F the NFL...

[Jeff]

I did some googling to see how vets feel about this. The results are pretty mixed. A lot of them see the flag and anthem as symbols and that they instead fought for the Constitution and ideals. Free speech being one of the things guaranteed in this country, some are angry about the negative reaction when the right is exercised. Some think the players are jerks for doing it and others support it. They don't seem to feel they are being personally disrespected, but I'm sure some do. I didn't do an exhaustive study!

 

[zombiedog]

True. We tend to give senior execs more credit than they are due. Many are simply Machiavellian A** Holes that are in it for their own enrichment and look no further ahead than the next stock option.

This is great.

 

[amazinblue82]

More of the story from same game

source: Arian Foster, three other Dolphins players kneel during national anthem

Seahawks decided to lock arms .. but everybody stood up during the anthem. Though people probably did, seems like this "display" makes its points without dissin' anybody.

A few of the Dolphins did this .. one of these guys said (though it coulda been a Cleveland Browns player as I only heard the interview wrapping up) on ESPN that he was "just prayin' for peace man." Guess we gotta take him at his word -- his "protest" was kneeling before God to get his prayer answered.

Miami Dolphins "management" statement September 2016 last year .. i assume this is still their position on the anthem issue.

 

[The Captain]

Why watch the current NFL when you can watch vintage games from the 70s with commercials on YouTube.

 

[hsm]

My opinion is to let them protest if they want to protest, they are not physically hurting anyone by doing this. Everyone is free to express (or not express) their patriotism in what ever way they feel like. Its a free country and isn't that a great thing! I honestly think people have forgotten that. You may not agree with the message but they are allowed to say it. Its my choice to ignore the message if I don't like it.

I grew up in a military family, my Dad was in the Navy for 24 years and these protests do not bother me and I don't think they bother him either. It seems like the media spotlights these protests to get a headline or click and all it does is get people riled up and forces everyone to be the "patriotism police" and judge how patriotic you are and call people names. Then on the other hand if you are too patriotic and fly a big flag at your house or put one on your car, etc, it ticks someone off. We have all heard about those types of stories where a city or HOA makes someone take down a flag.

So I guess my point is to worry about yourself and your family and let other people live their own life and make their own decisions.

 

[65sporty]

I served in the Air Force during the first Gulf War and went overseas in defense of our country. While I may disagree with them not standing for the anthem in is their right to do so. If they really wanted to make a difference they should be going on talk shows or holding press conferences. I have seen similar things in the past with singers where during a concert they want to give there views about politics and other things and it doesn't go over well with the audience. They paid to watch them perform not give their opinions, if they want to do that go on a talk show.

 

[69CoronetRT]

As unpopular as my opinion will be, a lot of these guys risk their heads/necks/torsos/legs every play. This has nothing to do with the military as far as a protest but more to do with the leadership of our country and more specifically how minorities are treated everyday in this country. I know I'm going to get the "love it or leave it" phrase from people, but why can't we still strive to make this country better? My point is that these fellas aren't protesting the flag, military, or even our country itself. They are trying to bring forth some dialogue about the injustices that happen daily to so many US citizens. And let's not forget that these players weren't the ones charging the military millions of dollars each year for "acknowledgments" before games.

"While I disagree with what you say, I will defend to the death your right to say it"

However......I would have more respect for the position they take IF it was on their own time, not at work as pointed out above, AND they didn't have a TV audience.

I would honestly like to know what some of the guys are doing off the clock, out of uniform, and with their own money in order to "make this country better".

I believe it's a workplace issue. "Do it on your time; not mine."

 

[cantflip]

AFAIAC... this crap...

Is directly related to the loss of this...

And I feel all of it is self absorbed, self righteous BS... hasn't anyone told them "life isn't fair"? I'm having a hard time accepting that for another generation, these fellas are going to be "role models". Seems to me, they should try a little harder to act the part.

I don't understand what they are protesting. It may be where I live or what I see, but I don't see the struggle they claim as being racial as anything more than the difference between incomes and efforts.

This display doesn't do anything but alienate me and I'm sure many others... I hope these fellas are doing something more to further their cause... whatever it is, but my gut tells me most aren't.

 

[amazinblue82]

Guess I'm surprised. I thought this thread mighta come apart by now. It still might -- but even though its clear people have diverse views, the largely respectful way we've handled it so far is refreshing.

Last post for me on this thread with one more from Mitch Albom. Actually the first one on this anthem topic -- dated September 11, 2016 -- where he talks about the "idea" of America in this anthem context (excerpt):

"Kaepernick is incredibly fortunate to live where he lives. He not only has the right to ignore the flag or the anthem, he doesn’t even need a reason.

But his given reason makes his action seem misguided. First of all, it’s the national anthem, not the anthem of the United Police Departments. Abuse by police, when it happens (and if it happens once, it’s too much) is not a federally sanctioned act. The Justice Department having the power to oversee local police departments does not mean they send out directives.

