Fuel injection advice.......

For the wasted spark installation is using a 36-1 trigger wheel on the crank. It is mounted on the damper but on the solid ring. I heat shrunk the ring on. The wasted spark for my install uses the ford edits module with the ecu controlling the timing. The coils are from a neon. Kinda plug and play.

With coil on plug, you will need cam an crank sensors as you indicated.

MegaSquirt is all user configurable which is good and bad.

If you need more information just ask.

Steve
 
Curious why the need for "wasted spark"? I was under the impression that that concept was driven by emissions controls more than anything else

How does the coil-on-plug set-up interact with a B/RB exhaust manifold and other underhood clearance items? Just curious. Perhaps this needs a specific thread?

Thanks,
CBODY67
 
Coil on plug you would still need to use plug wires
 
Pictures??

I'm thinking "coil-on-plug" (as GM LS and Gen III Hemi) has a trigger wire to fire the coil/plug. Coil "nose" physically snaps onto the plug itself.

Thanks,
CBODY67
 
I think coil on plug with our engines and exhaust manifolds would get ugly in a hurry plus you would need to get a cam position sensor installed some where. For me I don’t see the advantage of COP over waisted spark and COP is way more stuff to add and control (cam position, sequencer, 8 coils, and firing circuitry)

Ford used a nice waisted spark system that was all in one package. EDIS. Just needed to add the timing signal and that’s all.

The waisted spark/coil on plug is all about accurate control of the timing of the spark. You can only do so much with weights and springs and the mechanical system is sloppy. There is a video somewhere on the web that show both system in use.
 
I think coil on plug with our engines and exhaust manifolds would get ugly in a hurry plus you would need to get a cam position sensor installed some where. For me I don’t see the advantage of COP over waisted spark and COP is way more stuff to add and control (cam position, sequencer, 8 coils, and firing circuitry)

Ford used a nice waisted spark system that was all in one package. EDIS. Just needed to add the timing signal and that’s all.

The waisted spark/coil on plug is all about accurate control of the timing of the spark. You can only do so much with weights and springs and the mechanical system is sloppy. There is a video somewhere on the web that show both system in use.


Well the thought with COP is with an eye towards MPI. From what I've read from those that have done it on the 440, ignition was the biggest pain in the ***. The Jeep cam position sensor seems the most expedient route and i have the capabilities to machine the adapter. However that being the case, I'm looking to knock ignition out first.
 
Well the thought with COP is with an eye towards MPI. From what I've read from those that have done it on the 440, ignition was the biggest pain in the ***. The Jeep cam position sensor seems the most expedient route and i have the capabilities to machine the adapter. However that being the case, I'm looking to knock ignition out first.

Ignition is actually easy if you are doing sequential MPI as you know what need firing from the MPI. You are most of the way there

But if you are building and installing the system get it going and running well with fuel only then add ignition after ward other wise trouble shooting is brutal with two new systems.
 
He does Not have the car,,has never driven it, does not know anything for sure what he has and has no idea of mileage yet. He is dreaming at this point understandably but is dreaming. Let us wait and see.
agree 100 percent. but you forgot to mention he is wasting peoples time.
 
It's not wasting time to inquire about the possibility of doing this or that to your car, at least he now knows what to (or not) do when his car arrives, better than those who buy parts and jump in clueless, and plenty of those on car forums.

I wish him well with his new car.
 
It's not wasting time to inquire about the possibility of doing this or that to your car, at least he now knows what to (or not) do when his car arrives, better than those who buy parts and jump in clueless, and plenty of those on car forums.

I wish him well with his new car.

I agree totally but he may have other issues that are more pressing than miles per gallon when he receives this car that is totally unknown to him. He may have to replace the whole front end ,,who knows? As far a conversation ,yes fuel injection is a good topic. On the other side if you want mileage ,get a small Toyota as they are fuel injected. And very cheap. Also why would this guy buy a car that is known to have poor mileage and then worry about it later......as a daily driver? He maybe should have thought about that before he pressed the "Buy it Now" button. I wish him well also ......
 
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Many of us have "what if?" thoughts. Some new "trick of the week" from a car magazine or what somebody else they know has done to their car, which seemed to work well for them.

In these discussions, many things can be uncovered that the magazine article failed to really mention. Cost of the system is known, but ease of installation might not be. How to successfully program the system seems to be a big variable situation, from what I've seen. It's in THAT area that additional information might be needed!

