Heavy Metal

3175375 said:
The flying wing aircraft requires constant adjustment of the control surfaces. I find it amazing that the YB-35 and YB-49 flew with mechanical or manual (pilot) controls.

View attachment 750600
Click to expand...
i think I recall the flying vings were hard to fly in the pure analog era. I learned the Conccorde was "tailess." Part of why its had a "droop nose" was so pilots could see better but also inherent to the design they had to do it. it had a vertical stablizer but no horizontal stabilzers, opting instead for sophisticated contrlols on specially-curved delta wings. Even then it was allegedly hard to fly.

1768227189538.png
1768227297800.png


Below, the Horten-229 in the 30's (a tad ahead of usa & Northrup B-35 ) alllegedly was the first to try "tailess", essentially a flying wing. Like many things the Nazis were technicallly ahead of the world on, they couldn't finish it and never used it in WWII.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horten_H.V

1768227555111.png
 
amazinblue82 said:
i think I recall the flying vings were hard to fly in the pure analog era. I learned the Conccorde was "tailess." Part of why its had a "droop nose" was so pilots could see better but also inherent to the design they had to do it. it had a vertical stablizer but no horizontal stabilzers, opting instead for sophisticated contrlols on specially-curved delta wings. Even then it was allegedly hard to fly.

View attachment 750606View attachment 750607

Below, the Horten-229 in the 30's (a tad ahead of usa & Northrup B-35 ) alllegedly was the first to try "tailess", essentially a flying wing. Like many things the Nazis were technicallly ahead of the world on, they couldn't finish it and never used it in WWII.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horten_H.V

View attachment 750609
Click to expand...
There’s a HO 229 at the Smithsonian and I believe that they are restoring it.

Horten Ho 229 V3 at the Restoration Hangar | National Air and Space Museum
 
setting aside number of parts vs a car, that thing is gonna need custom made parts just to restoe let alone becomr airworthy again. fascinating story Horten Ho 229 - Wikipedia
"
The only surviving Ho 229 airframe, the V3—and the only surviving Second World War-era German jet prototype still in existence—is on display in the main hall of the Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center of the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum (NASM) alongside other WWII-era German aircraft."Horten Ho 229 - Wikipedia"span. It is displayed partially restored, the wings of the aircraft displayed separately from the center section.

In April 1945, George Patton’s Third Army found four Horten prototypes, the Ho 229s and a Horten glider. Of three Ho 229s, the V3 was nearest to completion, and was shipped to the United States for evaluation.
1768233907481.png


Specifications (Horten H.IX V2)
Data from Nurflügel,[31] (Ho 229A)The Complete Book of Fighters[32]

General characteristics

Crew: 1
Length: 7.4 m (24 ft 3 in) chord at centre-line
Orthographically diagram
Ho 229A: 7.47 m (24.5 ft)
Wingspan: 16.8 m (55 ft 1 in)
Ho 229A: 16.76 m (55.0 ft)
Height: 1.1 m (3 ft 7 in) cockpit height
Ho 229A: 2.81 m (9 ft 3 in) overall height
Wing area: 52.8 m2 (568 sq ft)
Ho 229A: 50.2 m2 (540 sq ft)
Aspect ratio: 7.8
Empty weight: 4,844 kg (10,679 lb)
Ho 229A: 4,600 kg (10,100 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 6,876 kg (15,159 lb)
Ho 229A: 8,100 kg (17,900 lb)
Fuel capacity: 1,700 kg (3,700 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × Junkers Jumo 004B turbojet engine, 8.83 kN (1,990 lbf) thrust each
Performance

Maximum speed: 960 km/h (600 mph, 520 kn)
Ho 229A: 950 km/h (590 mph; 510 kn) / M0.77 at sea level; 977 km/h (607 mph; 528 kn) / M0.92 at 12,000 m (39,000 ft)
Cruise speed: 900 km/h (560 mph, 490 kn)
Never exceed speed: 1,000 km/h (620 mph, 540 kn)
Take-off speed: 150 km/h (93 mph; 81 kn)
Landing speed: 130 km/h (81 mph; 70 kn)
Range: 1,900 km (1,200 mi, 1,000 nmi) maximum
Rate of climb: 22 m/s (4,300 ft/min)
Wing loading: 130 kg/m2 (27 lb/sq ft)
Thrust/weight: 0.382
Armament

