Engine build

[68monaco]

Hello gentlemen, I've decided to redo the 68 Monaco 383, number match, with the 496 440 Source .30 over, running the dish pistons, stroker kit and Edlebrock 2086 upper end kit. Should have 10.4 compression with this with an 84cc combustion chamber. Also running 3.23 sure grip. 750 cfm Holley vacuum secondary. With this setup I should scare a few people. Maybe even myself. I'm also rebuilding the 727 Torque Flight going to use the TCI 141200 2600 stall converter. My tech question is that I have heard that I would need a neutral balance torque converter is that the case? Can't I run a balanced torque converter such as the for mentioned? Thanks in advance.

 

[Davea Lux]

Hello gentlemen, I've decided to redo the 68 Monaco 383, number match, with the 496 440 Source .30 over, running the dish pistons, stroker kit and Edlebrock 2086 upper end kit. Should have 10.4 compression with this with an 84cc combustion chamber. Also running 3.23 sure grip. 750 cfm Holley vacuum secondary. With this setup I should scare a few people. Maybe even myself. I'm also rebuilding the 727 Torque Flight going to use the TCI 141200 2600 stall converter. My tech question is that I have heard that I would need a neutral balance torque converter is that the case? Can't I run a balanced torque converter such as the for mentioned? Thanks in advance.

Most 496 stroker kits are internally balanced, and would therefore run a neutral convertor, you do not need or want a balanced convertor with that setup. Balanced convertors should only be used on a build that needs external balancing. Read the technical specs for your prospective purchase and go with what they recommend. With a 496 stroker kit and the Edelbrock top end kit, you should be turning around 550-575 hp, this is probably more than the factory 3.23 sure grip can handle without self destructing. Rear end will probably live on the street with some TLC but that kind of defeats the purpose of all that horsepower. At 10.4 compression ratio, you are also going to be pushing the limits of pump premium, you might need some octane booster or invest in some Sunoco 260 racing fuel, which is very expensive! With 496 cid, you will probably find that the 750 carb is on the small side, strokers require a lot of feeding. I would personally go with a Holley 850 dual pumper with mechanical secondaries but I am sure others will chime in.

Dave

 

[MJFUR]

Based on your tire diameter the 2600rpm stall converter may still be slipping when driving at normal highway speeds with the 3.23 rear end. I agree that a 750cfm may be a bit on the small side.

Spicer Engine RPM Calculator

 

[1970FuryConv]

10.4 compression is high for a street cruiser. I have read that you can go with higher compression with aluminum heads, but still I think you will have a problem using only premium gas. Racers use higher compression with a bigger cam because of decreased cylinder pressure, but a race cam may not be street friendly.

 

[68monaco]

Thank you gentlemen. This confirms what I needed. I had built a 440 for another Mopar I had. Went 30 over with flat tops, same upper end, compression was real close to the same. Didn't have any issues with the 93 octane no ethanol gas. I occasionally ran a octane booster. I was on the fence with the 750 carb too, I'll jump up to the 850. As far as the 2600 stall speed with my tire size at 225/60r 15 it puts me at 2960 RPM at 70 mph 2756 RPM at 65 mph. Thanks for the calculator.

 

[FURYGT]

Thank you gentlemen. This confirms what I needed. I had built a 440 for another Mopar I had. Went 30 over with flat tops, same upper end, compression was real close to the same. Didn't have any issues with the 93 octane no ethanol gas. I occasionally ran a octane booster. I was on the fence with the 750 carb too, I'll jump up to the 850. As far as the 2600 stall speed with my tire size at 225/60r 15 it puts me at 2960 RPM at 70 mph 2756 RPM at 65 mph. Thanks for the calculator.

It would be helpful to post what the Edelbrock 2806 upper end kit consists of for lazy folks like me that don't want to go and look it up. My additional comments are based on my ownership of a '68 Sport Fury with a 520" pump gas stroker. Your compression ratio is to high for pump gas. Keep in mind the price of pump gas. I run an 800 cfm Edelbrock carb with a high volume mechanical fuel pump and a Holley blue electric pump that has a fuel pressure regulator and gauge before the mechanical fuel pump. Not sure when you had your last stroker but today's fuel really sucks.

I agree that your torque converter stall speed is to high. You want something close to a stock HEMI torque converter for a street car. Your tires are a smaller diameter than the stock size tire and therefore you gear ratios is going to be a bit lower (numerically higher) than the 3.23 ratio.

In addition to the engine build cost, you are looking at close to $3500 for a transmission rebuild that will not self destruct with the stroker and another $1500 for a strong 3.23 third member.

