Ford Has Everything Already Thought Out for Us Collectors

[Big_John]

From Hagerty;

Ford’s $3900 Eluminator e-crate motor is already sold out
Intake: Well, that was fast. After making its debut under the hood of a sweet 1976 F-100 last week at SEMA, Ford’s Eluminator e-crate motor is already sold out, according to the automaker. “Demand has exceeded expectations,” says Emma Bergg, of Ford’s Electric Vehicle Communications team. If you missed the first wave of $3900, 281-hp motors, stay tuned—Bergg also said that although the units are now out of stock, interested customers should sign up to be notified when orders open once again.

Exhaust: For some, the idea of an electric crate motor is about as exhilarating as the dash to the grocery store for more milk. But to a large portion of the car community, the prospect of e-crate motors simply means that their favorite silhouettes and classics have the chance for a longer life. While we don’t know how many Eluminators were in stock when the project was announced, selling out in less than a week is a noteworthy achievement that shows the industry’s appetite for well-executed, accessible e-crate motors.

@ $3,900 I assume that is motor only. Is that correct? If so what does everything else cost in a turn-key kind of package?

I googled it and found this: Ford’s 281-HP Electric Crate Motor Costs $3,900 and You Can Buy One Now

Looks like that's motor only. I'd love to know the additional costs, but that's around what I would expect to pay for an entry level "carb to oil pan" crate motor.

 

[Mike66Chryslers]

Here's an independent company that was showing off EV retrofit kits at SEMA. The article says the cost to retrofit a car is around $60k USD, but should come down over time.
Canadian firm showcases EV conversions for gas-guzzling classic cars | Driving

Their kits are designed to be non-invasive unlike what was done to the Project-X Chevy. Possibly they're targeting some hobbyists who may be able to tackle the installation themselves? I think packaging the motor to look like a vintage V8 is gimmicky though. If I was going to convert a show-worthy car to EV, I'd want it to look like something from Star Trek under the hood!

 

[BigblueC]

I googled it and found this: Ford’s 281-HP Electric Crate Motor Costs $3,900 and You Can Buy One Now

Looks like that's motor only. I'd love to know the additional costs, but that's around what I would expect to pay for an entry level "carb to oil pan" crate motor.

From the article: "Speaking of which, these Eluminator crate offerings don't include a battery, or a traction inverter, or a control system. Those will be up to you to source, and navigating through that process will be a new test for future EV hot-rodders. It's certainly been done before, but it's not as simple as going to a junkyard and yanking a 351 Windsor from a salvage F-Series."

I'm guessing that getting one of these motors into a vehicle and up and running will get expensive quick, not to mention the headache of getting necessary stuff right now like computers.

Here's an independent company that was showing off EV retrofit kits at SEMA. The article says the cost to retrofit a car is around $60k USD, but should come down over time.
View attachment 496198

That's very expensive considering you still have to supply the vehicle and other parts of the drivetrain. I'll guess the Ford system will be near that ballpark by the time it's together and going.

 

[Big_John]

From the article: "Speaking of which, these Eluminator crate offerings don't include a battery, or a traction inverter, or a control system. Those will be up to you to source, and navigating through that process will be a new test for future EV hot-rodders. It's certainly been done before, but it's not as simple as going to a junkyard and yanking a 351 Windsor from a salvage F-Series."

I'm guessing that getting one of these motors into a vehicle and up and running will get expensive quick, not to mention the headache of getting necessary stuff right now like computers.



That's very expensive considering you still have to supply the vehicle and other parts of the drivetrain. I'll guess the Ford system will be near that ballpark by the time it's together and going.

I don't know if it would be that expensive once they adapt assembly line pieces into the kit. Electronics get cheap when you build in volume, so that might help.

$60K for custom built electronics, motor etc. is a lot of money, but a Mustang Mach E starts at about $43K, and a gas Mustang at $27K. It's probably better to not compare it to a base Mustang, so a base GT fastback is about $37K. So... $6k additional for the Mach E.

Looking at those figures, it would make sense to me to see a Factory "kit" offered at $20-$25K, maybe even less. I'll bet with a little junkyard smarts, you can salvage everything out of a wreck for half the price. I'm thinking that now we are talking about similar prices to sourcing higher end powertrains (like a Hellcat) but I've never really looked into that stuff either...

I also don't see the manufacturers making a lot of money on this either. I would bet it would be a "break even" deal where they are doing more promoting of the brand.

 

[SGT FURY]

I don't know if there's a law that says that a new EV vehicle has to be boring or dorky looking?
Instead of transplanting EV motors into original classics,maybe they should think more about making classic looking dedicated EVs.

 

[amazinblue82]

I don't know if there's a law that says that a new EV vehicle has to be boring or dorky looking?
Instead of transplanting EV motors into original classics,maybe they should think more about making classic looking dedicated EVs.

