Toyota, Lexus, and other import brand dealers IN BLACK CASE batteries. AND you can order on their website and they get them to you (probably via a local "battery truck" salesperson?). As mentioned they have BLACK case batteries rather than just the green ones we normally see. I hold no "position" with them, just mention these things as an awareness issue. AND, of course, they have a full line of batteries from keyless remotes on up.

CBODY67

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Go to your local NAPA store tell them you want the cheapest battery they sell for a 98 Dodge truck, because you are just selling it and don't care about warranty. If it is more than $100 complain that you want the absolute cheapest line they can possibly get (they have it they are just not showing it to you yet) , I think it is like a 30 month or so, guessing? I've got one in my wife's old Trailblazer and it's like 4-5 years old does not get driven much still kicking.
Secret is .......It's the same battery, different stickers. All batteries are made by I believe 3 major brands. Exide, interstate, and east Penn manufacturing. Sure their are others but no better, only smaller.
Fact is cheap battery has as good of chance of lasting as a expensive one. Lead acid in a sparingly driven car is the way to go they cycle better.

 

[300rag]

While surely not correct, I opted to go with a group 27 marine deep cycle/starting battery from Costco. $125 CDN. It should hold up better for the discharge that can occur on longer storage.

 

[polara71]

Antique Auto Battery - Chrysler


Ive gotten 8 years from one of these. I currently have 7 years into another and 2 years into two more. They go onto my battery tender over the winter . They look great and last, I have never had a problem.

 

[CanCritter]

spent the last 3 days readin up on batterys to fix a heater issue in my skidoo trailer...starter batterys..lotsa small plates for cranking power....rv batteries...6vlt large plates for prolonged power no starting....hybrids...combination of the two..generaly marine batteries...had marine in my diesel..started every time -50 not plugged in..replaced with different interstate type starter battery...works fine but not as powerfull as the older marine interstates...will go back to marine for everything...princess auto has a good deal on 6 vlt battries for those of you folks with rvs...most brands can be tracked back to a small handful of companys

 

[1978 NYB]

There is only 3 battery manufacturing plants in the U.S. I toured the plant near Allentown, Pa. I couldn't believe how happy every employee in the plant was working there.

 

[78Brougham]

Unfortunately there aren't any lead smelting plants here anymore. (Thanks to you know who's EPA's regulations) With any luck maybe that will change.

 

[cantflip]

Just curious. Does the 34/78 size you mentioned fit believably in the battery tray, so you can use the car's OEM battery attachment hardware?

They are slightly smaller, but give me the darn side terminals for my GM crap. Operating as a "one size fits all" fleet at home simplifies a few things for me. Here is a link with battery group size's and dimensions Battery-Web.com - BCI Group Numbers, Dimensional Specifications, Polarity and Terminals

With the plastic height adapter under the battery, it fit's pretty good (about and inch short on each side) using the factory hardware.

 

[1978 NYB]

There are many AGM group sizes available. You might have to wait a day to get what you need. I see a lot of these batteries in race cars (the race cars that use a battery). You can mount them anywhere (Even upside down) and they don't leak. They are a lot more resistant to vibration, heat and cold and that is why you see them in race cars.

 

[cantflip]

There are many AGM group sizes available. You might have to wait a day to get what you need. I see a lot of these batteries in race cars (the race cars that use a battery). You can mount them anywhere (Even upside down) and they don't leak. They are a lot more resistant to vibration, heat and cold and that is why you see them in race cars.

Weight... they weigh less. I suppose there is or will be a lithium battery available for this... IDK if it would be popular with safety workers though.

I bought several of the little lithium jump boxes similar to this (maybe a different brand)...
https://www.amazon.com/Beatit-18000...21447202&sr=8-13&keywords=jump+packs+for+cars
They have been impressing the entire crew, and confusing several that a 5v USB port can charge them.