wyldebill
New Member
I've found a 67 300 parts car for my 67 wagon. What are the pros and cons of using these disks, vs the later 71-72-73 disk brakes? Parts availablity? Thanks
Early disk brakes
- Thread starter wyldebill
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EurekaSevven
Active Member
Mainly the parts availability. The 67-68 kits are more or less unobtainable, and for the calipers specifically, I seem to remember they actually have a spring inside each piston bore, compared to the Kelsey-Hayes single-piston caliper that was used on the 69 and up disc systems, which only had a dust boot and a single o-ring.
Although, in the same manual as the 1970 Chrysler, which I used as a reference for my 72 disc brake setup, the Valiants and Darts (?) used a 4 piston setup, similar to the 67-68 C-Body one. I don't know if they're actually the same though, I think they're for A-Bodies only, but I thought it was interesting. I also don't know how easy parts for those are able to be obtained. Plus, 67-68 used a special rotor assembly, compared to the 69-up system.
Although, in the same manual as the 1970 Chrysler, which I used as a reference for my 72 disc brake setup, the Valiants and Darts (?) used a 4 piston setup, similar to the 67-68 C-Body one. I don't know if they're actually the same though, I think they're for A-Bodies only, but I thought it was interesting. I also don't know how easy parts for those are able to be obtained. Plus, 67-68 used a special rotor assembly, compared to the 69-up system.
Dan Scully
Well-Known Member
One option, not sure if that make it for your application. Might chk with them.
Scarebird Classic Brakes LLC
Scarebird Classic Brakes LLC
The Budd 65-68 disc brakes are very good, however, certain parts are a challenge to find and/or service:
Lower Ball Joints (disc brakes only) hard to find NOS, and are hideously expensive. Apparently originals can be rebuilt, but reports say they don't last.
Calipers - hard to keep in good condition and require frequent rebuilding because the bores are made of steel and they rust. New stainless steel sleeves can be inserted and then the calipers have a much longer lifespan.
Rotors - very expensive and hard to find but not impossible. New rotors are periodically reproduced but be careful because they often have the Imperial sized bolt pattern of 5 on 5". The bolt pattern for our vehicles is 5 on 4.5".
Brake booster (disc brakes only) - very difficult to find and rebuilding services are becoming fewer. Only a couple of people who are trusted remained to rebuild them (like Booster Dewey). Currently however, they are the only safe option out there for using a factory disc brake system on our C bodies, so they are a must-have. If your donor car has the correct Bendix dual diaphragm brake booster, you're in luck.
The rest of us C body disc brake enthusiasts eagerly await reproduction C body disc brake Bendix booster to come on the market. Do NOT make the mistake of using a drum brake booster on a disc brake system. Even though it will bolt up and work, the drum brake booster does not provide enough energy to fully power the discs, which is something you don't want to find out at the worst possible time.
The conclusion that many of us come to is: use the much more readily available and easily serviced 1970 through 73 C body disc brake parts which are direct bolt on to 65-68 C bodies, without the need for unique lower ball joints, and the only thing that you really need to find is the correct disc brake booster. If the donor car that you're looking at has that disc brake booster, grab it.
While some will extol the virtues of the aftermarket Wildwood and SSBC disc brake systems, I am not a fan and prefer factory engineering.
Lower Ball Joints (disc brakes only) hard to find NOS, and are hideously expensive. Apparently originals can be rebuilt, but reports say they don't last.
Calipers - hard to keep in good condition and require frequent rebuilding because the bores are made of steel and they rust. New stainless steel sleeves can be inserted and then the calipers have a much longer lifespan.
Rotors - very expensive and hard to find but not impossible. New rotors are periodically reproduced but be careful because they often have the Imperial sized bolt pattern of 5 on 5". The bolt pattern for our vehicles is 5 on 4.5".
Brake booster (disc brakes only) - very difficult to find and rebuilding services are becoming fewer. Only a couple of people who are trusted remained to rebuild them (like Booster Dewey). Currently however, they are the only safe option out there for using a factory disc brake system on our C bodies, so they are a must-have. If your donor car has the correct Bendix dual diaphragm brake booster, you're in luck.
The rest of us C body disc brake enthusiasts eagerly await reproduction C body disc brake Bendix booster to come on the market. Do NOT make the mistake of using a drum brake booster on a disc brake system. Even though it will bolt up and work, the drum brake booster does not provide enough energy to fully power the discs, which is something you don't want to find out at the worst possible time.
The conclusion that many of us come to is: use the much more readily available and easily serviced 1970 through 73 C body disc brake parts which are direct bolt on to 65-68 C bodies, without the need for unique lower ball joints, and the only thing that you really need to find is the correct disc brake booster. If the donor car that you're looking at has that disc brake booster, grab it.
While some will extol the virtues of the aftermarket Wildwood and SSBC disc brake systems, I am not a fan and prefer factory engineering.
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I second this option, and this is the direction i intend to go on the '66, once i get the other 900 things taken care of on this project. Rotors and calipers are cheap and readily available.
67 ragtop
Member
Which set up? The
1965-72 Plymouth, Dodge "C" body budget front disc? Or the heavy duty set up that requires 15 inch rims? I can't locate the heavy duty option on their website.