I am gonna go with SGT FURY on this, and add that EVEN if some of the parts (intakes, exhausts, etc) are decorative vs. functional, i'd still like the right "look".

I'll pile on one more (if something already said it here, my apologies for not giving credit):

If i could get "V8" sounds, without sounding like an electronic toy, that would be "tuneable" (big cam vs. not, 2 inch exhaust vs. 3 inch, roller rotating parts vs. not), that make my day.

maybe with ambient air rumbling through an exhaust system .. augmented with electric baffles/corriidors? no burned hydrocarbons at all .. just good sound.

The locomotion/whining of a "golf cart", on a classic car, without the right sound? That's stretches my personal "old skool" tolerance bands for EV retrofits.

 

[3175375]

I don't know if it would be that expensive once they adapt assembly line pieces into the kit. Electronics get cheap when you build in volume, so that might help.

$60K for custom built electronics, motor etc. is a lot of money, but a Mustang Mach E starts at about $43K, and a gas Mustang at $27K. It's probably better to not compare it to a base Mustang, so a base GT fastback is about $37K. So... $6k additional for the Mach E.

Looking at those figures, it would make sense to me to see a Factory "kit" offered at $20-$25K, maybe even less. I'll bet with a little junkyard smarts, you can salvage everything out of a wreck for half the price. I'm thinking that now we are talking about similar prices to sourcing higher end powertrains (like a Hellcat) but I've never really looked into that stuff either...

I also don't see the manufacturers making a lot of money on this either. I would bet it would be a "break even" deal where they are doing more promoting of the brand.

The additional cost of a replacement battery pack needs to be factored into the buy equation. It’s a non-trivial addition.
Additionally, some EV tires are very specific and I bet they aren’t less costly.
I understand that during the maturity of a ‘new’ technology, there are additional costs, but I believe that many people are not thinking about that and the manufacturers don’t appear to be laying it all out so one can see what they are getting into.

 

[300rag]

 

[saforwardlook]

Once again, another surprise from the EV world, this time with Lucid Air. Maybe it will give Tim Kuniskis something else to consider when designing the next version of the hybrid Hellcat, i.e. which will be more expensive and which will have the better overall performance and handling?

@ 7:45 in the video from Autoline again:

 

[Big_John]

This hit my email this AM. I thought it interesting.

Henry Ford’s Electric Model T

 

[Mike66Chryslers]

This hit my email this AM. I thought it interesting.

Henry Ford’s Electric Model T

I never knew about this (or more likely I may have seen something about it years ago but forgot, lol). Very interesting to think what may have happened if Henry Ford had been ok with the substitution of lead-acid batteries to keep the project moving forwards to a production automobile.

 

[BigblueC]

This hit my email this AM. I thought it interesting.

Henry Ford’s Electric Model T

I had heard/read about Ford's electric vehicles but had no idea how far they actually went ($1.5 million in 1914 according to that article). I had been under the impression it was more of a side project/fun toy kind of thing for Ford.

What I took from that article is that even less has changed with EVs than I had previously thought. According to that article even in 1914 they were significantly more expensive that a comparable ICE vehicle.

"Edison’s nickel-iron battery was a $600 factory option on the Detroit Electric, which had a base price of around $3100, and both the Ford and Edison cars were equipped with the extra-cost Edison batteries."

Online inflation calculators show that to be equivalent to $90,000 give or take a few thousand. For comparison the average 1914 T cost in the neighborhood of $750, equivalent to $20,000 today.

 

[Big_John]

I never knew about this (or more likely I may have seen something about it years ago but forgot, lol). Very interesting to think what may have happened if Henry Ford had been ok with the substitution of lead-acid batteries to keep the project moving forwards to a production automobile.

It would have been interesting to see where it went from there. I think it might have brought about some faster changes in technology as time went on. It might have failed too... Who knows? Ford was a genius at bringing the Model T to production and managed to hit the market at the right time. It's possible that Henry could have gotten a usable and affordable car on the market and things might be a lot different now.

Of course, I'm of the opinion that Ford (the company) was successful despite Henry's eccentricities and given to his own devices, Henry could have made it a tremendous success or a miserable failure, possibly taking Ford down with it.

 

[Mike66Chryslers]

I had heard/read about Ford's electric vehicles but had no idea how far they actually went ($1.5 million in 1914 according to that article). I had been under the impression it was more of a side project/fun toy kind of thing for Ford.

What I took from that article is that even less has changed with EVs than I had previously thought. According to that article even in 1914 they were significantly more expensive that a comparable ICE vehicle.

"Edison’s nickel-iron battery was a $600 factory option on the Detroit Electric, which had a base price of around $3100, and both the Ford and Edison cars were equipped with the extra-cost Edison batteries."

Online inflation calculators show that to be equivalent to $90,000 give or take a few thousand. For comparison the average 1914 T cost in the neighborhood of $750, equivalent to $20,000 today.

