Musclecarbrakes.com - are they still having supply issues?

[edbods]

I know one or two members here bought some brake shoes from there back in 2020/21, but they were apparently having supply issues. Probably been fixed by now but anyone bought anything from them recently?
Do they also have an email address? Trying to see if they can ship to Australia but they only have a phone number which isn't exactly ideal due to time zones and all that.

 

[Ross Wooldridge]

Why go anywhere else for brake shoes now other than Craig @mobileparts ?

 

[edbods]

Because I didn't even know Craig existed up until your post, and muscle car brakes is - as far as I know - the only supplier of brake shoes that have really good fade resistance. I'm going to be driving up and down mountains fairly hard so I definitely would like some brakes that have excellent fade resistance (short of a wilwood front disc conversion).

 

[Ross Wooldridge]

Forgive me and my tone, which may have seemed rude. My apologies. From your original post, I didn't realise you're a new member here.

i'm happy to tell you of Craig. He is a respected authority and vendor of correct brake parts as well as many other driveline/steering/suspension parts. You can message him here from this site - his handle is @mobileparts

You'll be going to the right person.

 

[mobileparts]

Canadiens are seldom rude…..
^^^ Ross ^^^ is one of the nicest guys on this planet !!! He would never be rude to anyone , ever …..

Welcome aboard to a Great site —- glad to have you aboard….

Those muscle car brakes are like $ 200 something a set —- and will rip up brake drums to smithereens…..

I have *** N.O.S. *** Asbestos *** Brake Shoes —- which are the softest , smooooooothest braking system known to mankind, however Australia and New Zealand have some serious import laws, and they have been denying Asbestos from even entering their countries…. You would need to look into that, first….

( It is kind of stupid —- there is a minuscule amount of asbestos dust created from braking —- but if your government says “NO”, I suppose they are allowed to “ ban “ it….. )

Cheers, Craig…..

 

[Ross Wooldridge]

Oh, I can be rude, believe me!

By the way Craig, Canadiens are a hockey team... Canadians are residents of Canada.


And yes, @edbods!

 

[CBODY67]

From our experiences, asbestos dust is more than just a tiny amount. Its presence in the drum and on the backing plate CAN affect brake performance. That is something I had never considered until our service station guy, who had worked at the local Chrysler dealership, suggested we get the drums blown-out with compressed air. Next time we went to the dealership for service, we asked if they could do that. ONE drum put a visible dust cloud into the 6-bay service dept. I could smell and taste it. I had no idea there would be so much! BUT, afterward, the "power brake caution" was needed until we got used to the feel again. This was in the later 1960s. Only did that one other time, years later, and then started to use water to do it, in the driveway. So, yes, asbestos dust does exist.

When TxDon discovered Muscle Car Brakes, I was interested . . . until I saw their prices. Yikes! Over $400.00 USD for brake shoes is more than I would desire to spend. For brake shoes with a different lining material that might actually be from a HD Truck application, possibly. If we could see the "side code" on the linings themselves, many mysteries might be solved!

There used to be brake lining tests done by a major car magazine back in the more-middle-earlier 1960s. Many fade and durability tests (in some cases, fade testing was also durability testing). One lining which seemed to normally come out on top was "VelveTouch" linings. By this point in time, they have probably been bought out and re-sold many times. BUT some companies currently offer "Police and Taxi" linings, which might well get you the fade resistance you might desire, or close to it. Raybestos is one brand, I believe? Using a recent formulation with more metallic might be a better solution for your more demanding operational orientations, I suspect. In addition to asbestos, USA formulations have also stopped using copper in their frictional formulations, too.

The KEY is finding a company that has linings for drum brake applications, but as Chrysler Corp brake shoes were usually the same part numbers, whether on the front or the back, the later disc/drum system rear shoes might be of interest. Especially as they could go up to 3.0" in width, as the front shoes could. What MCB offered was for the 1967 GTX which had 11x3 on the front and 11x2.5 on the rear. Although some Chrysler models had 11x2.75, later. So, some finagling might be needed.

