Harbor Freight Floor Jack

[saforwardlook]

1) I could easily answer no to the foreign-made appliance or TV.

2) It wasn't corporate America or even consumers. It was people of this ilk who slowly sold out America and the free world.

View attachment 392582

I don't know how you can possibly say that corporate America didn't sell out our labor force for overseas markets that provided them with their holy grail - cost savings?

Yeah, maybe government could have stepped in and stopped it along the way, but a lot of officials in the political realm also own stocks, and to see their dividends rise probably prevented any significant action as well.

So now that your man Donald has been in office for almost four years, has either he or his party (that control the Senate) enacted any legislation to slow down or prevent this giant sucking sound? Or much of any legislation at all.............................? I was at least hoping for some silver lining from his Presidency. But should he not be in his current office come 2020, what will actually have changed in the long run?
Not trying to be snide, but just wondering why there hasn't been more actual legislation passed and the hard work done so that when he is gone, things will not revert back to the past?

I actually have had Snap On tools for some time over my many years, and have not been all that impressed with the purchases I have made in the more recent past.

So I actually researched that Daytona Jack from Harbor Freight before buying another failed Snap On jack at high prices, and went with the Daytona in the end. After 3 years now, all I can say is that it is the best jack I have ever used. Very surprised actually.

 

[1970cat]

even chinese tools are sold by american companies with american workers. so most of the $$ still goes to americans. that's not including marketing,advertising, publishers, building leases, etc.

 

[Big_John]

I found this video interesting... "Made in America" isn't what you think it is sometimes.

The Craftsman Jack I bought in 1978 is still going strong, but I can't lift it into a trunk anymore, so if I had to do that, I'd buy one of those aluminum HF jacks in a heartbeat.

 

[68PK21 440.6bbl]

What US made aluminum jacks have been made that one should search for on the used market?

To be rebuilt

Here:
How NASCAR Cup Teams Can Help Build Your Racecar

Years ago I use to help a friend of mine with his booth here at the Daytona Turkey Run, he use too or maybe still does go to a race car auction up in Alabama to buy lots of old unwanted racer parts just to stock his booth and finance his race car. I haven't talked to him in years since he started to drive for the Petty Driving Experience and got a ARCA seat.
(edit)

Race Cars, Parts, Trailers & Engines for Sale | RacingJunk

(edit #2)
Bet'cha can get this one cheeep!

.

 

[tallhair]

View attachment 392696

Here:
How NASCAR Cup Teams Can Help Build Your Racecar

Years ago I use to help a friend of mine with his booth here at the Daytona Turkey Run, he use too or maybe still does go to a race car auction up in Alabama to buy lots of old unwanted racer parts just to stock his booth and finance his race car. I haven't talked to him in years since he started to drive for the Petty Driving Experience and got a ARCA seat.
(edit)

Race Cars, Parts, Trailers & Engines for Sale | RacingJunk

(edit #2)
Bet'cha can get this one cheeep!

View attachment 392698


.

I’ll see what I can turn up. Thanks

 

[CanCritter]

Would changing out the O rings n HF jacks to better made versions solve a lot of problems? Just asking

l wouldn't advise it...tolerences may be diffrent..may not hold up to oil ect ect….
in all honesty l don't trust any hydraulic jack as a basic safety precaution... l always use heavier sets of jackstands as backup....always......have been trapped under a car before..l learned 2 things from that experience....

 

[jct]

I have one of these, it doesn't roll at all when I'm lifting up my daily driver, and it falls off the frame and Into the floor board as I'm lifting up my car leaving a nice huge dent in my floor board, i literally have to stomp my floor back down into somewhat shape.

 

[78Brougham]

I didn't know Chewbacca was involved in this!

 

[Big_John]

.all that's holding that jack up is a little O ring made in china

Would changing out the O rings n HF jacks to better made versions solve a lot of problems? Just asking

I would be willing to wager that most O-rings of standard materials are already made in China or India.

That said, the hydraulic cylinder in a floor jack wouldn't have O rings as the primary seal. They would use a standard hydraulic seal that looks something like this:

Probably, most of those are China or India made too. Point being that even if you buy an American made jack, chances are the seals are made somewhere else.

 

[Carmine]

Well, I can see that meme kicked off an S-storm. And it's true, every President since at least Nixon should have been in that photo, but that one was already circulating.

