Hitler Parade Car to be Auctioned at Barrett-Jackson

[78Brougham]

I agree to a point, it is a piece of history and part of Mercedes lore, but the circus/carnival atmosphere that IS B-J, to me is not the place for THAT particular car. IMHO.
There are plenty of people that would buy it. Take it to Sotheby's or maybe they did and that auction house had the good taste not to get involved. Just sayin'

 

[69CoronetRT]

I stayed on topic, discussing Germany, not Italy (which did nothing but hold Germany back until in the end Italy stabbed their supposed ally, Germany, in the back), nor Japan.
If you believe the victors' side of the story (which it seems that you do), you'd believe that Hitler was financed by Zionist Jews from the USA, or that Hitler himself had Jewish ancestry, or the stories about shrunken heads, lampshades and so on.
Is it inconceivable that an industrious and intelligent Germanic ruler and his people could manage to turn their country around solely on their own efforts?
I touched on 'territorial gains', which was nothing more than Germany reclaiming land lost at the end of WW1. The German government attempted on various occasions to negotiate with Poland to no avail, Poland had grand visions of expansion and since they believed that they had England and France to back them up, they became very emboldened and arrogant. Having your people uprooted, beaten and murdered isn't a justification for war?, how many times has the USA bombed nations because of American loss of lives or intervened when Americans overseas are threatened?
Poland was used by its 'allies' as a pawn for starting WW2, the Poles were simply too stupid to see it and were dropped like a leper when her 'friends' got real cosy with 'Uncle Joe'.

As someone that has done extensive reading on WWII, some of your assertions are new to me. I’d be interested in your sources.

 

[1970cat]

it's just a car. it doesn't know the meaning of hatred, evil or poor judgement or whatever you want to call it. if something should be shunned then the tanks, weapons carriers, guns, knives, etc. that are traded on a daily basis (without batting an eye) should be scrutinized. they are the closest representative to the devastation.

 

[Fratzog]

As someone that has done extensive reading on WWII, some of your assertions are new to me. I’d be interested in your sources.

Can't speak for CRV but his points seem to be well documented. For example it is acknowledged by most historians that the "help" Poland expected from France and the allies under the Locarno Treaties was at best lip service. CRV stated more bluntly than most but Poland should have seen the writing on the wall after Hitler gambled and won in the Rhineland. The allies reluctance to get involved with more than sharp diplomatic notes should have had them sharpening their negotiating pencils wrt the corridor and Danzig.

 

[tbm3fan]

The oldest swastika has been dated to 15,000 years old, found in what is the Ukraine today.
The Sanskrit language is also an ancient Indo-European language, Hindu is derived from Sanskrit, the swastika and India's caste system are remnants from the period when the ruling class were Aryans (that means Whites).
Buddhism, emanating from the same region which also uses the swastika symbol, Buddha is described in ancient texts as having had Caucasian features, hence why he's portrayed with blue eyes even in Asian-looking statues.
Incidentally, hundreds of mummies have been found in the Tarim Basin in China and they too clearly have European features (blonde and/or red hair, facial features, etc.). Also of interest are the pyramids found in China, built much like those in Egypt and South America.
White people were scattered all over the globe in ancient times and were responsible for most civilizations credited to the current peoples in those regions, there is much evidence to support this but it has become politically incorrect for the scientific and archeological community to state the truth about their findings, much like Kennewick man had serious implications to the 'Native Americans' narrative.

Start posting your scientific citations that have been vetted and I hope they are damn good as I will read each and every one of them. Maybe at least ten across the archeology, biological and genetic spectrum to prove your white supremacy theory. I will look forward to reading each and every one. No politically incorrect mumbo jumbo because science is science first and foremost. I'll pay close attention to the authors and in biology/genetics I luckily am pretty well versed in who is who.

 

[crv]

your white supremacy theory

And there you have it, the accusations which are typical of people on the left of the political spectrum.

No politically incorrect mumbo jumbo

In that case, everything I've read and watched, by your standards, is politically incorrect and you wouldn't accept any of it. Ignorance is bliss.

I luckily am pretty well versed in who is who.

So you can automatically separate the 'mumbo jumbo' from the gospels of history, right?

 

[crv]

As someone that has done extensive reading on WWII, some of your assertions are new to me. I’d be interested in your sources.

I'm not certain which aspect of it you would like reference to in particular, but if it's regarding the conflict between Germany and Poland which led to WW2, here's a bit of reading for you, translations of official documents: http://www.jrbooksonline.com/PDF_Bo...fficial_German_White_Book-1939-254pgs-POL.pdf
Yes, it's the other side's point of view, which we never get to read about in mainstream 'history' books. Enjoy.

