engine and air cleaner colors
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cbarge
World Famous Barge in a Budget
Read post #11,add 51 years since the car left the factory and how many hands were involved in the car's life since then..
My car is far from stock or original--but "looks" the part..
Sorta kinda maybe, mostly.....
cbarge
World Famous Barge in a Budget
Yes for 383..440HP kinda sorta
I would say yes, turquoise would have been the color of your original engine assuming it was a 383. Here is an example of a 69 SF with an E63 H code 383 that is definitely turquoise. This was a parts car that I scrounged a bunch of parts from a guy who was making a false RR or Super Bee so he gutted the engine and trans.
Having said that, if you're putting an HP 440 in it, you can paint either color as it becomes preference at that point. It's no longer original so all bets are off, it's how you want to present it. Either you don't mention that it's an HP 440 and let people assume it's a 383...but why do that, ;-) or you present it as a TNT and tell the story. I can't say definitively if the TNT's were Hemi Orange or Turquoise but once the engine is changed, it doesn't matter does it?
Having said that, if you're putting an HP 440 in it, you can paint either color as it becomes preference at that point. It's no longer original so all bets are off, it's how you want to present it. Either you don't mention that it's an HP 440 and let people assume it's a 383...but why do that, ;-) or you present it as a TNT and tell the story. I can't say definitively if the TNT's were Hemi Orange or Turquoise but once the engine is changed, it doesn't matter does it?
Just mix Turquoise, Blue, Hemi Orange, together all bases covered.
I found the documents I've collected over the years and the result is the same as we've found here. No one seems to know what the correct colors are for engines. The only constant is inconsistency..... The documents I have are a conglomeration of articles from many different sources that I've collected and pasted into a couple of word documents, hardly any are in total agreement. As a general consensus of the data I have, for 1969, when it comes to 383's, it appears most if not all were C-body 383's were turquoise, same with 350 HP 440's. Everything I've read indicates 375 HP 440's would have been Hemi Orange but anyone who've tried to put together a comprehensive list all say that isn't definitive either as seen above
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With ac and still orange, that I would’ve bet money should have been turquoise.
@69CoronetRT is always helpful with this sort of thing.
1970FuryConv
Old Man with a Hat
I had 69 Monaco 4dr HT 383 2bbl. Original engine color was turquoise.
69CoronetRT
Senior Member
the colors and applications change by year so don’t try to compare any other year to 1969. What happened in 68 or 70 may or may not apply.
For 1969....B body non A/C four speed got the 335 horse orange engine regardless of name plate. That’s why you see orange engines in four speed Satellites, Chargers and Coronets. There was no 330 horse four speed application in 69.
Super Bees and Road Runners without A/C and automatic transmissions got the 335 horse assembly. All other B bodies with automatics got the turquoise 330 horse assembly.
Any B body with A/C got the turquoise 330 horse regardless of transmission or nameplate.
As there is no C body 335 horse assembly, all C body 383s are turquoise regardless of application. This is verified by the engine assembly codes on the broadcast sheet. If you had/saw/knew of an orange 383 in a 69 C body, it will be up to you to prove it with documentation.
Don’t fall into the common VIN decode “But I saw it on the Internet” trap myth. An H in the VIN only tells you the car got a 383-4bbl. It doesn’t tell you WHICH 383-4 the car received. It does not tell you the HP rating. The same holds true for the E63 code on the tag.
Printed and online sources usually don’t have the knowledge or space to cover the different applications between 68, 69 and 70s.
Thanks for the info, do you have a response to the OP's question on the 300 440 HP? As seen from @cbarge his 69 Chrysler 440 HP was turquoise but it seems all Plymouth and Dodge C-Body 440 HP's were hemi orange.
69CoronetRT
Senior Member
I think you’d find the C body 440 HP assembly is make agnostic meaning the same assembly went in Plymouth’s, Dodges and Chryslers. Meaning the 440 HP should be orange regardless of what it went into.
That’s easy enough to confirm with Broadcast sheets. There’s no reason it should be different.
Yet, I haven’t researched C bodies like I have B bodies and I’m not at home to check sheets.
That’s easy enough to confirm with Broadcast sheets. There’s no reason it should be different.
Yet, I haven’t researched C bodies like I have B bodies and I’m not at home to check sheets.
69 300 vert
Well-Known Member
I've had mine for ~ 20 years and followed them since I was 18. Memories fade, but I believe the one I wanted to buy in 1973 was orange. From following these so many years I'm reasonably certain the '69 L code engine was orange. Air cleaner is black and yours would have come with the TNT pie tin.
Is your engine original and have any traces of paint left?
IN the case or restorations, what's on the car now (if it's unmolested) would be the most correct for THAT particular vehicle.
There CAN be a lot of good information in the books, though.
As for the "orange" engine colors, my evolving theory is that ONLY the cars with the 268/284 (original '67 GTX/'68 Road Runner) cams were painted orange, other than the 426 Street HEMI. Others, even if termed "high performance" in the sales literature, but not have the genuine HP camshaft and such, were painted the corporate color for the model year. Which would explain why my '70 Monaco "N" (and Carter AVS, regular 4bbl cam) is painted OEM blue, but a '70 Road Runner "N" (and Holley 4bbl) would have been orange. Of course, the "orange" would be "Street HEMI Orange".
