65Fury440
Senior Member
So many big words in one thread lol.
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Metal In Engine After Cam Break In
- Thread starter 65Fury440
- Start date
I agree w/ stubs300, a total through rebuild is in order. The metal shavings provide all the evidence. More run time only will only great more damage and add costs to the overall costs. Sorry.
65Fury440
Senior Member
I have my old 440 sitting in the corner I might give them.
Really nice folks that drank some bullshit Koolaid about the 361 and how great a big block Mopar is.
A 360 with the same parts would be just fine, and it would have been done.
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
I'd run it. It will be fine. I've done a lot of dumb stuff with engines and never had a problem. It's the ones I cared about that ended up in disaster.
65Fury440
Senior Member
I really do care about this one, just because they are nice people. They got the bone pretty hard, just thought I could help sort it out, just because I could.
There's a lot to do yet just to make it move. I'll get all that done and let her drive it for however long, hopefully enough time to get the Fury fuel system done.
1970FuryConv
Old Man with a Hat
I did too. Never had an infatuation with my navel, much less using navel contemplation as a part of yoga. Don't do yoga, don't have internal peace, and don't care. We come up with some weird off-the-wall **** sometimes.
stubs300
Senior Member
That was my intent!
marty koirtyohann
Well-Known Member
what oil r u running 35 psi is kind of low im running 50 @ idle &75 on the highway im running 20w50 Valvoline with Lucas zinc addative . noow y did u ct the oil filter open for? did u have a problem?
65Fury440
Senior Member
Hi Marty,
The engine sat with no valley pan on it just half assed covered. I drained 2-3 quarts of water out of it. After I fired it up, I wanted to see what ended up in the filter, after I run the cam in. There was some paint flakes, gasket maker, rust flakes, just a bunch of garbage in the oil. Threw a mesh type cleanable filter in it and ended up with the stuff in the picture. The engine may or may not be rebuilt, the cam was new, but the rest might be a Rustoleum rebuild. I simply offered to complete the half done job of getting the engine running, after the original installer got injured.
The people are really great people, friends of friends kind of thing. I'm doing all the work gratis, and no good deed goes unpunished.
My Grandpa used to say, "Give till it hurts, then give a little bit more". That is applicable here. Friggin mess.
Oh to answer your question, Rotella 15-40, with a bottle of Lucas zinc additive.
tim ziegler
New Member
You could use this motor with some ambition. As above ideas stated, it would have to totally be disasembled and the block boiled cuz the oil gallery's in that block would be like that filter. Its posible to do if you like the car. By inspectging everything you would find the culprit. I wonder how long the motor ran since rebuild if it was rebuilt. Main/rod bearing clearance is a question mark
tim ziegler
New Member
Your a good man 65
SuperDave
Member
I just recently rebuilt my 400 in my 73 Newport. Still breaking it in. According to my research, consulting the machine shop that tooled my block & crank, and the camshaft break-in instructions, I ran ZDDP additive with 10W40 oil, I installed a magnetic ring onto the bottom of my oil filter(Home Depot) as well as a magnetic drain plug. Just to be safe, of course. Cam Break-in was high idle of 2000 RPM for 20 minutes. Reason for high idling is to heat up and temper the cam & lifters.
For the break-in period (500 miles), I've installed an Edelbrock 1406 carb (600 CFM) and dialed in my MSD Street Fire rev limiter at 5200 RPM. That is to insure that if & when I do get on it, I don't overrev it and hurt it. My intention is to replace the carb with a Eddy 1407/750 CFM carb after break-in and bump the rev limiter to 5500. When I swap out the carb, the oil & filter will be changed, and filter cut open and examined. It is expected to find some shavings and metal dust, that's normal. How much remains to be seen. The chunks you show do look unusual. You say they aren't magnetic, so it could be leftover machine chunks from the grinding stones.
You didn't say if you pulled the valve covers to see if the rockers were receiving oil. One of the things I did during assembly was to preoil the motor by spinning the distributor with a drill and slowly hand cranking the crank until I saw oil from every rocker. I hope the aluminum rockers installed on your project weren't the Speedmaster brand roller rockers. When I was selecting parts, I read the reviews for them, they don't like street motors, they fail early. So I opted for the stainless roller versions. Aluminum might be cool for racing applications where the motor gets rebuilt and inspected between runs, but in a street motor that rarely sees 6000 RPM, the lightweight assembly isn't needed, nor the softer material. For a high reving motor, you do want a lightweight valve train to avert valve floating and dropping a valve. In a street motor that is overkill. If you suspect the non-magnetic slivers in the oil filter ARE aluminum, pop off a valve cover and check to see if oil is reaching all the rockers.