For those of you who said "corporate" vs. "government", let me ask a simple question? How much trade did this country (or NATO nations) conduct with the Soviet Union during the cold war? It was limited to raw materials, natural gas-for-wheat, etc. At that time, (and now) many of the satellite nations had abundant cheap labor and they were eager to export. Canadians, remember LADA cars? I remember my grandfather had somehow come into possession of a Made in USSR watch, and it was an object of rare fascination.

Again, for those of you down on "the man" and his next-quarter outlook, it's not a defense of their actions, which were often terrible. But trade of manufactured goods with the Soviet Union was virtually non-existent because it was simply forbidden in our national interest. That's something the executive branch is entitled to do, through the Department of Commerce. Kennedy was probably the last president to do anything pro-US on trade when Germany imposed tariffs on processed US chicken, he created a tax on imported trucks (on the basis that VW was planning to introduce a truck in the US market; which never came to pass anyway). Since then, it's been the abandonment of one US industry after another.

One of the best synopsis of data that I've researched personally is hosted here.
Japan and the Big Squeeze

"One former U.S. trade negotiator recounts a fundamental government tenet of the late 1960s and early 1970s: "Our trade policy was to keep U.S. markets open and the Congress pacified." In large measure, this policy reflected the attitudes of Richard Nixon and his national security adviser, Henry Kissinger. Neither had much interest in trade matters, except when they impinged on foreign or defense policies.

But the repeated, deliberate delays in enforcing U.S. trade laws hopelessly undermined the strength of U.S. television companies. It also made them easy acquisition targets. In addition to the Motorola-Matsushita deal, Magnavox was purchased by N.V. Philips, a well-known Dutch firm. Warwick Electronics, until then one of America's largest private TV manufacturers, was purchased by Sanyo. In less than a year, three other U.S. television companies were either acquired or forced out of business."

I don't know how you can possibly say that corporate America didn't sell out our labor force for overseas markets that provided them with their holy grail - cost savings?

Yeah, maybe government could have stepped in and stopped it along the way, but a lot of officials in the political realm also own stocks, and to see their dividends rise probably prevented any significant action as well.

So now that your man Donald has been in office for almost four years, has either he or his party (that control the Senate) enacted any legislation to slow down or prevent this giant sucking sound? Or much of any legislation at all.............................?

Give a read to that piece I linked to and see what happens when US companies decide they don't need cost-savings in a highly competitive industry. They perish because the vast majority of the market/end-purchaser ALSO puts cost-savings ahead of anything else. The ONLY "organization" that can be expected to stand up to foreign mercantilism is the government, specifically the executive branch.

The fact that you bolded the word "legislation" did not go unnoticed. I know that much of what he's done has been through executive order. But I haven't seen a congress interested in much beyond undoing the 2016 election, have you? However, just to show the promises haven't been forgotten, here is a list.

Donald Trump achievements: Trade policy

 

[polara71]

Well, I can see that meme kicked off an S-storm. And it's true, every President since at least Nixon should have been in that photo, but that one was already circulating.

For those of you who said "corporate" vs. "government", let me ask a simple question? How much trade did this country (or NATO nations) conduct with the Soviet Union during the cold war? It was limited to raw materials, natural gas-for-wheat, etc. At that time, (and now) many of the satellite nations had abundant cheap labor and they were eager to export. Canadians, remember LADA cars? I remember my grandfather had somehow come into possession of a Made in USSR watch, and it was an object of rare fascination.

Again, for those of you down on "the man" and his next-quarter outlook, it's not a defense of their actions, which were often terrible. But trade of manufactured goods with the Soviet Union was virtually non-existent because it was simply forbidden in our national interest. That's something the executive branch is entitled to do, through the Department of Commerce. Kennedy was probably the last president to do anything pro-US on trade when Germany imposed tariffs on processed US chicken, he created a tax on imported trucks (on the basis that VW was planning to introduce a truck in the US market; which never came to pass anyway). Since then, it's been the abandonment of one US industry after another.

One of the best synopsis of data that I've researched personally is hosted here.
Japan and the Big Squeeze

"One former U.S. trade negotiator recounts a fundamental government tenet of the late 1960s and early 1970s: "Our trade policy was to keep U.S. markets open and the Congress pacified." In large measure, this policy reflected the attitudes of Richard Nixon and his national security adviser, Henry Kissinger. Neither had much interest in trade matters, except when they impinged on foreign or defense policies.