Guns: Ho 229A: 2x 30 mm (1.181 in) MK 108 cannon
 
amazinblue82 said:
setting aside number of parts vs a car, that thing is gonna need custom made parts just to restoe let alone becomr airworthy again. fascinating story Horten Ho 229 - Wikipedia
"
The only surviving Ho 229 airframe, the V3—and the only surviving Second World War-era German jet prototype still in existence—is on display in the main hall of the Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center of the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum (NASM) alongside other WWII-era German aircraft."Horten Ho 229 - Wikipedia"span. It is displayed partially restored, the wings of the aircraft displayed separately from the center section.

In April 1945, George Patton’s Third Army found four Horten prototypes, the Ho 229s and a Horten glider. Of three Ho 229s, the V3 was nearest to completion, and was shipped to the United States for evaluation.
View attachment 750620

Specifications (Horten H.IX V2)
Data from Nurflügel,[31] (Ho 229A)The Complete Book of Fighters[32]

General characteristics

Crew: 1
Length: 7.4 m (24 ft 3 in) chord at centre-line
Orthographically diagram
Ho 229A: 7.47 m (24.5 ft)
Wingspan: 16.8 m (55 ft 1 in)
Ho 229A: 16.76 m (55.0 ft)
Height: 1.1 m (3 ft 7 in) cockpit height
Ho 229A: 2.81 m (9 ft 3 in) overall height
Wing area: 52.8 m2 (568 sq ft)
Ho 229A: 50.2 m2 (540 sq ft)
Aspect ratio: 7.8
Empty weight: 4,844 kg (10,679 lb)
Ho 229A: 4,600 kg (10,100 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 6,876 kg (15,159 lb)
Ho 229A: 8,100 kg (17,900 lb)
Fuel capacity: 1,700 kg (3,700 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × Junkers Jumo 004B turbojet engine, 8.83 kN (1,990 lbf) thrust each
Performance

Maximum speed: 960 km/h (600 mph, 520 kn)
Ho 229A: 950 km/h (590 mph; 510 kn) / M0.77 at sea level; 977 km/h (607 mph; 528 kn) / M0.92 at 12,000 m (39,000 ft)
Cruise speed: 900 km/h (560 mph, 490 kn)
Never exceed speed: 1,000 km/h (620 mph, 540 kn)
Take-off speed: 150 km/h (93 mph; 81 kn)
Landing speed: 130 km/h (81 mph; 70 kn)
Range: 1,900 km (1,200 mi, 1,000 nmi) maximum
Rate of climb: 22 m/s (4,300 ft/min)
Wing loading: 130 kg/m2 (27 lb/sq ft)
Thrust/weight: 0.382
Armament

Guns: Ho 229A: 2x 30 mm (1.181 in) MK 108 cannon
Click to expand...
Here’s the first Northrop flying wing, X-216H… circa 1928…


IMG_9698.jpeg
 
PBJ landing gear in action! This is one of the final swings after doing several with the gear doors disconnected. A gear swing isn’t just putting the airplane on jacks and seeing if the gear works, it’s a ton of work! We check the position indication, emergency extension system, downlock latch manual override, various clearances of the landing gear mechanism, ensure that the brake hoses, wiring, etc clears the landing gear and nacelle, give each gear a good shake to make sure nothing is excessively worn, and more!

 
Rare color pictures of the Consolidated R2Y “Liberator Liner” which was a 1940s American prototype military airliner and transport aircraft developed by Consolidated Aircraft for the United States Navy, derived from the B-24 Liberator design. Only a single prototype (XR2Y-1) was built, featuring a new fuselage and components from other Consolidated designs.

After a brief Navy evaluation, it was demilitarized and leased to American Airlines as a freighter named City of Salinas.