Is it a problem? Of course. A big one. And one of many we face as a nation. But by Kaepernick’s thinking, any group that feels injured in this country could take a seat during anthems.

Don’t American Indians have a list a mile long? How about Mexican Americans intimidated by our immigration policies? For that matter, why shouldn’t ardent Christian football players (of which there are many) take a seat if they disagree with recent Supreme Court rulings on gay marriage? Don’t many of them feel their way of life is, if not physically then ideologically, under attack by our changing laws?

Yet people still manage to stand for the flag or anthem, to show respect, not just for fallen soldiers or those who died to protect our liberties. But for the very idea of the country itself. The idea that we can speak our minds and freely vote to solve our problems. That’s what the ritual should symbolize.

Instead, a Chicago teen tells a teacher that “America sucks,” and his teacher is disciplined (yes, really) for attempting to make him stand up. That teacher might have been better served to remind the kid that around the time he was born, this nation was mourning, people looked at our flag atop a rubble heap with tears in their eyes, they embraced it, honored it, swore to protect it, without a single note of the anthem playing.

We will not solve any problem — police or otherwise — by retreating to our separate corners and pointing fingers. The first word of our country’s name is “united.” We should try to live up to that, especially today."​

source: Albom: Anthem protesters may want to look at a calendar

Anyway, this anthem thing aint gettin' "solved" here. The underlying issues are so big .. kneel/stand debate is a symptom of those OTHER things that may take a few more generations of Americans to sort out.

I wish these cats would "stand up", play the damn game, go home to their families in one piece, and then use their own time/methods, and the fame/fortune they are blessed with, to push for any/all the causes they care about. Same thing many of you have said above.

Call me naive .. i still believe in the "idea" of America. It ain't "perfect", but no place I'd rather live. While one lifetime isn't nearly long enough to see how the "experment" all turns out, I still have hope "tomorrow" can be better than "today"

 

[LocuMob]

I don't look to athletes as role models, they're not. Anyone who gets paid millions of dollars to play a game, then is investigated for inappropriate behavior, then more "incidents" come out, is a dumbass. They don't pay these people because they are stand up citizens, they pay then for their athletic ability. I don't care what they want to stand up for, good or bad, I just want to see my team best the crap outta the other team. That's great if they have some greater cause they support, and a lot of them do a lot of great work with charities, but I don't need to hear about how your touchy feely "I believe the world owes me something" feelings got hurt because of - whatever, any reason. Bring it up sometime later, elsewhere. I can't protest the racial inequality of wages at the widget factory by refusing to sell minivans to soccer moms at Schlepping Auto, just so someone listens to me, no I have to move those units, and take to social media so I can feel important about my contribution to society. Man I feel better, I've accomplished a lot today, the world's gonna hear me before the day is done!

So yeah, stand up with your hand on your heart, and show some respect to the common folks who just shelled out half a months pay to watch you play a game for 3 hours, and suck it up.

 

[fc7_plumcrazy]

I don't watch sport.
I do sport myself or have nothing to do with it.

If you all stop watching it, too those guys will earn less money.

And you can play with your old C-bodies instead. Should be fun, too.

Carsten

 

[70bigblockdodge]

So yeah, stand up with your hand on your heart, and show some respect to the common folks who just shelled out half a months pay to watch you play a game for 3 hours, and suck it up

This is what it really comes down to.
If anyone cares what they have to say after the game good for them.

 

[Knebel]

You fought a useless war and brought misery upon men, women and children in a country you have no business being in and complain about some sports guy not putting his stupid hand on his chest for a piece of cloth? Sorry for the 14 Marines who lost their lives but that eventually comes with the job and I feel sorry for their families but... What a bunch of baloney. People really get offended over the dumbest crap. My kids still do the pledge of allegiance in school which is another relic from a time far far back. It's simply silly and actually reminds me of the "Hitler youth"... They should rather teach them something useful during that time but instead turning them into ignorant people who won't have a clue about what's going on in the world and then it's all the "different colored fellows" fault.

 

[69CoronetRT]

You fought a useless war and brought misery upon men, women and children in a country you have no business being in and complain about some sports guy not putting his stupid hand on his chest for a piece of cloth? Sorry for the 14 Marines who lost their lives but that eventually comes with the job and I feel sorry for their families but... What a bunch of baloney. People really get offended over the dumbest crap. My kids still do the pledge of allegiance in school which is another relic from a time far far back. It's simply silly and actually reminds me of the "Hitler youth"... They should rather teach them something useful during that time but instead turning them into ignorant people who won't have a clue about what's going on in the world and then it's all the "different colored fellows" fault.

"It's simply silly and actually reminds me of the "Hitler youth"... They should rather teach them something useful during that time but instead turning them into ignorant people who won't have a clue about what's going on in the world and then it's all the "different colored fellows" fault."