But the repeated, deliberate delays in enforcing U.S. trade laws hopelessly undermined the strength of U.S. television companies. It also made them easy acquisition targets. In addition to the Motorola-Matsushita deal, Magnavox was purchased by N.V. Philips, a well-known Dutch firm. Warwick Electronics, until then one of America's largest private TV manufacturers, was purchased by Sanyo. In less than a year, three other U.S. television companies were either acquired or forced out of business."



Give a read to that piece I linked to and see what happens when US companies decide they don't need cost-savings in a highly competitive industry. They perish because the vast majority of the market/end-purchaser ALSO puts cost-savings ahead of anything else. The ONLY "organization" that can be expected to stand up to foreign mercantilism is the government, specifically the executive branch.

The fact that you bolded the word "legislation" did not go unnoticed. I know that much of what he's done has been through executive order. But I haven't seen a congress interested in much beyond undoing the 2016 election, have you? However, just to show the promises haven't been forgotten, here is a list.

Donald Trump achievements: Trade policy

I always thoroughly read your posts Carmine. You articulate much better than I with a calm, cool demeanor.....
Thanks!


AND what a list that is!
Fred nailed it with his TDS brainwashing verbiage " Orange man bad" . They have nothing else except denial.

 

[cantflip]

Anyone ever buy one of these or similar? I need one to keep at a condo and the aluminum / light weight is a plus. Just been leary of some things Harbor Freight sells.View attachment 391847

Buy it, test it in the parking lot, stick it in the trunk and forget it... expect to be tossing it in a dumpster someday.

I would not buy aluminum for anything but road use, but I am also not interested in a big steel jack. I have a number of the small garbage steel jacks I've kept in vehicles, and I've gotten to throw a few away. Even the best jack can let you down and all are only meant for hard, level surfaces.

Would changing out the O rings n HF jacks to better made versions solve a lot of problems? Just asking

Nope, gold plating a turd...

What US made aluminum jacks have been made that one should search for on the used market?

To be rebuilt

Don't bother with rebuilding anything except top quality old jacks... IDK who builds them for SnapOn anymore, but lots of times rebuilds fail due to a pitting... I don't recall ever seeing a replacement cylinder for a floor jack.

remember....all that's holding that jack up is a little O ring made in china....Jackstands are your friends.....

Yes to stands... but I admit, I wouldn't pack them for a road trip. I'm in the habit of placing the spare tire under the frame while jacking... and would be screwed if it managed to let go during the exchange with the flat.

 

[saforwardlook]

Well, I can see that meme kicked off an S-storm. And it's true, every President since at least Nixon should have been in that photo, but that one was already circulating.

For those of you who said "corporate" vs. "government", let me ask a simple question? How much trade did this country (or NATO nations) conduct with the Soviet Union during the cold war? It was limited to raw materials, natural gas-for-wheat, etc. At that time, (and now) many of the satellite nations had abundant cheap labor and they were eager to export. Canadians, remember LADA cars? I remember my grandfather had somehow come into possession of a Made in USSR watch, and it was an object of rare fascination.

Again, for those of you down on "the man" and his next-quarter outlook, it's not a defense of their actions, which were often terrible. But trade of manufactured goods with the Soviet Union was virtually non-existent because it was simply forbidden in our national interest. That's something the executive branch is entitled to do, through the Department of Commerce. Kennedy was probably the last president to do anything pro-US on trade when Germany imposed tariffs on processed US chicken, he created a tax on imported trucks (on the basis that VW was planning to introduce a truck in the US market; which never came to pass anyway). Since then, it's been the abandonment of one US industry after another.

One of the best synopsis of data that I've researched personally is hosted here.
Japan and the Big Squeeze

"One former U.S. trade negotiator recounts a fundamental government tenet of the late 1960s and early 1970s: "Our trade policy was to keep U.S. markets open and the Congress pacified." In large measure, this policy reflected the attitudes of Richard Nixon and his national security adviser, Henry Kissinger. Neither had much interest in trade matters, except when they impinged on foreign or defense policies.

But the repeated, deliberate delays in enforcing U.S. trade laws hopelessly undermined the strength of U.S. television companies. It also made them easy acquisition targets. In addition to the Motorola-Matsushita deal, Magnavox was purchased by N.V. Philips, a well-known Dutch firm. Warwick Electronics, until then one of America's largest private TV manufacturers, was purchased by Sanyo. In less than a year, three other U.S. television companies were either acquired or forced out of business."