Benefits are known, but how to get them can cost upwards of $3K or more by the time it's all done. Not counting YOUR time in working through some of these variable areas. Makes that possible 10% increase in fuel economy (provided you LEARN how to drive the car with the system for best fuel economy!!!!).

How to drive an EFI vehicle, compared to a carbureted vehicle? Get a late model vehicle with a trip computer on it that does "Instant Fuel Economy" and watch how widely the mpg figures change with throttle application and vehicle loading (think "uphill" vs. "downhill" road sections). Coasting up to a stop sign, when possible, rather than "driving up to it", for example. Brisk acceleration is more economical than slower acceleration, too. LOTS of little things you do can have a significant affect upon ultimate fuel economy, by observation.

Using an "Average Fuel Economy" reading can help too, as many newer vehicles have both "Instant" and "Average" computations. Whether or not you believe the computer, you can watch the figures to see how your driving style will impact fuel economy with EFI or any kind.

ENJOY!
CBODY67
 
The modern equivalent to this?

s-l1600.jpg

Or this?

1966-69-MoPar-PERFORMANCE-INDICATOR-CONSOLE-TOP-Vacuum.jpg


I added one in my Fury for kicks.

20190614_122217 (1).jpg
 
Installed aFitech 30002 this year on my 440. Had an Edelbrock 750cfm carb before that. Was never able to stomp the gas an squeal the tires. Now with 275's on back I can get a very noticable chirp when flooring it from a stop. Car starts a lot easier, turn the key on, wait until the pump quiets down and hit start. No need to pump the gas pedal. The 30002 is a bit more expensive but fitech had a $100 rebate when buying it as a complete kit. They do sell a much lower cost 400HP version without timing control. It takes a different distributor to use the timing control, I haven't completed that yet. It runs very well without it. I do think you need to have your engine running well before doing this. Timing chain must be in good condition, good valves, and a stable cooling system. Or you will have headaches. I wound up installing a 3/8 steel line for the feed and return line instead of the rubber hose approach. Seemed more reliable to me but a lot more work. The kit was around $1025 with the rebate. I do recommend EFI. Emissions are a lot lower, an improvement in mileage but I haven't driven that much yet to know how much. You can adjust the air/fuel ratio to really squeeze fuel efficiency out of it. However it is not recommended to go much above 14.7:1, increases NOx emissions. (can you say SMOG?) A decent setup is close to that at idle/cruise. and around 12.5 or less when accelerating. You will spend time playing with the settings. Lot of youtube videos and a forum online to get you going.
Installation, I believe all setups require a return line out of the throttle body. Some models offer a small tank with the high pressure pump that mounts near the engine eliminating the line back to the tank. Some say it doesn't work that well. I don't know, I installed the return line. It isn't easy installing the line, car on jack stands and a creeper/tubing bender, etc. Another issue is the line comes in a coil so a tubing straightener is needed (around $80, can sell it later). One hint I can give is use a coat hanger to determine the shape of the line from the tank. Lot easier to bend it into shape and transfer the bends to the line later. This is a high pressure fuel situation, I used 6an & 8an fittings for safety reasons, high pressure hose clamps only. Use flexible lines going to the throttle body. Look for leaks immediately after turning on the power before starting the engine. I am very happy with it.
 
Now with 275's on back I can get a very noticable chirp when flooring it from a stop.

With a 440? What rear ratio do you have? I have a low compression 440 iron head that was rebuilt in 1983 with a 3.23 rear BUT it is an open diff that will roast the right rear tire no problem and chirp second. I run 275/60/15's BFG's on the back. My carb is a 600 cfm Edelbrock 1406. Do you have a sure grip?
 
With a 440? What rear ratio do you have? I have a low compression 440 iron head that was rebuilt in 1983 with a 3.23 rear BUT it is an open diff that will roast the right rear tire no problem and chirp second. I run 275/60/15's BFG's on the back. My carb is a 600 cfm Edelbrock 1406. Do you have a sure grip?

A /6 will roast BFG's...

