is 800+ hp street-able? Turbo 440?

[furious70]

I have an old Classic FAST box. Does everything I need, but if it ever dies there's no support. It was manufactured in 1997!

 

[WissaMan]

My vote would be for a fully programmable EFI all the way. It just opens up so many more possibilities. For instance, you could mount a flex fuel sensor and run E85. Or if E85 isn't readily available where you live, you could also install a good quality methanol injection kit and drive it with the EFI. Either can net gains of 20% - 30% on a forced induction engine because of the increased octane and charge cooling effect. If you're not running really high boost, there's a possibility you may not even need an intercooler, which would simplify your plumbing.

EFI would give you many other options too, such as boost-by-gear, knock detection/response, closed loop fuel adjustment, closed loop boost control, etc. etc.

I love your ambitious plans. Someday I want to do something similar for my 68 Newport, so I'll be following your progress for sure. In my case, though I'd love to go turbo I think the plumbing would be too challenging so I'd probably go with a radial supercharger

 

[stubs300]

Seems like there are a good amount people are running 1000hp engines on the street. I go on youtube and all i see are twin turbo LS's or super charged Vettes making 1000+ hp. Dodge sell the helephant that makes 1k hp or you can buy the hellcat that makes 700hp. Maybe this is just me being de-sensitized to the idea because all I hear about is those power levels.

Hellcat is new technology, you're working with old. You dream about GM to much!

@1978 NYB Help me out here.

I think he want to build a "Pro-street" car! Remember those?

 

[WissaMan]

This guy put a turbo on a lightly modded motorhome 440 and cranked out 527hp/650tq at 8psi. 800hp from a built stroker should be easy-peasy

 

[Turboomni]

What about a centrifugal supercharger that would fit under the hood? No plumbing problems with exhaust manifolds and turbos ,heat and very predictable boost curve with no lag. Last thing that I don't believe was mentioned is a big stroker really overly built to run at a conservative 500 to 600 hp and 600+ torque but strong enough to take a 200 hp or more shot of NOS when you want it. You could then run headers for better power actually for either setup. I am not recommending anything but was thinking of other ways to get there that were already not mentioned. Hope all this hp and torque doesn't wrap your car into a pretzel!

 

[WissaMan]

That same guy from the above video I posted also put N2O on that same engine (not simultaneously with the turbo). The results were also quite amazing! I've always been very tempted by nitrous but I think I'd run the tank empty way too quick for it to be practical for me.

 

[CBODY67]

Look up an old Engine Masters video where they see how much boost a Chevy 350 can take. Seems the issue with piston longevity is that, for this test, they widened the end gaps on the rings. For when the "heat of high boost" would not cause the rings' end gaps to touch and destroy the piston. Quite interesting!

CBODY67

 

[twostick]

Those 88cc RPM heads I believe are open chamber. Not ideal for avoiding detonation and boost can dramatically increase the chance of that happening.

My 493 came in at 8.97:1 with IIRC a 34cc reverse dome or dish. Stroke is 4.15. 84cc RPM heads, zero deck and .039 head gaskets.

Kevin

 

[Turboomni]

That same guy from the above video I posted also put N2O on that same engine (not simultaneously with the turbo). The results were also quite amazing!

What I don't like is they never post what octane fuel they run for any given build. I asked that guy in the vid what octane you run? What about the Joe Shmoe with no access to race gas>?? Why don't you post what fuel you run on each build? He did not answer.

 

[furious70]

No2 for a street car basically means you don't have that power ever, just a bottle that's not armed and ready. But if you're over 500 hp without it then you probably wouldn't miss it. I will tell you that tipping into boost on a big block is fun... And always available

 

[WissaMan]

What I don't like is they never post what octane fuel they run for any given build. I asked that guy in the vid what octane you run? What about the Joe Shmoe with no access to race gas>?? Why don't you post what fuel you run on each build? He did not answer.

Good point. Race gas in a NA low comp motor would loose HP, but once the turbo is on it, race gas would help. I posted the octane question so lets see if I get a response...

 

[furious70]

I've been to 12psi so far with iron heads, xr-7 ngk plugs (one step colder), 93octane, water injection, and pulling 1*/1psi is timing. Each engine is unique, I tell you mine to say you don't have to go crazy to make it work.

 

[WissaMan]

Furious, do you have any kind of knock detection on your engine?