Give a read to that piece I linked to and see what happens when US companies decide they don't need cost-savings in a highly competitive industry. They perish because the vast majority of the market/end-purchaser ALSO puts cost-savings ahead of anything else. The ONLY "organization" that can be expected to stand up to foreign mercantilism is the government, specifically the executive branch.

The fact that you bolded the word "legislation" did not go unnoticed. I know that much of what he's done has been through executive order. But I haven't seen a congress interested in much beyond undoing the 2016 election, have you? However, just to show the promises haven't been forgotten, here is a list.

Donald Trump achievements: Trade policy

Mitch McConnel has more than 500 bills sitting on his desk at present that the House worked on but he said he wouldn't move on any of them until the President told him to. Legislation means compromise generally, and our President doesn't like doing that. So if he isn't in office in 2020, then the next President can issue his own executive orders and mute whatever Trump decreed by EO. Same goes with no legislative action on immigration and so on. Like I said, nothing lasting from this administration then. It is just an observation. Same with building the wall - will it ever happen if he isn't in office?

Real government means a lot of hard work and back and forth compromise, but it never happened.........................................

You list of accomplishments is certainly long, but only serves to obfuscate the reality that is present.

South Korea and Japan (though the latter constrains this more than the others) and other countries producing automobiles also outsource because as you say, they all have to seek cost savings - I never said otherwise. The reality before us is that simple production jobs probably will not come back to the U.S. because of that reality. The only hope going forward is to get a higher education (if you can afford it these days) or develop a trade that is needed. Otherwise, one's future is grim. And the days of thriving small farmers is gone and big Agra has overtaken them.

 

[Carmine]

Mitch McConnel has more than 500 bills sitting on his desk at present that the House worked on but he said he wouldn't move on any of them until the President told him to. Legislation means compromise generally, and our President doesn't like doing that. So if he isn't in office in 2020, then the next President can issue his own executive orders and mute whatever Trump decreed by EO. Same goes with no legislative action on immigration and so on. Like I said, nothing lasting from this administration then. It is just an observation. Same with building the wall - will it ever happen if he isn't in office?

Real government means a lot of hard work and back and forth compromise, but it never happened.........................................

You list of accomplishments is certainly long, but only serves to obfuscate the reality that is present.

South Korea and Japan (though the latter constrains this more than the others) and other countries producing automobiles also outsource because as you say, they all have to seek cost savings - I never said otherwise. The reality before us is that simple production jobs probably will not come back to the U.S. because of that reality. The only hope going forward is to get a higher education (if you can afford it these days) or develop a trade that is needed. Otherwise, one's future is grim. And the days of thriving small farmers is gone and big Agra has overtaken them.

You know as well as I do that most of what has passed the house has done so with zero Republican support, will never pass the Senate, and most certainly will never be signed by the President. Thus they are ceremonial talking points.

HR:1 Automatic and Online Voter Registration
HR:6 Citizenship for Children brought in illegally (fund the wall and get this one)
HR:7 Mandate that employers defend pay rate differences between employees
HR:8 Expanded gun background checks
HR:9 Rejoin the Paris Climate Deal

etc.

And let's not forget that when Harry Reid (D) controlled the Senate, they did the same thing with all the proposals to defund/repeal Obamacare mandates or other Republican talking points. Nothing new under the sun.

I will take issue with your idea of "higher education" being the only path for success, and even give you the benefit of the doubt that you were including careers like plumber or electrician, neither of which require the advanced levels of indoctrination for a 4-year degree.

This is a nation of 320 million people. Once you get beyond a certain size, we require X amount of decent paying jobs even at a relatively low skill set. Other near-superpowers seem to realize that, and protect their industries accordingly. Right now we have huge dropout rates in major population centers and your focus is on higher education? Which I assume would be tax-payer funded and free? Will this beyond-high-school experience be compulsory? BTW, there already is a path to free college... Join the military. Another path would be to get an entry-level, manual labor union job at an auto company and use their Tuition Assistance Program to fund your degree. And I'm sure there are equivalents elsewhere. In fact, I know of scholarships that go unused every year.

But let's say the free college thing gets off the ground, human nature and background aren't issues, and everybody gets their 4-year degree. What happens then? The meaning of said degree (which is really about work ethic) is diluted and the cream still rises to the top, perhaps getting Master's degrees now.

If were were a much smaller nation that did little more than process data, your education solution might have merit. The scale of people who either didn't have the genetic smarts or didn't have the upbringing to drag their *** out of bed and get to class (much like a job) would be small enough they could be absorbed by some benevolent welfare system. But what if it were 1/3 of your population?