Apples and oranges comparison IMO. The Model-T was the product of Ford's relentless cost-cutting efforts to make automobiles a mass-produced commodity that most people could afford.

Detroit Electric was sold in comparatively miniscule numbers, 1000-2000 units per year at its peak. Ford produced many times that number of cars in a DAY. But it appears that they were trying to remain upscale, not mass-market. For example, I read that Detroit Electric was the first automotive use of curved glass, which was expensive to produce.

EDIT: I checked a bit of pricing and the Detroit Electric pricing was comparable to a Cadillac of the same time period. A better comparison IMO.

 

[BigblueC]

Apples and oranges comparison IMO

I'll agree with that. It seems like Leno had a Detroit Electric on his show and claimed it was a luxury car of the time.

EDIT: I checked a bit of pricing and the Detroit Electric pricing was comparable to a Cadillac of the same time period. A better comparison IMO.

So since you looked into it how much was a Cadillac in 1914?

 

[cantflip]

It would have been interesting to see where it went from there. I think it might have brought about some faster changes in technology as time went on. It might have failed too... Who knows? Ford was a genius at bringing the Model T to production and managed to hit the market at the right time. It's possible that Henry could have gotten a usable and affordable car on the market and things might be a lot different now.

Of course, I'm of the opinion that Ford (the company) was successful despite Henry's eccentricities and given to his own devices, Henry could have made it a tremendous success or a miserable failure, possibly taking Ford down with it.

I'm pretty sure Ford went off the reservation bout the time he had a solid company to allow his behavior... I'd be a freaking loon too if I had enough Fkit money and no longer felt inclined to be employable. Ford used his POWER, the only word I can give it, to beat the crap out of those outside companies who supported his operation. If he hadn't been so successful for so long, he would have actual tanked the company vs coming close with his stubbornness and lunacy.

Genius yes, but very lucky too... amazing how few seem to know that his biggest genius was in going "public" while assuring his heirs maintained control so long as they didn't get too stupid.

 

[cantflip]

An electric popular car may have worked in the city, but still would have struggled after the electric starter... a cheap one may have at least survived... but I'm doubtful. It just didn't have much to compete with the convenience of gasoline.

 

[BigblueC]

EDIT: I checked a bit of pricing and the Detroit Electric pricing was comparable to a Cadillac of the same time period. A better comparison IMO.

I did a quick look out of curiosity and found that 1914 Cadillac started at $1,400 (Mod 30, what ever that is) and didn't approach $3,000 until you bought the custom bodied limousine. Prices didn't cross $3K until you purchased a custom service vehicle like an ambulance/firetruck/hearse. Assuming the average Cad was most comparable to the Detroit Electric, and assuming the avg Cad cost the median of the price range at $2,200, that's significantly less that the comparable median Detroit Electric price of $3,400. So apples-to-apples, EVs cost significantly more than a comparable ICE vehicle then and now. I find that interesting.

 

[cantflip]

I did a quick look out of curiosity and found that 1914 Cadillac started at $1,400 (Mod 30, what ever that is) and didn't approach $3,000 until you bought the custom bodied limousine. Prices didn't cross $3K until you purchased a custom service vehicle like an ambulance/firetruck/hearse. Assuming the average Cad was most comparable to the Detroit Electric, and assuming the avg Cad cost the median of the price range at $2,200, that's significantly less that the comparable median Detroit Electric price of $3,400. So apples-to-apples, EVs cost significantly more than a comparable ICE vehicle then and now. I find that interesting.

You have to think about the clientele... horse and buggy transportation was still relevant and the well healed, society types who would be driving something over the top ridiculous expensive today (vs being driven in a limo) back then would have gravitated to these cars for the same reason they'd have cut an overly flatulent horse from their team. Crank starting wasn't dignified, ICE engines smelled bad, exposure to the elements didn't seem to be a positive (never saw a pic of and open Detroit Electric). From an operator standpoint, no refueling (I bet they had people to worry about plugging he thing in), no start up drama (in a day when the driver controlled timing and mixture) and no warm up time required...

Make no mistake, there was a group who found those to be the height of luxury motoring, at least when in town... and those same folks had the means to have a chauffeur driven big car for anything out of the range of the electric.

 

[Mike66Chryslers]

I did a quick look out of curiosity and found that 1914 Cadillac started at $1,400 (Mod 30, what ever that is) and didn't approach $3,000 until you bought the custom bodied limousine. Prices didn't cross $3K until you purchased a custom service vehicle like an ambulance/firetruck/hearse. Assuming the average Cad was most comparable to the Detroit Electric, and assuming the avg Cad cost the median of the price range at $2,200, that's significantly less that the comparable median Detroit Electric price of $3,400. So apples-to-apples, EVs cost significantly more than a comparable ICE vehicle then and now. I find that interesting.

Sorry, I had closed the search and didn't get back to this. The price of the Detroit Electric without the Edison battery upgrade was about the same as a Cadillac with custom coachwork from one of the more expensive companies.