 

[furious70]

Nope, my system doesn't support that. Just my ears, which is tricky

 

[WissaMan]

Oooh yeah, careful! I read many a threads in the MR2 forums where people hosed their motors running stand alone ECUs w/o knock response. If you've got it tuned to the edge, all it takes is one tank of bad gas and poof! On those 2 liters 4 bangers it was usually the ringlands that went first

 

[Turboomni]

I will tell you that tipping into boost on a big block is fun... And always available

I'm not knocking turbos at all,I love them. In the day I was running my modified Shelby Omni GLHS at 20 psi boost on pump premium gas anywhere in the 1990's. Much bigger turbo [Modified Grand National compressor etc by Turbonetics] than stock with a larger 63 AR housing if I remember correctly. I was running water/Methanol injection to be safe with a custom computer calibration. Being 2000 lbs , 135 cubic inches ,fwd and 290 hp and 320 torque at the wheels running still rich and add torque steer to the mix you had a crazy ride. I have since toned it down with a milder roller cam and less boost of 12 psi [no water or meth needed now] and sticky race tires it still scares the **** outa me. Koni adjustable perch shocks with Eibach springs and race tires this thing handles like a slot car. I still enjoy the car and the kids go nuts over it at car shows as the car was made near the beginning of the small fwd ,turbo craze. As I get older I prefer my my Fury more and more. I will soon have my 505 440 stoker installed in the car to replace my low compression 440 which runs fine. The 440 maybe a perfect candidate for a refresh and forced induction of some kind. Just got to find a car to throw it in.

 

[furious70]

Yes you have to be careful but with a quiet street car it's not that hard to hear it be unhappy. I dialed mine back a bit to be safe. Timing was the big thing for mine, even at 5psi I had to back it off, but didn't have to back any more off on the way to 12psi

 

[MightyMats]

Long winded post. Thinking out loud here.

I think i'll run a Holly Super Sniper EFI set up. I think most of you are right about running EFI, it is probably the way to go. And the Sniper EFI will give me the throttle body injection im looking for. Also having electronics managing my AFR will be nice especially since I plan on driving this thing regularly.

I just printed out the 75 page Holly Super Sniper instructions and put them in a binder. I have a piece of paper here next to me and a high-lighter and im going through with a fine tooth comb taking notes on everything I will need to run this. Searching through the instructions it seems like Holly has a built in retard system for boost pressure that references off the boost sensor. I can set the idle advance, WOT advance, cruise advance, and timing retard all through the computer. I can also control my fans for my radiators, oil and water.

I think I would prefer to run a mechanical pump just so I will never have to deal with putting an electric pump in the tank or tapping a hole in the tank for a feed line. However I will have to see what my options are for mechanical pumps that can supply 60psi @50gph and the cost. If it doesn't make sense ill just see what i can do for electric pumps. Once I figure out everything I will need to run the fuel system, ill price it all out, hole punch it and put it in my little binder i got here and move on to pricing out the plumbing for the system.

For the exhaust im going to run a full custom stainless exhaust from stainless headers. My plan is to buy all the tubing and flanges and fab everything and tac it all into place. I don't weld stainless even though I have the equipment. So i'll tac everything and bring it to my local welder and have them back purge it and make everything prefect. I plan on doing all the welding for the aluminum plumbing for the charge tubing.

The turbo is going to have to sit on the passenger side somewhere with the steering shaft and brake booster on the driver side. If worst comes to worst I can always make a custom 2 piece steering shaft out of some u-joints and D stock with a carrier bearing or heim joint to support it. Atleast that would give me a reason to ditch the shitty rag joint on the steering box.

I will have to see what I have to clearance on the drivers side of the block when I get home. I don't think the drivers side is going to be a work of art but I think its going to be a major headache. I love how the torsion bar suspension floats but im worried about trying to wrap that header around to tie into the other one with the stock suspension. So we will see how that goes. I wonder if anyone would be pissed if I removed the front suspension in favor of a upper/lower control arm w/ coilovers. But i am getting too far ahead of myself. That is another project for another time.

My last considerations before I move on to planning the build for the long block itself is the mounting of the engine. I've torn my rubber engine mounts twice so I don't think that is an option. And hard mounting the engine from the blocks ears I am weary about. I have heard about them cracking and that's not something I really want to entertain. I think my only options for something with this power will be to plate mount the engine. So we will see how that goes, but I think it will be better in the long run and should help add some rigidity to the front of the car.


Thats all for now, let me know what you think of my idea's. Feel free to pick'em apart. Thanks, have a nice day.

 

[furious70]

800hp probably should have motor plate yes. 500-600hp no.
Embrace the electric pump.
Do you want stainless for the look? Mine is mild steel and it's been fine.

 

[MightyMats]

800hp probably should have motor plate yes. 500-600hp no.
Embrace the electric pump.
Do you want stainless for the look? Mine is mild steel and it's been fine.

Pretty much just for the looks