And by the way, I don't subscribe to the notion that every non-college person either lacks intelligence or work ethic. When Chrysler went in the toilet circa 2009, I was temporarily forced back into the "blue collar" ranks after 16 years of salaried employment. I met people who worked in a factory because they spent their downtime pastoring a church in some otherwise horrible Detroit neighborhood, or using their vacation weeks to mentor kids in another state. If they had a job that they "took home", none of that would be possible. If they made half as much money, forget about helping others. It's funny how I never hear this as a talking point, even among Democrats who're always preaching their concern for the workin' man, single mom, or transgendered carbon-units.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

I can't disagree with Carmine, but would add that it still lies with Corporate America the companies that are blamed for going out of business because of cheap offshore products is not necessarily the case. Those companies did not know their consumer. They just forced the same old crap down everyone's throat. Then the Japanese come along and since their manufacturing is 1950s up and no market research in USA they take the advise of marketing firms and they build products with features you did not know you needed. Now the Chinese do the same, who knew I needed a aluminum jack? Now I do, do I take it anywhere, no. I use a old Plymouth Horizon jack Jack in one car, and a Honda Jack in the other.
Trump increased the tariffs on steel, USS is still dropping in market share, still losing money. Why? They contract out most everything except production, and a little bit of maintenance. So you can't say it is fat union contracts. No, it's corporate greed, plain and simple. The Jackass in charge even went as far as buying steel on the open market and reselling it, which he could not make work.
The free college thing is a bad idea for a couple of reasons.
1. If you ain't paying for it you will most likely make bad major decisions, art, history, language arts.
2. If free you energies will not be into it, and so your concentration/focus.
3. Paying for College is your introduction into getting things done. If you really want something you will figure out how to pay for it.
This pandemic has really shown the shortcomings in the education systems. The push in high school for college prep stuff gets you nowhere unless your sights are set on Ivy league. If you have that intense goal directionidirection the middle of your high school years, you are not a problem, watch out.
Too much emphasis on good grades, get into a good college.
Good grades in what? Fart counting? The school district I'm in dropped the ball on the vo tech students like it was on fire. It is being straightened out for the upcoming year, sadly that is time my son and the others lost they will never get back, and are now behind the 8 ball

 

[saforwardlook]

You know as well as I do that most of what has passed the house has done so with zero Republican support, will never pass the Senate, and most certainly will never be signed by the President. Thus they are ceremonial talking points.

HR:1 Automatic and Online Voter Registration
HR:6 Citizenship for Children brought in illegally (fund the wall and get this one)
HR:7 Mandate that employers defend pay rate differences between employees
HR:8 Expanded gun background checks
HR:9 Rejoin the Paris Climate Deal

etc.

And let's not forget that when Harry Reid (D) controlled the Senate, they did the same thing with all the proposals to defund/repeal Obamacare mandates or other Republican talking points. Nothing new under the sun.

I will take issue with your idea of "higher education" being the only path for success, and even give you the benefit of the doubt that you were including careers like plumber or electrician, neither of which require the advanced levels of indoctrination for a 4-year degree.

This is a nation of 320 million people. Once you get beyond a certain size, we require X amount of decent paying jobs even at a relatively low skill set. Other near-superpowers seem to realize that, and protect their industries accordingly. Right now we have huge dropout rates in major population centers and your focus is on higher education? Which I assume would be tax-payer funded and free? Will this beyond-high-school experience be compulsory? BTW, there already is a path to free college... Join the military. Another path would be to get an entry-level, manual labor union job at an auto company and use their Tuition Assistance Program to fund your degree. And I'm sure there are equivalents elsewhere. In fact, I know of scholarships that go unused every year.

But let's say the free college thing gets off the ground, human nature and background aren't issues, and everybody gets their 4-year degree. What happens then? The meaning of said degree (which is really about work ethic) is diluted and the cream still rises to the top, perhaps getting Master's degrees now.

If were were a much smaller nation that did little more than process data, your education solution might have merit. The scale of people who either didn't have the genetic smarts or didn't have the upbringing to drag their *** out of bed and get to class (much like a job) would be small enough they could be absorbed by some benevolent welfare system. But what if it were 1/3 of your population?