Are you saying your parts car has disc brakes? If it's a '67, you will have some sought after, and maybe valuable parts. The Budd systems have their challenges, but I remain a BIG fan of them, depends on how much you plan to drive yours, your threshold for costly treasure hunts, etc. Otherwise, Russ' summary above is spot on, and a great summary.
I have found it a bit amusing that the orig factory disc brakes (Chrysler and Corvette) were 4-piston caliper units. Yet they were known to be troublesome and expensive to fix, back then. Then, the single-piston caliper came out and everybody was pleased with how much simpler they were to rebuild and how well they lasted. Seems like Corvette never did go that direction, so expensive rebuilds were just a part of the Corvette culture, it seemed. With the most costly Corvette rebuilds including NEW caliper halves, until the stainless steel sleeve operations came to be popular.
Then, as vehicle speeds and such started to increase, brake performance had to increase, too. So the 6-piston caliper was born, for MORE clamping force AND a more uniform clamping force of the pads to the rotors. Which tends to validate the reason for the multi-piston calipers in the first place.
Stainless steel sleeves for the caliper pistons plus syn brake fluid should make them last a lot longer, I suspect, but at a price.
Scarebird's items look interesting and neat. Just check back periodically to see IF the parts used might have changed. Depending upon IF the auto supply source for rebuildable items might have changed! I like their orientation of using OEM-validated/produced parts, BUT what they might use might have a supply which "dries up" as time progresses, by observation.
I suspect that for general use, or even HD use, the single-piston caliper disc brakes can work well, especially with HD metallic pads. So, no real need to chase the earlier items unless that's what you might desire. IF you might desire to go with the earlier items, I might suggest the stainless steel sleeve operation and good syn brake fluid to help decrease the latent moisture collection and related corrosion situation, for good measure. Not unlike what the Corvette people found out long ago. Which THEN makes the "big deals" finding some good rotors and a rebuildable correct booster.
Just some thoughts and observations,
CBODY67
Then, as vehicle speeds and such started to increase, brake performance had to increase, too. So the 6-piston caliper was born, for MORE clamping force AND a more uniform clamping force of the pads to the rotors. Which tends to validate the reason for the multi-piston calipers in the first place.
Stainless steel sleeves for the caliper pistons plus syn brake fluid should make them last a lot longer, I suspect, but at a price.
Scarebird's items look interesting and neat. Just check back periodically to see IF the parts used might have changed. Depending upon IF the auto supply source for rebuildable items might have changed! I like their orientation of using OEM-validated/produced parts, BUT what they might use might have a supply which "dries up" as time progresses, by observation.
I suspect that for general use, or even HD use, the single-piston caliper disc brakes can work well, especially with HD metallic pads. So, no real need to chase the earlier items unless that's what you might desire. IF you might desire to go with the earlier items, I might suggest the stainless steel sleeve operation and good syn brake fluid to help decrease the latent moisture collection and related corrosion situation, for good measure. Not unlike what the Corvette people found out long ago. Which THEN makes the "big deals" finding some good rotors and a rebuildable correct booster.
Just some thoughts and observations,
CBODY67
carrman
Senior Member
When Kraumaster owned my Newport, he converted to front disc brakes using the booster and master cylinder from a Formal. He even gave me a spare booster and master with the car. Dunno how he did it but it works and works well.
wyldebill
New Member
Yes the 300 is a factory disk brake car. I'm not planning on using the bud brake due to the expense of rebuild parts. I do plan on using the power booster though.
Have that booster rebuilt by Dewey then. A good investment. Get a new 67 Disc Brake master cylinder too. From the disc brake donor car use the prop valve from the driver side frame rail, all the hard lines for use as patterns for new ones (I would NOT use the old hard lines as they can rust out from the inside and look OK). Use NEW flex hoses front and rear. Note where the hard lines mount on the front stub frame, as it's slightly different than a drum brake car IIRC - perhaps grab the little mounting tabs that hold the hard line and flex line where they join.
Mr C
Senior Member
Only one error regarding the rotors that I felt obliged to correct.
The Budd rotors bolf to a hub assemby. All Budd rotors have the same bolt circle for the hub. The hubs are what give the different bolt circles for the rims to bolt to. There are two different hubs for Budd brakes: Imperial or "Other C body". Since the car is a Chrysler, it should have the 5 x 4.5 bolt circle.
Agreed, however, if he's looking to purchase new rotors he may still find it difficult to find ones with the correct bolt circle, as there are many out there as non-2 pc rotors, and have by default the Imperial bolt circle only. The Imperial Club set up a run of replacement rotors that fit Imperial bolt circles - additionally there were rotors made adapted from Toyota Supra rotors in the 1990s. All I'm saying is that there is a lot of choice out there and be careful because one can make expensive mistakes.
His best bet is to call or message Craig @mobileparts - he'll have the right parts.
His best bet is to call or message Craig @mobileparts - he'll have the right parts.
Dan Scully
Well-Known Member
The scare bird kit I got for the 64 880 uses all pretty common parts. I went with their larger calipers, but it uses GM pads and mid 70s Volare piston and rebuild parts. The rotors are 77 Cordoba. I might buy a set of rotors just to have in case those might go away, everything else should be around for a long time.
chipieal
Member
Don't Forget that Chrysler offered "Aircraft Style Disc Brakes" from 1949 to 1954. They were standard on the Crown Imperial Limos. It was also an option on the regular production Chrysler (I believe it was a $300.00 option - $3500.00 in 2022).
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