 

[crv]

If anyone would care to learn about the other side of the story, I recommend this for starters:
Justice for Germans
Disclaimer: I am not German, nor a 'neo-Nazi' or 'White Supremacist', just someone who prefers truth rather than fiction.

 

[Fratzog]

No politically incorrect mumbo jumbo because science is science first and foremost. I'll pay close attention to the authors and in biology/genetics I luckily am pretty well versed in who is who.

If you scratch the surface and are really interested in science and objective history it quickly becomes apparent that the corporate media line is treating the public like mushrooms. Once you become aware of this you will start to ask why. Here is an example.

 

[69CoronetRT]

If anyone would care to learn about the other side of the story, I recommend this for starters:
Justice for Germans
Disclaimer: I am not German, nor a 'neo-Nazi' or 'White Supremacist', just someone who prefers truth rather than fiction.

“Truth “ is subjective and filled with personal perspective. You’ll never find it especially is on line articles such as your links to websites with a stated bias going in. Goebels himself would probably be proud of that link.

I also encourage you to seek out noted, acedemic historians or works of principals involved in events as opposed to articles citing persons generations removed from events with a background in advertising. Trust me, we know how to spin.

Your links may reinforce a personal bias but are questionable, at best, for seeking “truth” on WWII history.

Your links also effectively remove historical perspective on the bombing campaigns or changes in capability, ability or policy affecting tactical or strategic bombing over time. They, conveniently, eliminate acts of civilian bombing and escalation by all parties all over the world (Germany in WWI, Spain, China) over time.

If you are truly interested in seeking facts, I’ll recommend some references by credible sources. If you want “truth” .....good luck with that.

 

[Carmine]

Here's why I'm dropping out of this debate... What am I going to do with this newly acquired outlook, even if I accept the premise?

For example... I consider myself more expert on trade policy than most people. Much of what exists on the subject is biased or just plain wrong. As an example, I couldn't imagine someone buying an LG, Samsung or GE major appliance considering how that segment has been decimated in the U.S. by Korean/Chinese dumping.

Yet people do.

I suppose I could go into Home Depot and set light to their appliance department, or stand outside the place with a bullhorn.

About all I can practically do is write an occasional op-ed piece in my local paper, maybe go on TV as a Trump supporter. etc. And that means I'm doing more than 99% of the population.

So what do you do with your "knowledge" of the causes of WWII? And I'm not saying I buy it, because I don't, but even if you won me over, what would I do with it?

Not much, practically.

The winners write the history. It's been that way since the start of history.

 

[Fratzog]

And I'm not saying I buy it, because I don't, but even if you won me over, what would I do with it?

Carm, we are still probably to close to the events in question to form an objective assessment. In you I sense a kindred sceptical spirit that is is refreshing. I doubt it's in your nature to remain silent and let purveyors of BS off the hook.

 

[Fratzog]

I’ll recommend some references by credible sources.

Reading about this era of history is a favourite past time of mine and would appreciate anything you care to share.

 

[Carmine]

Carm, we are still probably to close to the events in question to form an objective assessment. In you I sense a kindred sceptical spirit that is is refreshing. I doubt it's in your nature to remain silent and let purveyors of BS off the hook.

I know what you're saying. I'm not a go-along-to-get-along type...and there are things I can do beyond what I mentioned. Raising skeptical children for example.

But at a certain point, there is only so much you can do with true knowledge that conflicts with "accepted" knowledge. I've raised trade policy as an example. Hell, I think the Beatles were (unknowing) agents of an organization with a long-term goal of destroying Western cultural norms and mores. You can see where we're heading just by looking at aspects of Animal Farm, 1984 and Fahrenheit 451 and seeing the sheep mimic what they see on their video-walls.

But the problem is it seems the "thinkers" are analyzing the past, they're never really out in front of this, except at the margins. Where are today's Orwell and Bradbury to provoke thought?

 

[Fratzog]

Raising skeptical children for example.

I know I did something right when my daughter (a well meaning snowflake) gave me Dawkins' The Greatest Show on Earth for Christmas. My two daughters and I had some very respectful heavy discussions over the holidays; although my wife walked by shaking her head a few times. I'm not out to change the world but if I can occasionally cause someone to pause and question a paradigm that's OK.

 

[69CoronetRT]

Reading about this era of history is a favourite past time of mine and would appreciate anything you care to share.

I read two books back to back on the firebombombing of Dresden. I remember one was Firestorm but do not recall the other. Reading them back to back helped reinforce that “truth” is in the eye of the beholder. Both described the same events but from two perspectives. One took the more neutral perspective of narrative. One took the perspective of the “unnecessary/retribution “ side. The heartbreaking part was reading about what happened at the Dresden zoo during the firestorm.