Just my two cents.
For the break-in period (500 miles), I've installed an Edelbrock 1406 carb (600 CFM) and dialed in my MSD Street Fire rev limiter at 5200 RPM. That is to insure that if & when I do get on it, I don't overrev it and hurt it. My intention is to replace the carb with a Eddy 1407/750 CFM carb after break-in and bump the rev limiter to 5500. When I swap out the carb, the oil & filter will be changed, and filter cut open and examined. It is expected to find some shavings and metal dust, that's normal. How much remains to be seen. The chunks you show do look unusual. You say they aren't magnetic, so it could be leftover machine chunks from the grinding stones.
You didn't say if you pulled the valve covers to see if the rockers were receiving oil. One of the things I did during assembly was to preoil the motor by spinning the distributor with a drill and slowly hand cranking the crank until I saw oil from every rocker. I hope the aluminum rockers installed on your project weren't the Speedmaster brand roller rockers. When I was selecting parts, I read the reviews for them, they don't like street motors, they fail early. So I opted for the stainless roller versions. Aluminum might be cool for racing applications where the motor gets rebuilt and inspected between runs, but in a street motor that rarely sees 6000 RPM, the lightweight assembly isn't needed, nor the softer material. For a high reving motor, you do want a lightweight valve train to avert valve floating and dropping a valve. In a street motor that is overkill. If you suspect the non-magnetic slivers in the oil filter ARE aluminum, pop off a valve cover and check to see if oil is reaching all the rockers.
Just my two cents.
MoPar Maniac
Well-Known Member
Cam Break-in was high idle of 2000 RPM for 20 minutes. Reason for high idling is to heat up and temper the cam & lifters.
Huh? The factory doesn't heat up and temper their materials?
Huh? The factory doesn't heat up and temper their materials?
Jeremiah
Member
When you have the valve cover off check for rocker arm to valve spring retainer clearance. That would make metal similar to what you are seeing. Otherwise something terrible is happening with the thrust bearing. Check the crank movement fore/aft. Did you install the transmission/tourqe converter or is that a mystery also?
tim ziegler
New Member
I bought a set of used aluminum L-82 valve covers for a 77 Vet I had at one time. The one valve cover had galling in 8 spots that would have caused aluminum fragments but I have no idea what was the problem that caused the gaulling
65Fury440
Senior Member
Everything on top of the heads looks clean, plenty of clearance side to side on rockers and to retainers.
Engine/trans were bolted together when it came to me.
Wouldn't thrust bearing material be magnetic?
65Fury440
Senior Member
There is no rocker to VC interference I can see.
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
Not until it was really shot. It's a lead and copper overlay like the mains and rods.
SuperDave
Member
They do, but only to a certain point. They are flame tempered, not friction tempered. Flat lifter cams will "marry" each lobe to the lifter that was installed on it during break-in and thru out the engine's lifetime. Once they are broken in, if you ever pull the engine apart for service, each lifter MUST be put back exactly where it was before, or else it'll eat the cam. Same with pistons and bearings, you can't swap out internals from one location to another without inviting damage because the parts are "married" to each other thru friction.
The break in process of a flat lifter cam is crucial to the lifespan of the motor. Spin it too fast and it'll wear too much, leading to excessive clearance in valve lash. (Because stock big blocks weren't equipped with adjustable valve train). If it doesn't spin fast enough, the lifters may not properly seat in their respective bores, again leading to excessive wear later down the road.
This is the collective wisdom of hundreds of engine builders and engineers through trial & error across thousands, if not millions of motors. Back in the day when these were built, they didn't have computer guided CNC machining, tolerances were a bit looser due to casting shifting during the manufacturing process. Today's modern roller valve trains are more precise and more forgiving. Which is why it isn't uncommon to see a car with 400,000 miles showing on the odometer while the motor has never even had the valve covers removed. Try that with an engine built 50 years ago with old school technology!
70bigblockdodge
Old Man with a Hat
Honestly Doug I would run it, especially if it does not make noise.