 

[68monaco]

It would be helpful to post what the Edelbrock 2806 upper end kit consists of for lazy folks like me that don't want to go and look it up. My additional comments are based on my ownership of a '68 Sport Fury with a 520" pump gas stroker. Your compression ratio is to high for pump gas. Keep in mind the price of pump gas. I run an 800 cfm Edelbrock carb with a high volume mechanical fuel pump and a Holley blue electric pump that has a fuel pressure regulator and gauge before the mechanical fuel pump. Not sure when you had your last stroker but today's fuel really sucks.

I agree that your torque converter stall speed is to high. You want something close to a stock HEMI torque converter for a street car. Your tires are a smaller diameter than the stock size tire and therefore you gear ratios is going to be a bit lower (numerically higher) than the 3.23 ratio.

In addition to the engine build cost, you are looking at close to $3500 for a transmission rebuild that will not self destruct with the stroker and another $1500 for a strong 3.23 third member.

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www.summitracing.com

 

[68monaco]

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Get fast, Free Standard Shipping on orders over Summit Racing Equipment from $109 -- no shipping, handling, or rural fees! Exclusions apply.

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Well I guess the link won't work. Go on Summit Racing and search Edlebrock 2086

 

[CBODY67]

Based on your tire diameter the 2600rpm stall converter may still be slipping when driving at normal highway speeds with the 3.23 rear end. I agree that a 750cfm may be a bit on the small side.

Spicer Engine RPM Calculator

The converter might not be "slipping" per se, but it will not be fully locked-up hydraulicly as a tighter converter would be. Meaning that on an incline, the engine rpm would remain the same but the vehicle speed would drop more than if the converter was letting the engine work more to maintain speed with existing torque production. Yet at 5-10mph higher road speeds, things work normally.

For example, on my '70 Monaco 383 "N" and 3.23 rear axle ratio and 225/75R-15 tires, below 62mph the throttle response was decent, but soggy. From 62mph and higher, every minute difference in throttle input varied the mph immediately and proportionately. That engine also came with the 10.75" converter for a bit higher stall speed.

Just my experiences,
CBODY67

 

[68monaco]

I want to thank all you guys that responded, makes it easier to move forward. Also I will be needing a new oil pan and pick up. I know our c bodies are different underneath. Anyone have a suggestion on a good pan?

 

[FURYGT]

I want to thank all you guys that responded, makes it easier to move forward. Also I will be needing a new oil pan and pick up. I know our c bodies are different underneath. Anyone have a suggestion on a good pan?

I used a stock oil pan. My engine builder did a little hammer work to the pan. Use a windage tray. Feel free to reach out to me with any questions.

Make sure you have a good cooling system as stroked engines tend to produce more heat.

 

[67_300_Convertible]

with my tire size at 225/60r 15

Are those tires too skinny to be behind a 500-inch stroker, even with 3.23 gears and a Sure Grip?

 

[68monaco]

Are those tires too skinny to be behind a 500-inch stroker, even with 3.23 gears and a Sure Grip?

I'm not looking to do any competition racing with it. They are small but to go bigger I would have to get different wheels with offset. Not really interested in doing that now. But you're right. To get the power completely down to the ground I would go bigger.

 

[HOT FURY]

Hello gentlemen, I've decided to redo the 68 Monaco 383, number match, with the 496 440 Source .30 over, running the dish pistons, stroker kit and Edlebrock 2086 upper end kit. Should have 10.4 compression with this with an 84cc combustion chamber. Also running 3.23 sure grip. 750 cfm Holley vacuum secondary. With this setup I should scare a few people. Maybe even myself. I'm also rebuilding the 727 Torque Flight going to use the TCI 141200 2600 stall converter. My tech question is that I have heard that I would need a neutral balance torque converter is that the case? Can't I run a balanced torque converter such as the for mentioned? Thanks in advance.

My only question is they dont tell you the cam specs for that kit and the stroker combination you chose to build is pretty extreme as far as rod ratio and compression for a street car. I am actually in the process of building a stroker out of a 400 block I had and chose to go with one of the smaller stroker options to keep it more streetable. I would be concerned the cam may not be big enough in that edelbrock kit for the motor you are building and there are definitely better flowing heads available for the same or close to the same price. You can likely get way more out of you money getting different heads and consulting with someone at howards cams, comp cams, hughes performance, or 440 source on a cam selection based on what you intend to use the vehicle for, engine specs, final gear ratio, vehicle weight, etc rather than the one size fits all top end kits. I literally just ordered a couple weeks ago that same intake, a hydraulic roller cam, aluminum heads, and adjustable timing chain set for just a couple hundred more than that kit costs but my heads are fully cnc ported with better flow numbers and my cam was a roller cam rather than flat tappet. If I were to have picked a flat tappet cam it would have cost basically the same with better flowing heads and a properly matched cam specific to my exact needs. Just think I would explore all options before spending that money or at least get what the cam specs are to see if they are what you need since that kit looks to be more for a factory shortblock setup. Gotta let that big stroker motor breathe properly to get its full potential.