I like Eric Hammel’s work as he writes a lot of personal stories of the participants wrapped in campaign settings. I’d recommend his three book series on Guadalcanal. Each covers a different aspect of the battle air-sea-land. He’s not a true academic per se but writes in an easy to read way.

I like Richard Frank’s work on Guadalcanal and Downfall, his book on the last days of Japan, the American plan for invasion, the political upheaval in Japan, and the effect of the atomic bombs on all the parties.

For pre war perspective, War Plan Orange describes the American plan for war with Japan written in the 20’s and 30’s. (Interesting section on coal fired battle ships and why Guam was critical to the US) The Battle For Moscow. Robert Leckie’s work is good with the autobiographical Helmet for my Pillow at the top of the list. With the Old Breed by Sledge.

There’s a lot more. I’ve given away or sold so many books I’ve read in the last 25 years, on the PTO, ETO, Mediterranean and Eastern front I don’t recall all of them.

 

[Fratzog]

I read two books back to back on the firebombombing of Dresden. I remember one was Firestorm but do not recall the other. Reading them back to back helped reinforce that “truth” is in the eye of the beholder. Both described the same events but from two perspectives. One took the more neutral perspective of narrative. One took the perspective of the “unnecessary/retribution “ side. The heartbreaking part was reading about what happened at the Dresden zoo during the firestorm.

I like Eric Hammel’s work as he writes a lot of personal stories of the participants wrapped in campaign settings. I’d recommend his three book series on Guadalcanal. Each covers a different aspect of the battle air-sea-land. He’s not a true academic per se but writes in an easy to read way.

I like Richard Frank’s work on Guadalcanal and Downfall, his book on the last days of Japan, the American plan for invasion, the political upheaval in Japan, and the effect of the atomic bombs on all the parties.

For pre war perspective, War Plan Orange describes the American plan for war with Japan written in the 20’s and 30’s. (Interesting section on coal fired battle ships and why Guam was critical to the US) The Battle For Moscow. Robert Leckie’s work is good with the autobiographical Helmet for my Pillow at the top of the list. With the Old Breed by Sledge.

There’s a lot more. I’ve given away or sold so many books I’ve read in the last 25 years, on the PTO, ETO, Mediterranean and Eastern front I don’t recall all of them.

Thanks for those recommendations. My history reading for the last few years has focused on WW2 in Europe trying to understanding the Nazi phenomena. Some of the better books I've read include:

The Third Reich, The Rise and Fall of the Nazis - Martyn Whittock
The Birth of the Nazis, How the Freikorps Blazed a Trail for Hitler - Nigel Jones
Inside the Third Reich, Memoir - Albert Speer
KL A History of the Nazi Concentration Camps - Nikolaus Wachsmann
The Nuremburg Interviews - Leon Goldenhohn

Of the above, Jones' book will provide the best insight how the brutal political environment, economic conditions and the Versailles Treaty led to the rise of the National Socialists. I'm currently reading Explaining Hitler by Ron Rosenbaum. Next up is The Nazi and the Psychiatrist by Jack El-Hai. I will add your recommendations to my to read list.

 

[1978 NYB]

Interesting data.....

I was stationed at numerous bases in these areas.

Allied War Crimes: The Terror-Bombing of German Civilians During the Second World War

 

[69CoronetRT]

Thanks for those recommendations. My history reading for the last few years has focused on WW2 in Europe trying to understanding the Nazi phenomena. Some of the better books I've read include:

The Third Reich, The Rise and Fall of the Nazis - Martyn Whittock
The Birth of the Nazis, How the Freikorps Blazed a Trail for Hitler - Nigel Jones
Inside the Third Reich, Memoir - Albert Speer
KL A History of the Nazi Concentration Camps - Nikolaus Wachsmann
The Nuremburg Interviews - Leon Goldenhoh

Of the above, Jones' book will provide the best insight how the brutal political environment, economic conditions and the Versailles Treaty led to the rise of the National Socialists. I'm currently reading Explaining Hitler by Ron Rosenbaum. Next up is The Nazi and the Psychiatrist by Jack El-Hai. I will add your recommendations to my to read list.

And yours to mine. Thank you.

Ever read the classic, Rise and Fall of the Third Reich? At 1,245 pages, it’s a commitment I haven’t made.....yet.

How was Speer’s memoir?

 

[Fratzog]

Ever read the classic, Rise and Fall of the Third Reich?

Yup, it is my brother's book I borrowed about 1 year ago. Also a good reference.

How was Speer’s memoir?

Outstanding. If you want to fully understand the strategic and logistical reasons Germany lost the war it is a must read. It also provides a great insight into Hiltler's inner circle and his delusional and magnetic personality.