commando1
Old Man with a Hat
I'm not looking to go where no man has gone before. Just to Walmart. . .
electric cars...
- Thread starter CanCritter
- Start date
Yep, and don't forget the anti-matter containment pods.Seriously, these electric vehicles have a ways to go. I do admire the technologies, but not sure of the practicality yet for all the reasons mentioned.
Perhaps the millenials (my children aged 30 and 28 now) and the Gen Z's (people born after 1996) will (1) accept the cost/benefit formula of the technology, or (2) maybe the "holy grail" of NON-ICE propulsion (whether electric or something else) will be discovered by the time they all turn 50.
There is so much misinformation in the first post that this whole thread is a waste of time trying to respond to it. I have learned my lesson on this site not to try and change anyone's opinion when their minds are closed and their opinions are long ago made up, despite the reality of progress. Too many really old men here and I am not talking just about age.
CanCritter
Senior Member
l put this up for debate....no debate no awnsers...just tryin to sort through the bull
300cruiser
Active Member
Not in the price/performance range of the Volt but I'd drive a Tesla S series or BMW i8 any day. An added benefit in Ontario is that you get to use the HOV lanes which would greatly reduce my commute times. But alas, these options are not in my budget so I'll go back to my two SUV's and fuel guzzling 440 and watch the hybrids blow by in HOV lane.
300cruiser
Active Member
As an added note; a co-worker has owned a BMW i3 for two years and has no regrets. His commute is relatively short and is all city. It's really fugly, but it gets him around and is reliable. If your commute was limited to city driving, why not?
Rwc
Senior Member
It seems like without Government incentives they would be less common than they are. Certainly the free market has not embraced the EV as a good alternative yet. For an easy commute they suffice, but for anyone using them for an every day tool of trade I can't see it.
Kind of tying into this some of the road guys I know that have Hybrids find most of the incentives to buy one go away fairly quickly. The battery cells are not going to live as long as the car, and are pricey when their time is up.
Kind of tying into this some of the road guys I know that have Hybrids find most of the incentives to buy one go away fairly quickly. The battery cells are not going to live as long as the car, and are pricey when their time is up.
72Fury
Senior Member
I actually like them. I've talked to several Volt owners. Some are not using gas at all. No kidding. They do charge the car up every night, and drive them about 30 miles a day. The newer Volts have a longer range. Customer satisfaction on the Volt is one of the higher rankings in the automotive industry. And none of them said they could see a difference in their utility bill.
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
twostick
Senior Member
$57K+ and they lose $130K+ on every one they build from what I've read about them.
$190K for a glorified Prius...
Kevin
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
Oh gawd, it's nowhere close to being practical yet.
They're writing off the losses to R&D and Goodwill.
They're writing off the losses to R&D and Goodwill.
twostick
Senior Member
I think they use the car to keep their CAFE numbers down so they don't get penalized on their thirstier models.
Kevin
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
And Carbon Credits.
GM is still losing money on every Spark and I'm guessing Nissan takes a hit on every Leaf.
GM is still losing money on every Spark and I'm guessing Nissan takes a hit on every Leaf.
New technology is almost always a money loser until volumes can be built up so that production costs can drop and economies of scale can kick in. Battery costs are dropping very fast since new large scale automated manufacturing plants are being brought on line now. Having multiple suppliers also causes competition that also drives down costs. The question is whether the technology has a future or not to be making the initial investment (and taking a loss) in the first place. Apparently Mercedes, once an avid non-supporter of electric vehicles, now has a product plan of introducing 10 different models in the coming years:
http://www.autonews.com/article/20161007/COPY01/310079965/mercedes-gives-itself-an-electric-makeover
Fuel cells will be an option only where electrics won't cut it (long distances or very cold climates at least for now), since electric vehicles are much less complex and therefore less costly and the infrastructure for electrics are not nearly the problem (still a problem though) compared to hydrogen stations. With all the talk of self driving cars and global warming forces, the automobile will be going through more change in the next decade or two than has occurred in the last century.
http://www.autonews.com/article/20161007/COPY01/310079965/mercedes-gives-itself-an-electric-makeover
Fuel cells will be an option only where electrics won't cut it (long distances or very cold climates at least for now), since electric vehicles are much less complex and therefore less costly and the infrastructure for electrics are not nearly the problem (still a problem though) compared to hydrogen stations. With all the talk of self driving cars and global warming forces, the automobile will be going through more change in the next decade or two than has occurred in the last century.
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
You guys are right F these electric cars. Where is my flying car it's 2016 we should have flying cars, dammit! 