Consolidated R2Y "Liberator Liner" (Consolidated Model 39) / USAAF / USN Library / Forums - Axis and Allies Paintworks

IMG_9719.jpeg
IMG_9718.jpeg
 
Idle thought.

watching the SLS trekking out on the crawler reminded me of SATURN V Doing it back in the day. Recall, it weighed 7.5 million lbs. this sLS weighs nearly 9 million lbs. Granted something that heavy can relatively easily stand on its own but surely "something" is helping clamp it down (so a wind gust, earthquake, tidal wave,etc., doesnt knock it over).

While the gantry and its own weight help keep it stable/upright, when it lights up it just sits there a few seconds, then up it goes.


Attached is a two minute video you may find interesting. How is this done? For the briefest few seconds, its gotta hold 7.5 million lbs of thrust down, release all at once evenly, and get outta the way. Something similar has to happen for SLS or any heavy rocket design.



Cool stuff in its own right. Enjoy if interested . again, two minutes.
 
Last edited:
this upcoming Artemis 2 flight back to the Moon stirs memories of Apollo 8. i got good memory of 1968. this 11 minute video refreshes my mmory, perhaps any of you who were old enough to remember, 1968 was a real bummer of a year. Bobby Kennedy, MLK assassinated, Vietnam going on, LBJ deciding to give up the presidency, and riots in the streets. i was in elementary school but i got a vivid memory, albeit with a pre-adolescent childs understanding, of Apollo and my folks being on edge in 1968 like everybody else in America. It was kinda scary. my uncle (10 years older than me, i knew him my whole life. he made it back alive) was also a corporal in Vietnam so all that war stuff came up regularly in the family.

anyway i also recall Apollo 8 being full of risks in trying beat the Russians to the Moon per assassinated JFK's promise. These guys could have easily be "lost in space" given the unprecedented things they had to do to get there and back. As a kid, I didnt understand fully the risk as i do now of course, but i inderstood NASA and Borman, Lovell, and Anders showed big brass ones by going on this mission with so many big things they never/rarely tried and didnt work when the tested it. they are about to do it again 60 years later.

Risks and context are different, but theres some dicey stuff that has to go well in a few weeks.



if you didn't recall Apollo 8 was a big success. if you weren't paying attention or too young/not born yet in 1968, if you are interested the short vid is a good refresher. And surely you remember this. Still the only place we know. Bill Anders' first ever photo of our "pale blue dot." from Apollo 8.

i remember crowding around the family 19 inch RCA to listen the the Apollo 8 guys give their Christman Eve 1968 address to the "good earth". Another memory from the wayback machine.



NASA-Apollo8-Dec24-Earthrise.jpg
 
Last edited:
This NASA plane that belly-landed yesterday in Houston was a golden oldie.

General_Dynamics_WB-57F_Canberra (dunno which model, think is the 57F) designed for high-altitude reconnaisance (strong engines, lightweight desisn, long, wide, skinny wings like the U2 for maximum lift in thin air). Happens to be a low-profile design that looks like it can more easily make a belly landing as it apparently had to do this time.

Introduced in the Air Force in 1963, retired, fuselasge updated, repowered, and put back in use about 1970. Can operate for hours at at least 60,000+ feet.

1769607898596.png

1769608049357.png
1769608566708.png
1769608215562.png


General characteristics
  • Crew: 2
  • Capacity: 9,700 lb (4,400 kg) payload
  • Length: 68 ft 3 in (20.80 m)
  • Wingspan: 122 ft 6 in (37.34 m)
  • Height: 20 ft 6 in (6.25 m)
  • Wing area: 2,000 sq ft (190 m2)
  • Gross weight: 72,000 lb (32,659 kg)
  • Powerplant: 2 × Pratt & Whitney TF33-P-11A turbofans, 15,500 lbf (69 kN) thrust each
Performance
  • Maximum speed: 470 mph (760 km/h, 410 kn)
  • Maximum speed: Mach 0.78
  • Range: 2,900 mi (4,600 km, 2,500 nmi)
  • Endurance: 6.5 h
  • Service ceiling: 60,000 ft (18,000 m) (at least)
  • Rate of climb: 6,000 ft/min (30 m/s)
Spoiler Alert; Climactic scene in Flight of the Phoenix. Please dont watch if you want to see the movie. it was a key moment near the end. Several story arcs that percolate/develop over most of the movie clarify/wrap up.




three 1/2 minutes on shotgun starters.

