MarkLevi
Member
Maddening, isn't it! On your tag, "N8"? Still have a copy of your broadcast? (I presume this is the car you sold a few months back)
Fender tag
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69CoronetRT
Senior Member
What was coded, when it was coded and even where it was coded on the tag changes year to year, plant to plant and even within the model year.
Sooo.....we may gain some tag coding philosophy knowledge from prior years but its difficult to compare a '67 Jefferson plant (Chrysler/Imperial) car to a '68 C body Dodge (Belvedere plant?). Two different years, two different makes, two different plants.
We'll need to look at only 67 Jefferson tags for guidance.
It's Thursday. I'm off to the bar for brisket, beer and live tunes.
I'll look at the BS in detail later.
MarkLevi
Member
Your evening sound much more interesting than mine
Have fun.
Never found a sheet for the car, found one for a white car with green interior instead.
I don't remember which 8 was what.
MarkLevi
Member
I do have a reference to "N8" for rear defog - I don't have anything for "J8". The rest of your tag, I've got. Too bad no broadcast :-(
Thanks
Mark
Thanks
Mark
69CoronetRT
Senior Member
My opinion..... after looking at various 67 broadcast sheets and fender tags....
Code e/8 could mean rear defroster as we have to account for two possible 41* codes on one car. We have to account for the possibility of a/c 411 and rear defroster 418 OR rear defroster wasn't coded and we are wrong about the whole thing. Coding e/8 makes sense as well as e/7 but what's difficult for me to resolve is why PK 'cop cars' code e/3 (i.e 413 a/c with auto temp) but do not code S/1 for a/c. On would think if these cars had any kind of primary air conditioning service, it would code under S and not under e.
Your thoughts?
Code e/8 could mean rear defroster as we have to account for two possible 41* codes on one car. We have to account for the possibility of a/c 411 and rear defroster 418 OR rear defroster wasn't coded and we are wrong about the whole thing. Coding e/8 makes sense as well as e/7 but what's difficult for me to resolve is why PK 'cop cars' code e/3 (i.e 413 a/c with auto temp) but do not code S/1 for a/c. On would think if these cars had any kind of primary air conditioning service, it would code under S and not under e.
Your thoughts?
MarkLevi
Member
On this particular vehicle, I think the e8 has to reference 418 as it is the only "8" on the broadcast that would/could code to the tag?
As far as your other thought - My presumption would be that, if all "K" police packages include A/C, then there would be no need to code the AC separately - in any position....but then I see GTX's that unnecessarily code "b4" for bucket seats, which would be counter to such a 'rule'...so right back to square one. No idea why that code would wind up in "e" (I would expect "S3", also) if there wasn't something else already occupying "S" position.
I have to believe that there was some sort of instruction/guideline handed down from corporate - the lion's share of tag info is pretty consistent across all platforms and locations - '69 and later Lynch Road not withstanding. But that is yet another "document" that I, personally, have never found even a hint of. The quest for understanding continues...
M
As far as your other thought - My presumption would be that, if all "K" police packages include A/C, then there would be no need to code the AC separately - in any position....but then I see GTX's that unnecessarily code "b4" for bucket seats, which would be counter to such a 'rule'...so right back to square one. No idea why that code would wind up in "e" (I would expect "S3", also) if there wasn't something else already occupying "S" position.
I have to believe that there was some sort of instruction/guideline handed down from corporate - the lion's share of tag info is pretty consistent across all platforms and locations - '69 and later Lynch Road not withstanding. But that is yet another "document" that I, personally, have never found even a hint of. The quest for understanding continues...
M
MarkLevi
Member
@69CoronetRT Here's another 'odd duck': I was going through @GOLDMYN 's broadcast from the "Fender tag lovers..." thread: Tag has a 5 where it would typically indicate Rear arm rests w/ ash trays. But on the broadcast, the only "5" that might code to a tag is in Lights - for the ash tray. (r. arm rest code isn't even on broadcast). Do you think that maybe some of these anomalies being discussed are simply errors by the tag stamper, and nothing really beyond that? Goldmyn - does your car have ash trays in the rear arm rests?
Note: the superimposed tag is not covering any relevant info in the broadcast.
Thanks
Mark
Note: the superimposed tag is not covering any relevant info in the broadcast.
Thanks
Mark
As @69CoronetRT will tell you, online decoders are full of errors. I've talked with him about this same thing, why I have a 65 vs 64 for my buckets and console.
69CoronetRT
Senior Member
No. Are you beginning your supposition begins with the erroneous, yet common because of repetition of bad info in online decoders, info that arm rests are coded in this slot? Set that aside. That's one of the flaws in online decoders or printed materials. Wrong info gets published and repeated. Given tag coding philosophy, why would arm rests be coded on a tag? They have nothing to do with assembly of the body in white, holes to be pushed in the body, paint or trim. Plus arm rests would be optional on the lowest level term cars, not a CH trim level.