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
Jeeses, Dave. Try and keep up, will ya?You guys are right F these electric cars. Where is my flying car it's 2016 we should have flying cars, dammit!
http://jalopnik.com/heres-the-secret-flying-car-from-googles-co-founder-1788146012
i grew up waiting on this one ... by the year 2000 (16 years ago), we were gonna have them. And I want mine to fold into a briefcase like George's did. .
Back to being serious again, I'm also a "veteran" of the Car Wars from the inside of one of these OEM's.
I always believed in the potential of new technologies for vehicle propulsion, worked on electrics, fuel cell, and hybrid propulsion at various times from 1990-2005. I still want these "alt-prop" technologies to continue to improve -- the change is exciting for me and Im cool with all of it.
BTW, these brilliant engineers (not me - i counted beans and got money for them to do the work) have overcome tremendous obstacles to get where we are today with electrics -- both in the OEM and supplier companies.
Yet, tremendous obstacles remain VERSUS ICE-propelled cars as to price/performance equation .. for consumers like me at least. I still have an "expectation" and a "lifestyle" where electrics (battery or fuel cell) don't yet work for me.
For other people, the alt-prop technologies are fine with them now, and things are only gonna get better. So while other choices remain, and no mandates are forcing me to make other choices, I still choose ICE vehicles -- which are better than they have EVER been BTW. Cleaner, powerful, lighter, safer, etc and so on.
I remain hopeful some alt-prop deal is gonna rise to my expectations in my lifetime. Alternatively, if I am still gettin' around on my own in 20 years, maybe my lifestyle and what electrics offer even now (in 20 years they will ALSO be better) will likely dovetail nicely.
good thread ... interesting views come up whenever this gets kicked around
.Back to being serious again, I'm also a "veteran" of the Car Wars from the inside of one of these OEM's.
I always believed in the potential of new technologies for vehicle propulsion, worked on electrics, fuel cell, and hybrid propulsion at various times from 1990-2005. I still want these "alt-prop" technologies to continue to improve -- the change is exciting for me and Im cool with all of it.
BTW, these brilliant engineers (not me - i counted beans and got money for them to do the work
) have overcome tremendous obstacles to get where we are today with electrics -- both in the OEM and supplier companies.Yet, tremendous obstacles remain VERSUS ICE-propelled cars as to price/performance equation .. for consumers like me at least. I still have an "expectation" and a "lifestyle" where electrics (battery or fuel cell) don't yet work for me.
For other people, the alt-prop technologies are fine with them now, and things are only gonna get better. So while other choices remain, and no mandates are forcing me to make other choices, I still choose ICE vehicles -- which are better than they have EVER been BTW. Cleaner, powerful, lighter, safer, etc and so on.
I remain hopeful some alt-prop deal is gonna rise to my expectations in my lifetime. Alternatively, if I am still gettin' around on my own in 20 years, maybe my lifestyle and what electrics offer even now (in 20 years they will ALSO be better) will likely dovetail nicely.
good thread ... interesting views come up whenever this gets kicked around
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You guys are right F these electric cars. Where is my flying car it's 2016 we should have flying cars, dammit!
But, but, but, electrics have huge torque off the line, just like a diesel! You ought to love them!
FinFury
Member
Ok this is not completely on the topic but still related if/when the number of electric cars increase significantly. It also gives a slightly different view on the whole conversation.
This is free quote based on my memory from a blog/article from CEO (or some other high level guy) from finnish oil refinery company Neste (our local texaco) that I read some time ago. When refining oil, only 8% of crude oil can be transformed into aviation fuel. The rest goes into gasoline, diesel and all sorts of lubrication mainly used in applications requiring internal combustion engine. I would imagine that we are quite far from electric airplanes and the traveling with an airplane is not going to end anytime soon? Therefore if electric vehicles become significantly more popular, we will have vast amounts of excess fuel available and practically nowhere to use it... or maybe we have, in our gas gusling big blocks
So according to this theory, the fuel prices should drop based on supply and demand which would probably make the combustion engine based cars more appealing again.
This is free quote based on my memory from a blog/article from CEO (or some other high level guy) from finnish oil refinery company Neste (our local texaco) that I read some time ago. When refining oil, only 8% of crude oil can be transformed into aviation fuel. The rest goes into gasoline, diesel and all sorts of lubrication mainly used in applications requiring internal combustion engine. I would imagine that we are quite far from electric airplanes and the traveling with an airplane is not going to end anytime soon? Therefore if electric vehicles become significantly more popular, we will have vast amounts of excess fuel available and practically nowhere to use it... or maybe we have, in our gas gusling big blocks
So according to this theory, the fuel prices should drop based on supply and demand which would probably make the combustion engine based cars more appealing again.
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