 
Last edited:
amazinblue82 said:
This NASA plane that belly-landed yesterday in Houston was a golden oldie.

General_Dynamics_WB-57F_Canberra (dunno which model, think is the 57F) designed for high-altitude reconnaisance (strong engines, lightweight desisn, long, wide, skinny wings like the U2 for maximum lift in thin air). Happens to be a low-profile design that looks like it can more easiliy belly long as it apparently had to do this time.

Introduced in the Air Force in 1963, retired, fuselasge updated, repowered, and put back in use about 1970. Can operate for hours at at least
60,000+ feet.

View attachment 752742
View attachment 752745 View attachment 752747View attachment 752746

General characteristics
  • Crew: 2
  • Capacity: 9,700 lb (4,400 kg) payload
  • Length: 68 ft 3 in (20.80 m)
  • Wingspan: 122 ft 6 in (37.34 m)
  • Height: 20 ft 6 in (6.25 m)
  • Wing area: 2,000 sq ft (190 m2)
  • Gross weight: 72,000 lb (32,659 kg)
  • Powerplant: 2 × Pratt & Whitney TF33-P-11A turbofans, 15,500 lbf (69 kN) thrust each
Performance
  • Maximum speed: 470 mph (760 km/h, 410 kn)
  • Maximum speed: Mach 0.78
  • Range: 2,900 mi (4,600 km, 2,500 nmi)
  • Endurance: 6.5 h
  • Service ceiling: 60,000 ft (18,000 m) (at least)
  • Rate of climb: 6,000 ft/min (30 m/s)
Click to expand...
They got rid of the gunpowder starting engines…

 
If you've ever wondered about the big "A" on FIFI's tail, it stands for Agather, the man who led the effort to obtain and restore our B-29 Superfortress. In fact, the Victor N. Agather STEM Innovation Hangar at the Henry B. Tippie National Aviation Education Center at our HQ in Dallas is named in his honor as well. This #ThrowbackThursday, let's take a look at the life of Vic Agather.

Victor N. Agather, Sr., played a pivotal role in both the wartime development of the B-29 Superfortress and its postwar preservation. A Montana native and early aviator, Agather contributed significantly to the B-29 program during World War II, serving from blueprint to V-J Day. He was instrumental in overcoming engine issues during the aircraft's rushed deployment in the “Battle of Kansas” and served in key theaters such as India, China, and the Marianas. After the war, he built a successful investment business in Mexico before retiring to Texas.

In 1964, Agather joined the Commemorative Air Force (CAF) and became central to preserving the legacy of the B-29. He personally financed the acquisition and restoration of a derelict B-29, later named FIFI in honor of his wife. His efforts led to lifting a U.S. Air Force restriction that had originally grounded the aircraft. Agather also pioneered the concept of touring the aircraft to raise funds and awareness, a practice that remains vital to the CAF today. FIFI returned to the skies in 1974, becoming a flying symbol of World War II history.

Agather’s legacy continued through his children, all active in the CAF and dedicated to the mission he championed. His son Neils remains a leader in several CAF-affiliated boards, and his son John helped oversee a major re-engining project for FIFI in 2010. Today, even his granddaughter, Lorene, works to support the B29/B24 Squadron.

When Agather passed away in 2000, FIFI and several other warbirds flew in tribute above his home in San Antonio. That flyover served not only as a farewell but as a testament to a man whose passion ensured that the B-29 would fly again for future generations.

I had the blessing of hitching a ride in Fifi in Sioux Falls, SD.

IMG_9870.jpeg

IMG_9871.jpeg
IMG_9872.jpeg
 
When Nazi Germany surrendered in May 1945, more than a hundred U-boats were still at sea. In the days that followed, they surfaced in quiet harbours across Europe, their war finally over.What came next was unprecedented: hundreds of submarines captured, studied, and deliberately destroyed. This is what happened to the U-boats after World War II.