I'd heard the issue of orange vs blue, automatic vs manual, a/c or not, for years, but when I was looking through the AMA Specs (at www.hamtramck-historical.com) for '70 specific cars, when a 'Cuda 383 "N" was different from a "70 Barracuda "N", or a '70 Satellite "N" was different from a '70 Road Runner 383 "N", THAT's where the issue of color came into perspective (as did the related camshaft specs)!
On the assembly lines, the predominant way to identify "things" was with colors and color code stripes, NOT numbers specifically, although assembly instructions (build manuals) might define them as color codes and option code/assembly numbers. Still, "color codes" were what determined what was put in a particular vehicle. Therefore, with an engine hanging on the hook at the "engine drop" part of the line, it was much easier to see color at a glance, rather than stop to check numbers. Now, IF the person loading the conveyor for the engines might get one our of sequence, but they were still "383 4bbl "N", that's how it went to the line, with no time to change it if the issue was discovered at the last second. In which case, the "mistake" lived on into the restoration realm decades later.
The color and type issue also explains why the car might have the correct interior in it (model, style, and color) but have the build sheet attached to it for a different VIN. It was grabbed by visuals rather than looking for the build sheet and matching the VIN. Which is something we had discovered to have happened when build sheets became important information tools in the 1980s. When the retrieved build sheets for a particular car didn't match the VIN of the car they were found in.
Which makes my "268/284 cam = orange be pretty reasonable to me. BTAIM.
Might have to do some looking on the undersides of the block and such to see if parts of the engine still have the OEM paint on them. Air cleaner would be the same semi-gloss/satiny black paint as the engine (alternator belt adjusting, power steering pump and brackets, plus pulleys) brackets and a/c compressor.
One reason for the "differences" in what some books might claim and what came out on the cars was due to the issue of "keeping the line running" and (in the noted case of engine colors) using up what was "in stock" for paint if the correct paint might not have been available when it was needed. "Paint" was more for rust prevention on the cast iron castings rather than for strict cosmetics (as on exterior body panels).
Before all of the more recent restoration paints came available (like in 1981), we got some color swatches and the '66 Dodge pickup color "Desert Turquoise" matched the engine color of my '67 Newport perfectly. Got a small amount mixes in acrylic enamel. Painted the new oil pan of rthat car with it. Sprayed the new pan with B-12 (in pre-spray brake cleaner days), cut it with some generic enamel reducer from Home Depot, then used a (then new on the market) Pre-Val glass jar spray unit to apply it. Worked out well and it still shines like new.
By comparison, engine enamel was pretty inexpensive-type enamel. Not acrylic enamel, typically. Enough shine to look decent and cover the cast iron for rust prevention.
Enjoy!
CBODY67
There CAN be a lot of good information in the books, though.
As for the "orange" engine colors, my evolving theory is that ONLY the cars with the 268/284 (original '67 GTX/'68 Road Runner) cams were painted orange, other than the 426 Street HEMI. Others, even if termed "high performance" in the sales literature, but not have the genuine HP camshaft and such, were painted the corporate color for the model year. Which would explain why my '70 Monaco "N" (and Carter AVS, regular 4bbl cam) is painted OEM blue, but a '70 Road Runner "N" (and Holley 4bbl) would have been orange. Of course, the "orange" would be "Street HEMI Orange".
I'd heard the issue of orange vs blue, automatic vs manual, a/c or not, for years, but when I was looking through the AMA Specs (at www.hamtramck-historical.com) for '70 specific cars, when a 'Cuda 383 "N" was different from a "70 Barracuda "N", or a '70 Satellite "N" was different from a '70 Road Runner 383 "N", THAT's where the issue of color came into perspective (as did the related camshaft specs)!
On the assembly lines, the predominant way to identify "things" was with colors and color code stripes, NOT numbers specifically, although assembly instructions (build manuals) might define them as color codes and option code/assembly numbers. Still, "color codes" were what determined what was put in a particular vehicle. Therefore, with an engine hanging on the hook at the "engine drop" part of the line, it was much easier to see color at a glance, rather than stop to check numbers. Now, IF the person loading the conveyor for the engines might get one our of sequence, but they were still "383 4bbl "N", that's how it went to the line, with no time to change it if the issue was discovered at the last second. In which case, the "mistake" lived on into the restoration realm decades later.
The color and type issue also explains why the car might have the correct interior in it (model, style, and color) but have the build sheet attached to it for a different VIN. It was grabbed by visuals rather than looking for the build sheet and matching the VIN. Which is something we had discovered to have happened when build sheets became important information tools in the 1980s. When the retrieved build sheets for a particular car didn't match the VIN of the car they were found in.
Which makes my "268/284 cam = orange be pretty reasonable to me. BTAIM.
Might have to do some looking on the undersides of the block and such to see if parts of the engine still have the OEM paint on them. Air cleaner would be the same semi-gloss/satiny black paint as the engine (alternator belt adjusting, power steering pump and brackets, plus pulleys) brackets and a/c compressor.