You are absolutely right. People get offended over the dumbest crap.

 

[stubs300]

I agree with some of what you say but as the previous post indicates there is no merit in exercising your right to protest by denigrating those that fought for your freedom. It's common knowledge that most veterans take exception when you don't stand for the anthem so why not express your protest differently.

Your damm right 100%! As a 27 yr. AF retiree, I agree totally. I also have a serious problem with ****'s that don't remove their hats during the Nat'l Anthem at sporting events..

I did some googling to see how vets feel about this. The results are pretty mixed. A lot of them see the flag and anthem as symbols and that they instead fought for the Constitution and ideals. Free speech being one of the things guaranteed in this country, some are angry about the negative reaction when the right is exercised. Some think the players are jerks for doing it and others support it. They don't seem to feel they are being personally disrespected, but I'm sure some do. I didn't do an exhaustive study!

Free speech and the 1st A is one thing. Disrespect to flag and country is a whole different game and isn't free speech, it's disrespect to America and should NOT be tolerated! Technically it's a arrest able crime, but America has turned a blind eye to that!

I served in the Air Force during the first Gulf War and went overseas in defense of our country. While I may disagree with them not standing for the anthem in is their right to do so. I have seen similar things in the past with singers where during a concert they want to give there views about politics and other things and it doesn't go over well with the audience. They paid to watch them perform not give their opinions, if they want to do that go on a talk show.

See what I said above. Free speech is one thing, disrespect to flag and Country is different.
Roger Water's is one **** that comes to mind that should shut his F-ing pie hole and play guitar!

 

[1978 NYB]

I'm a 20 year Army combat veteran. I served my entire adult life as an Armored Calvary and Heavy Artillery Warfighter. I, as others here, agree with free speech but draw the line when it comes to disrespecting the American flag or the National Anthem. I have served with thousands of Warfighters throughout my military career and they all feel the same way I do about respecting the American flag and the National Anthem. I can understand that if you never served in the military and defended the American flag under intense enemy fire and survived.....several of my Warfighter brothers did not. You can visit them in Section 60 in Arlington National Cemetary. You can visit them anytime you want and take a knee in front of their headstones. I hope you can understand the bond that I share with my Warfighter brothers and the respect we have for the American flag and the National Anthem. Is it too much to ask to stand up and shut the **** up for 2 minutes?

 

[zombiedog]

Guess I'm surprised. I thought this thread mighta come apart by now. It still might -- but even though its clear people have diverse views, the largely respectful way we've handled it so far is refreshing.

So true. I think there have been hotter arguments about guys choosing paint colors and wheels on here than this thread itself.

 

[amazinblue82]

So true. I think there have been hotter arguments about guys choosing paint colors and wheels on here than this thread itself.

We do a pretty good job at self-policing here. The folks who own the site have rules and sometimes the posts cross a line and they gotta deal with it.

Politics, religion, race, gender, etc tend to ignite strong views .. but as long as we "dont make it personal" (name calling, threatening each other with violence, using slurs, etc) threads have a way of staying on track,

The more combustible the topic tho, there greater the likelihood it could blowup .. and get "personal". I thought THIS anthem topic might do that .. but it didnt .. which is really cool to me and tribute to all the participants so far.

Later today or tomorrow, yeah, might be a knockdown, dragout, smackdown, dustup over paint colors, option availability by year, what;s the best timing light to use, ATC II, selling prices of C's, or any one of a number of car-related issues.

That's what makes it fun

 

[Carmine]

So true. I think there have been hotter arguments about guys choosing paint colors and wheels on here than this thread itself.

I'll give you a clue... nobody cares. Producers have moved on. Silently.

When people have a choice on how to spend their money and time, they simply do it. In other words, they vote with their wallets.

The MSM can hue and cry all they want, but they can't force people to buy tickets or watch the games. They're walking away. Detroit didn't become a ghost town because all the money evaporated (contrary to what the media preaches). The city began catering to unproductive, lazy, sometimes corrupt people; hiring them, electing them, in fact, lol. Producers left. Took their ball and went elsewhere. Eventually it collapsed.

NFL revenues and ratings are down. As it becomes less relevant, the people who only buy tickets to "network" will disappear. Good. The discretionary spending will go elsewhere.

Personally, I find the actions of players who refuse to stand disgusting. But they certainly have the right to do it. I'm glad they're revealing themselves. Hopefully the fans of this Roman circus will devote the additional time and money to political involvement.

Same thing with statues. All just part of a larger narrative by a "machine/cabal/establishment" desperate to retain power. I love watching it malfunction.

 

[MoPar Maniac]

Take a knee during the Anthem-good.
Wearing a tribute to those who died on 9/11-bad.
The teams and the nfl are afraid tonhurt the feelings of the widdle snowflakes and to Hades with anyone else.