Engine noise help

[Fireguyfire]

Here’s a photo of the front of a cam from a 440 I found on the internet, and this guys cam seems to be slightly round out the block, whereas mine is flush, or even slightly recessed into the block.
I’ll attach photos of both to show what I mean.
Is this an issue?

 

[Fireguyfire]

And here’s mine

 

['66 Fury I]

Since we're grasping at straws here, here's another straw! Seems that the splash to lube the back of the gear/front of the block would be from the front cam bearing. Is it possable that the oil supply to that bearing is restricted or absent? If, when the chain and gears are off, you removed the distributor and used a priming tool and drill to run the oil pump, it should prove it one way or the other. LC

 

[CBODY67]

I concur with the idea of having an assistant work the starter as you watch for interference with the cam sprocket.

A cam bearing being cock-eyed in its hole? Probably possible, but then it would have been necessary to deform the bearing in the installation process, which would make the cam much harder to turn. So I would suspect it would have had to been installed as a square peg in a round hole sort of installer.

 

[Fireguyfire]

Thanks gents, I’ll dive in tomorrow morning when I get home from work.
I’ll start at inspecting the new chain, pulling the plugs and rotate the engine with the starter to see what I see there. If nothing then I guess I will pull the intake and get deeper into inspecting what the cam is doing without valve train pressure on it.
I’m curious how freely the cam will spin without valve train pressure.

 

[thethee]

This is a pic from when I did the timing chain on my 440 couple years ago (amongst other things). It's not really clear but mine looks to be pretty flush to the block as well and I don't think I have any rubbing noise.

 

[Fireguyfire]

I haven’t checked the bottom end yet, and a couple of people have had experiences with a bent wind age tray rubbing the counter balance on the canal at one point.
If I do get that deep into it, can you pull the oil pan in the car on a C body?

 

[Fireguyfire]

So I believe I’ve located my noise! I de idea to pull the distributor and check its shaft, which was fine and the bushing on the shaft is good and there is no side to side play in the shaft.
I next decided to check the oil pump drive shaft and found some play in the top of the shaft wheee it meshes with the cam; I rotated the engine by hand and found that the oil pump drive shaft “wobbles” and was clipping a bit of casting flash on the inside front of the engine just above the cam shaft front bearing, which is exactly where this frustrating “rub rub rub” noise is.
I then marked and removed the oil pump shaft, and it turns out the oil pump driveshaft bushing is completely worn out, and wallowed in an oblong shape. I re installed the shaft half way in and could rotate it in a “wobble” in a 1/2” out of round circle easily, so I’m sure that the top of the shaft is moving up and forward slightly each rotation, and the top of the gear of the oil pump shaft it clipping the end of the one part of the casting shaft, which would definitely lead to a “rub rub rub” sound at the top of the engine, at the top of the timing chain cover area.

I definitely need to fix it and I’m hoping that is the source of my noise!
A buddy had a brand new oil pump drive shaft that he didn’t use in an earlier 440 build so he gave me that. I’m off to my local engine machining shop first thing tomorrow to get a new bushing.
So my only hurdle is how to go about removing the worn out old bushing. I thought I could pull it through the distributor hole with my pilot bushing puller on a slide hammer, but the legs on the pilot puller are just a bit too wide to go through the hole in the bearing.

Has anyone here replaced the oil pump shaft bushing with the engine in the car, and if so how can I go about removing the old one?

 

[Big_John]

So I believe I’ve located my noise! I de idea to pull the distributor and check its shaft, which was fine and the bushing on the shaft is good and there is no side to side play in the shaft.
I next decided to check the oil pump drive shaft and found some play in the top of the shaft wheee it meshes with the cam; I rotated the engine by hand and found that the oil pump drive shaft “wobbles” and was clipping a bit of casting flash on the inside front of the engine just above the cam shaft front bearing, which is exactly where this frustrating “rub rub rub” noise is.
I then marked and removed the oil pump shaft, and it turns out the oil pump driveshaft bushing is completely worn out, and wallowed in an oblong shape. I re installed the shaft half way in and could rotate it in a “wobble” in a 1/2” out of round circle easily, so I’m sure that the top of the shaft is moving up and forward slightly each rotation, and the top of the gear of the oil pump shaft it clipping the end of the one part of the casting shaft, which would definitely lead to a “rub rub rub” sound at the top of the engine, at the top of the timing chain cover area.

I definitely need to fix it and I’m hoping that is the source of my noise!
A buddy had a brand new oil pump drive shaft that he didn’t use in an earlier 440 build so he gave me that. I’m off to my local engine machining shop first thing tomorrow to get a new bushing.
So my only hurdle is how to go about removing the worn out old bushing. I thought I could pull it through the distributor hole with my pilot bushing puller on a slide hammer, but the legs on the pilot puller are just a bit too wide to go through the hole in the bearing.

Has anyone here replaced the oil pump shaft bushing with the engine in the car, and if so how can I go about removing the old one?

I've never done one in the car... So this is just spitballing an idea.

If you look in the FSM, they use a puller that screws into the bushing. Here goes.... Remove the oil pump. I think if you used a piece of threaded rod, insert it down through the top of the engine until it pokes out the oil pump hole. Put a nut with maybe a washer, just smaller than the hole, but larger than the bushing. Pull it up and use a fender washer and nut at the top and pull it up and out. Only thing you have to watch is not unscrewing the bottom nut, but that's just as simple as holding the threaded rod from turning.

Again... Just an idea off the top of my head that uses easy to source (read cheap) parts to make a puller.

 

[Fireguyfire]

For you guys that have pulled this bushing before, is it fairly easy to pull, or is it tough? I’m guessing it might be on the easier side since it’s internal and has been lubed the entire time

 

[Big_John]

 

[Fireguyfire]

Well, I was able to modify my pinion bushing puller and pull the bushing out.
Now I need to figure out how to install a new one, as it looks like you need a special tool to do it.

 

[HWYCRZR]

A couple of choices. Some of the plastic seal drivers found at harbor freight could work, but they also have bushing drivers that are metal. Or get a threaded rod. Take the bushing to a hardware store and find about 2-3 washers that fit inside the bushing with minimal movement, then find about 2-3 more washers that have an outer diameter close Or just under the top of the bushing size. Put a nut on the bottom of the threaded rod. Stack the smaller washers that fit inside, then stack the larger washers and tighten down the top nut. You have now created a driver. Maybe a double nut at the top to give you a hammer surface. Or if you are sure you can get it started straight, find a thicker walled socket (like an impact socket) that fits the flange of the bushing. This will work if you have long enough extensions to add so you can hammer. Also sometimes by putting the bushing in the freezer for a while, the cold will shrink it down more than the room temperature block and will drive in a lot easier. Make sure you start it straight in all cases.