One reason for the "differences" in what some books might claim and what came out on the cars was due to the issue of "keeping the line running" and (in the noted case of engine colors) using up what was "in stock" for paint if the correct paint might not have been available when it was needed. "Paint" was more for rust prevention on the cast iron castings rather than for strict cosmetics (as on exterior body panels).
Before all of the more recent restoration paints came available (like in 1981), we got some color swatches and the '66 Dodge pickup color "Desert Turquoise" matched the engine color of my '67 Newport perfectly. Got a small amount mixes in acrylic enamel. Painted the new oil pan of rthat car with it. Sprayed the new pan with B-12 (in pre-spray brake cleaner days), cut it with some generic enamel reducer from Home Depot, then used a (then new on the market) Pre-Val glass jar spray unit to apply it. Worked out well and it still shines like new.
By comparison, engine enamel was pretty inexpensive-type enamel. Not acrylic enamel, typically. Enough shine to look decent and cover the cast iron for rust prevention.
Enjoy!
CBODY67
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James Richardson
Active Member
To me the torquoise seems more chrysler specifically than the more common orange. What color is the car?
I just recently bought the Chrysler brand torquoise spray cans and am really impressed with it. Really tough finish.
I just recently bought the Chrysler brand torquoise spray cans and am really impressed with it. Really tough finish.
69CoronetRT
Senior Member
Most of the time, there is no reason to guess or incorrectly speculate what happened.
Accurate answers exist to most questions. They just take time to properly research.
Collection and comparison of factory documents (save the broadcast sheet, window sticker and tag!) will always trump fading/wrong memories and wrong or incomplete information published through the years.
My experiences have been that you have to look at EVERYTHING available, not just a part of it, with respect to "factory documentation". Then position that against what actually cam out on the vehicles (documented by valid and credible research, including data plates). Then position that against the various dynamics of the assembly line situation. Plus the particular shift the vehicle was built in which plant. The items I mentioned have been observed to have happened over the years, not just in Chrysler plants, either.
As for "factory literature", consider that the initial literature (sales and service) had to have been approved for printing several months prior to that year's show date. So that they'd be at the dealerships just before show date. IF, per chance, these picutres and such were done before the financial dept approved the production cost of the vehicle, desiring it to be lower, then some things had to change to meet the new criteria. This was mentioned in the DeLorean book on his time at GM/Pontiac. Chevrolet used to send out "Preliminary Information": service literature so that the PDI dept would know the basic tune-up specs and such when the new cars got there ahead of show date. The regular service information came later.
Finding out some of these "changes" is where www.hamtramck-historical.com comes into play, with the letters to dealers which detailed these changes from the earlier published information. Remember the fine print in the sales literature? "Specifications and availability are subject to change, without notice"? (paraphrased)
I found the attached images in www.hamtramck-historical.com, for reference purposes. The first two images are for 1969, the third/last image is for 1970 model year. FWIW.
In any correct restoration, putting the car back like it came (verifying it in photographs during teardown) is the best way to do things. Even some of the "How To Restore Your ______" books have some errors in them, by observation. Correctness might not matter as much on a C-body, but it CAN on a B/E-body, in many cases. But to many, it's still nice to know things are as they were built at the factory.
Respectfully,
CBODY67
In many cases, the real issue is finding credible information and learning which sources generally have the highest level of credibility, from their own experiences. In the earlier days of our Mopar Club, we had some guys who were around the cars when they were new and when they were (later) used cars, back in the middle '60s and later. Other members, as we later determined, were relaying information they'd read in books, some of which was good and some not so good, but played it as if it was from their own experiences. It took a while, but the more credible information sources were revealed. Yearly treks to Mopar Nationals, over several decades, provided a really good resource to look at OEM cars and correctly restored vehicles. Expanding the personal data base, so to speak.
As for "factory literature", consider that the initial literature (sales and service) had to have been approved for printing several months prior to that year's show date. So that they'd be at the dealerships just before show date. IF, per chance, these picutres and such were done before the financial dept approved the production cost of the vehicle, desiring it to be lower, then some things had to change to meet the new criteria. This was mentioned in the DeLorean book on his time at GM/Pontiac. Chevrolet used to send out "Preliminary Information": service literature so that the PDI dept would know the basic tune-up specs and such when the new cars got there ahead of show date. The regular service information came later.
Finding out some of these "changes" is where www.hamtramck-historical.com comes into play, with the letters to dealers which detailed these changes from the earlier published information. Remember the fine print in the sales literature? "Specifications and availability are subject to change, without notice"? (paraphrased)
I found the attached images in www.hamtramck-historical.com, for reference purposes. The first two images are for 1969, the third/last image is for 1970 model year. FWIW.
In any correct restoration, putting the car back like it came (verifying it in photographs during teardown) is the best way to do things. Even some of the "How To Restore Your ______" books have some errors in them, by observation. Correctness might not matter as much on a C-body, but it CAN on a B/E-body, in many cases. But to many, it's still nice to know things are as they were built at the factory.
Respectfully,
CBODY67
Last edited:
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