Humans made tags meaning errors exist but not in this case. Code b/5 is not uncommon on a 68 Jefferson tag. I'd suggest you explore the correlation of b/4 and b/5 with *6* interiors. What might these codes tell us about items that can come with bucket seats that aren't present with bench seats?
GOLDMYN
Senior Member
Yes, ash trays in rear
GOLDMYN
Senior Member
Here's pix of my ex-white 68 NewYorker with same options
GOLDMYN
Senior Member
better pix of broadcast sheet for white new yorker?
MarkLevi
Member
Indeed 455 would be power buckets L&R, but looking at the broadcast, that's not what's coded - it appears it is 454 left power that is on the sheet. (the *6*/564 bucket codes jibe) Certainly 485 would have been buddy seat, but the 486 console code is already in that slot on the sheet. 485 would be a center arm rest, but I believe that would be for a *2*, or *5* (I believe) interior.
No need to be cryptic - what do say it is?
Yes, I sometimes operate under the presumption that "b" has a tendency to be 'rear seat accessories' - attempting to apply some manner of 'engineering intent' where maybe there was none. But I have to believe these definitions and procedures were created by engineering and, us engineering types are simply wired for "order" for stuff like this. That's why I find this so maddening, challenging and alluring all at the same time. OCD I guess.
69CoronetRT
Senior Member
Your OCD will be a boon and bane in this hobby (DAMHIK).
I know people that have spent days, month, years chasing rabbits down holes to try and determine what minutae was done, how it was done and when it was done only to find out in the end they learned a lot and nothing at the same time. The longer you are in the hobby and do your own research, you'll find out how much erroneous or out of context info is out there, often taken as gospel, and how little you actually know (again..DAMHIK).
MarkLevi
Member
LOL - I won't...I can pretty much figure how you know! But to that point, I'm not looking to reinvent any wheel - I'm just looking to learn more. Always. If you (or anyone else, for that matter) have info relevant to this item (or any others), then I would like to learn it too. Please tell me what you feel b5 is in this instance - I don't care if it's 'opinion' or "fact" - it's simply additional information for consideration. I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks
Mark
69CoronetRT
Senior Member
My main area of interest and research is 69 B bodies but through exposure, I dabble in other years, bodies, tags and documentation.
I've not done a deep dive into 68 Jefferson coding specifically but I do know that b/5 is unrelated to arm rests. It does appear with bucket seat interiors. If the code referred to arm rests, one would expect to see it with all models and trim levels. Yet, we do not.
Code 565 rear arm rests appears on order sheets for low trim level cars like 68 Road Runner coupes or entry level Belvederes and Coronets. It is coded on the broadcast sheet and likely window stickers as it was an extra cost item but I'm not sure it was actually coded on a tag. (Given overall tag coding philosophy and the restricted layout of a 68 tag, I'm not sure even why it would be coded on a tag) My only possible example has a suspect fender tag so it's not credible evidence.
Rear arm rests were standard and not an option that could be ordered on a 68 Chrysler. Therefore, there's no real reason to code a minor standard interior item on a 68 Chrysler tag.
Much online decoding is in error or comes without context or qualifications as to applications. What was true about coding at the Hamtramck Plant may not be true for the Newark plant. What was true about coding A bodies may or may not apply to B and C bodies. It becomes very cumbersome trying to explain all of the nuances when it comes to coding so sources do not go into detail leaving out important information and offering only sweeping generalizations.
Trust but verify others work and sources. Even and especially mine ;)
MarkLevi
Member
OK - thanks. I feel like I'm becoming burdensome to you - if so, my apologies. I'll just chalk this particular item up as "don't know" for the time being - maybe to revisit at some future time.
Thanks
Mark
Thanks
Mark
69CoronetRT
Senior Member
I'm just looking to learn more. Always. If you (or anyone else, for that matter) have info relevant to this item (or any others), then I would like to learn it too. Please tell me what you feel b5 is in this instance - I don't care if it's 'opinion' or "fact" - it's simply additional information for consideration. I'd really appreciate it.
I was trying to do what you asked for; explain why in this instance b/5 didn't and couldn't decode as arm rests, the pitfalls of online decoders, describe the nuances of codes and convey tag coding and decoding philosophy. I'm sorry I failed to do so. My intent was to be helpful and encourage you to find your niche in decoding should you choose to do so. C body tags are under researched and need more people actively involved in finding out what happens with them.
MarkLevi
Member
No - You didn't fail on any of that - I 'm down with all that. I think we agree on what it can't be and why. What I'm looking for is what the heck it is. I just don't want to become a pest by asking the same question(s) repeated.
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