And by the way, I don't subscribe to the notion that every non-college person either lacks intelligence or work ethic. When Chrysler went in the toilet circa 2009, I was temporarily forced back into the "blue collar" ranks after 16 years of salaried employment. I met people who worked in a factory because they spent their downtime pastoring a church in some otherwise horrible Detroit neighborhood, or using their vacation weeks to mentor kids in another state. If they had a job that they "took home", none of that would be possible. If they made half as much money, forget about helping others. It's funny how I never hear this as a talking point, even among Democrats who're always preaching their concern for the workin' man, single mom, or transgendered carbon-units.

It was Trump's responsibility and his Republican party to get an immigration bill through Congress - where is it? Just saying the Democrats wouldn't have accepted anything is ludicrous, unless you want to run a dictatorship. Where did all this divisiveness come from so suddenly that you are relying on to serve your position.........?

Where is the "Great Republican Health Care Bill" that Trump has repeatedly said they would pass? Same nothing burger................................

And on and on.

You can deflect and misquote and whatever, but you never answer the questions I ask. Where did I say this for example: "And by the way, I don't subscribe to the notion that every non-college person either lacks intelligence or work ethic" ?

What did the Trump party do to reduce your taxes like they passed (along with Democratic support of course when money is kept in their pockets too) for the rich and corporations in 2017? In the 2018 elections run up, Trump said "the next great tax cut will be for you" - where is it? So how is the middle class able to afford college for their kids since the rich just keep getting richer and the middle class just gets poorer?

I clearly said that if you can't afford a college degree, then you at least had better develop a good trade if you want to live in the middle class in the future (and once again I never said such trades require a 4 year degree). Otherwise, you will be in the labor force that doesn't pay that well and/or probably be living paycheck to paycheck or working multiple jobs to make ends meet.

You can cite 5 of the 500 bills, what about the rest? All the 500 bills from the House had no Republican input - prove it......................................

You continue to misquote me every time - where did I say "free college" ? I fully expect people to pay for it just like my middle class parents with my also working were able to do. Now few middle class parents can afford to send their kids to college, whether it be for engineering or science or whatever.............med school is even much worse................... - education needs to be affordable!

So how does this nation in the future compete with other nations that support funding people with the capability to enter college when we just make it nearly impossible anymore for the middle class? If they are graduating more people in the sciences, where does this country continue to get its engineering/science talent to compete? As for the rest of the majors, I don't really have strong inclinations as to the support they should get.

Where did you get that I implied or assumed this: and even give you the benefit of the doubt that you were including careers like plumber or electrician, neither of which require the advanced levels of indoctrination for a 4-year degree ? Of course I was including them - why wouldn't I - they are in demand and they are skilled trades???? I don't need your benefit of the doubt.

There is no point in my responding to you in the future, as you always misquote me and take things in a direction I wasn't going. And just obfuscate everything rather than address my points. I don't respect that. Over and out.

 

[300rag]

I get that a lot are pissed off, but to twist so many threads into ones of this type is getting little out of hand. A simple question about an aluminum jack has morphed into yet another left vs right tirade, which should have been confined to the "America" thread.
Rant off.

 

[stubs300]

I get that a lot are pissed off, but to twist so many threads into ones of this type is getting little out of hand. A simple question about an aluminum jack has morphed into yet another left vs right tirade, which should have been confined to the "America" thread.
Rant off.

Yeah, so much for not talking Politics on a car board!!! Or is it cars on a Political board?

 

[Carmine]

I'll just reply quickly because I feel bad if Steve feels I "misquoted" him. No politics.

To me it appears that you were proposing higher education as the solution to a transitioning economy, perhaps as has been done in a British empire nations, which used to have a much larger manufacturing presence. I don't think that works for the United States because we are a far larger and more diverse nation, in very different circumstances... Although when one thinks of how far the British Empire once stretched, a case could be made we are approaching similar over-extension. Add to that our nice-guy basis in English Common Law.

A similar point could be made by just saying once everybody has a 4-year degree, they're worthless. Essentially Grade 16. And so on... I know of sooo many jobs that require a 4-year degree to be considered, but no application of said degree to do the job. The only reason most of these employers want to see that degree is so they know you're capable of getting out of bed without the threat of a truant officer throwing you in Boystown.

And if you're going to propose this, you must also propose a funding system. Otherwise I don't see how the needle moves from where it's at now.

 

[saforwardlook]

I would prefer that politics be banned from a car site, as I have stated many times.

But that topic will continue to be acceptable as long as Joey believes it improves his bottom line.

Sometimes the best way to get rid of a bad policy is to work it to death................................