On 8 May 1945, Germany signed its unconditional surrender. Within hours, Admiral Karl Dönitz, Hitler’s successor and former U-boat commander, issued a simple but historic order: all U-boats are to cease operations, surface, and surrender to the nearest Allied authority. The long war beneath the Atlantic was over.

Across the North Atlantic, the Bay of Biscay, and the fjords of Norway, more than 150 U-boats surfaced, their exhausted crews hoisting white flags as Allied aircraft circled overhead. They sailed toward ports such as Loch Eriboll in Scotland, Lisahally in Northern Ireland, and Portland in southern England—each arrival marking the quiet collapse of the “wolfpack” fleet that once haunted Allied shipping lanes. The surrender process was tightly controlled.

Allied warships escorted the submarines into port, where Royal Navy and U.S. Navy boarding parties seized codes, charts, and weapons. Engineers catalogued the rusted, battle-scarred vessels, many barely seaworthy after months underwater. At Loch Eriboll, nearly forty U-boats anchored together in a grim parade of defeat.

The logistics were immense—towing and securing submarines from across occupied Europe. A few never made it, scuttled or lost to mechanical failure before reaching port. In the following weeks, Allied leaders faced a pressing question: what to do with the world’s most advanced submarine fleet? The United States and Britain saw immense intelligence value in the revolutionary Type XXI and XXIII designs, while the Soviet Union, entering the early Cold War, demanded its share of the captured technology.

Meanwhile, the captured German crews endured long months of captivity. Some were interrogated for intelligence, particularly engineers familiar with new propulsion systems or torpedo technology. Others languished in camps, uncertain of their fates. By late 1945, most were repatriated to a defeated, divided Germany.

By year’s end, harbours from Trondheim to Portsmouth were clogged with captured submarines. What came next, Operation Deadlight, would ensure that most of these machines never sailed again. By the autumn of 1945, the Allies had gathered more than a hundred surrendered U-boats in British harbours. Keeping them afloat was costly, and storing them indefinitely was impossible.

The Royal Navy therefore approved Operation Deadlight, a plan to tow the captured submarines out into the Atlantic and sink them. Between November 1945 and February 1946, this quiet operation would erase most of the Kriegsmarine’s undersea fleet from existence. The logistics were daunting.

In total, 156 U-boats had surrendered to the Allies, with 116 designated for destruction under Deadlight. The Royal Navy divided the operation into three dumping areas—XX, YY, and ZZ—roughly 100 to 120 nautical miles northwest of Ireland. There, the submarines would be sunk either by naval gunfire, explosive charges, or by simply opening their sea valves. The first phase began in November 1945, when Royal Navy tugs started towing groups of submarines from Scottish and Irish ports. But many of the U-boats were in dreadful condition.

Some had been at sea for months without maintenance; others were battered by Allied bombing or deliberate sabotage. Their ballast tanks leaked, their engines seized, and their hulls were weakened by rust. In stormy winter seas, towing these unstable wrecks was a hazardous task. As a result, more than a third of the U-boats never made it to the scuttling zones.

Fifty-six vessels foundered or sank on the way, dragged down by rough weather or structural failure. The Royal Navy recorded each loss but made little effort to recover them—Deadlight’s purpose was destruction, not preservation. Once in position, destroyers and frigates finished the job. Crews sometimes used aerial rockets or naval gunfire to ensure the boats went under quickly.

Among the doomed submarines was U-2336, the last U-boat to sink Allied ships during the war. It surrendered at Lisahally in June 1945 and was deliberately sunk off Ireland in January 1946. Another, U-295, met the same fate on 17 December 1945 after being towed from Loch Ryan. Not all U-boats were destroyed.

IMG_9873.jpeg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Pete Kaczmarski
"Blues Brothers" movie, 60 cruisers for $400 each....
Replies
6
Views
4K
tallhair
tallhair
tbm3fan
The Last Battle
Replies
8
Views
3K
tbm3fan
tbm3fan
Back
Top