Kevin
 
Installed aFitech 30002 this year on my 440. Had an Edelbrock 750cfm carb before that. Was never able to stomp the gas an squeal the tires. Now with 275's on back I can get a very noticable chirp when flooring it from a stop. Car starts a lot easier, turn the key on, wait until the pump quiets down and hit start. No need to pump the gas pedal. The 30002 is a bit more expensive but fitech had a $100 rebate when buying it as a complete kit. They do sell a much lower cost 400HP version without timing control. It takes a different distributor to use the timing control, I haven't completed that yet. It runs very well without it. I do think you need to have your engine running well before doing this. Timing chain must be in good condition, good valves, and a stable cooling system. Or you will have headaches. I wound up installing a 3/8 steel line for the feed and return line instead of the rubber hose approach. Seemed more reliable to me but a lot more work. The kit was around $1025 with the rebate. I do recommend EFI. Emissions are a lot lower, an improvement in mileage but I haven't driven that much yet to know how much. You can adjust the air/fuel ratio to really squeeze fuel efficiency out of it. However it is not recommended to go much above 14.7:1, increases NOx emissions. (can you say SMOG?) A decent setup is close to that at idle/cruise. and around 12.5 or less when accelerating. You will spend time playing with the settings. Lot of youtube videos and a forum online to get you going.
Installation, I believe all setups require a return line out of the throttle body. Some models offer a small tank with the high pressure pump that mounts near the engine eliminating the line back to the tank. Some say it doesn't work that well. I don't know, I installed the return line. It isn't easy installing the line, car on jack stands and a creeper/tubing bender, etc. Another issue is the line comes in a coil so a tubing straightener is needed (around $80, can sell it later). One hint I can give is use a coat hanger to determine the shape of the line from the tank. Lot easier to bend it into shape and transfer the bends to the line later. This is a high pressure fuel situation, I used 6an & 8an fittings for safety reasons, high pressure hose clamps only. Use flexible lines going to the throttle body. Look for leaks immediately after turning on the power before starting the engine. I am very happy with it.

Thanks for the comments. I would expect that emissions would be a bit lower, as the fuel metering can be more accurate, but as some perceive that "rich" makes more power and set the system to run that way at cruise, the improvement in emissions can be variable.

Driveability should be better in all temperatures, if the adjustments are "right". The comment I'm wondering about is the need to let the pump "power up" before starting the car. I know that friends, in the past, who put electric pumps on their carb'd cars always did that, let the pump quieten down before starting the car, as a matter of course, did that. But OEM systems don't need that, so does the aftermarket system bleed-back when the engine is turned off, rather than keeping enough pressure in the system so that it pressurizes immediately when the key is turned on?

The remote reservoir/supply pump is a recent innovation. IF you have the underhood room for it. Can take some of the plumbing issues out of the mix, it seems. The return-less EFI systems run the fuel pump differently, modulating the pump to the engine's needs, as I understand it. An upgrade which came from the OEM situation? Yet the supply/return fuel system might be the best deal. Possibilities that one of the fuel line vendors can bend up a line kit rather than doing it yourself? Return line included? Doing metal lines is the best long-term situation.

As time progresses, many of the additional things of installing EFI on an older vehicle have been made easier. The weld-in bung for the O2 sensor has been replaced by a clamp-on situation, I believe, which could take one additional situation out of the mix, to me. Finding a welder. Again, welding the bung into the exhaust pipe might be the best long-term solution?

Cost effectiveness does not really seem to be a part of the situation, though. So it can relate to what "price" you put on the other aspects of EFI on your vehicle for it to be worthwhile. Which can be variable, even if the installation goes well. But having a vehicle that will operate well for ALL who drive it can be intangible.

Enjoy!
CBODY67
 
I put a Holley Sniper on my 360 A-Body. Like night and day difference! Fantastic starting when cold, no more choke. In hot weather it always vapor locked, no more. Response is crisp and a lot more power. Yeah it was a job to do, but well worth it. And if you watch Jegs you can probably do it for about $1,200.00
 
My rear axle is a 3.23 sure-grip. That comment was the first time I drove it with the fitech. It was an obvious improvement over the edelbrock right out of the box. The rear tires are 275-45r18. I picked them so the speedo wouldn't change. Nearly same diameter as 225-75R15's. The fuel ratio is programmable at several points in the power band. Several items I've read on the net recommend around 14.7 at idle because it's the theoretical ideal. A couple sites mention going higher causes NOx emissions if you don't have a catalytic converter. Wide open throttle, etc is a bit of trial an error but can be done with the controller while driving. Pull over and stop first... Haven't tried it yet but having the computer control the spark also allows you to adjust timing from the driver's seat too. Since the fitech knows throttle position, manifold vacuum, etc it can change the ratio based on driving habits. Haven't driven it a lot yet, still working on getting the brakes to lock up when I stomp on the pedal. More important to be able to stop than set land speed records. You can also use a cell phone cable and connect it to a PC and get a lot more data/control out of the unit. I would like to put it on a dyno and adjust for peak performance when I get the time.
 
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