I know that we had asbestos linings for decades and they were "easy on the drums/rotors", which can be important as availability of such becomes tighter with every progressing year. Only thing is that with universal driver training back then, usually in summer school, students were taught about brake performance and hilly/mountainous areas. How to not put heat into the brakes by using a lower transmission gear so "engine braking" could assist keeping the vehicle speed under control. PLUS how to handle emergency situations when brake fade was unexpected or not planned for. Now that USA driver education is now toward "parent instructors" and online, I suspect those finer points have been lost. Trending more toward "what might be encountered in one's locale". To their credit, almost everything now has 4-whl disc brakes and ABS.

The advantage of Wilwood is their longevity in the brake business. Personally, I consider any non-factory disc brake conversion to be less robust than any OEM system, per se, but even then, improvements over stock can be realized. Their longevity gives them an advantage as they are still a good ways from the time when they will discontinue items due to "low sales", I suspect. Unlike OEMs and major aftermarket brands of brake products. The other thing is that several aftermarket disc brake kits have been around for Chrysler products for the REAR, for a while. Four-wheel power disc brakes, plus some suspension upgrades, might be fun.

A key thing is to get a system that will use a "factory brake booster", rather than an aftermarket item. Factory units can be rebuilt and are more robust than anything aftermarket. An upgrade would be to adapt a HydroBoost system, running off of the power steering pump. These OEM systems always impressed me with their FIRM pedal feel and performance. Easy to modulate pedal pressure with than a vacuum unit. Their main problem is plumbing the lines to and from the booster from the power steering pump, which can occupy precious underhood real estate. A bit pricey, though.

The reason the "side codes" on the frictions are important is the numeric part identifies the origin of the lining and its composition (for USFederal tracking purposes) and the latter letter suffix indicates its performance in Federal US testing. First letter is for "cold" performance and the second letter is for "hot" performance. Higher letters indicate better performance. Google "brake lining side codes" for a better explanation. Those codes have been around for ages, just we did not really know how to decode them. Part of US FMVSS standards, just like brake fluid.

Several things to consider,
CBODY67

 

[Aquaman]

As a review, I met Craig @ Mobile parts last week. My son and I took a trip to Long Island from The Finger Lakes (The OTHER New York) to pick up all new front end components and brakes.

Craig is a really nice guy and we enjoyed meeting him and BS-ing quite a bit. He has a ton of stuff and is a part encyclopedia. I hope to run into him again in the future and recommend him.

 

[edbods]

Forgive me and my tone, which may have seemed rude. My apologies. From your original post, I didn't realise you're a new member here.

i'm happy to tell you of Craig. He is a respected authority and vendor of correct brake parts as well as many other driveline/steering/suspension parts. You can message him here from this site - his handle is @mobileparts

You'll be going to the right person.

All good, I just had no idea who Craig was but did a bit of googling and learned about the major issues some cops gave him back in 2022. as for being rude don't stress; I don't really get mad at things anymore, life's too short for that. I just laugh and move on.

Those muscle car brakes shoes do seem a lot more expensive for performance (race?) pads although people do say great things about them. On my 89 toyota cressida I bought a set of Dixcel "z type" pads which are their street + track pad, just the front + rear pads alone were about 230 USD not including shipping from Japan. But their performance was more than worth it; I could slam the brakes and trail brake all day and not even think about fade at all. They made a lot of dust, but it was nothing a pressure washer couldn't deal with. I bought a set of their plain rotors which drove the total price up even more, and had them cryotreated so they'd last a really long time.

@mobileparts appreciate the info, yeah our country has a hate boner for asbestos, but it's probably one of the few times our government does something that's actually sensible. Not sure if you've heard about the whole James Hardie legal kerfuffle down here, but for decades the company has been trying to weasel out of paying compensation to victims affected by mesothelioma from installing their asbestos products. Breathing in a small amount of the stuff once or twice won't be the end of you, but regular exposure will definitely get you.

In any case, after considering this, I may look into the wilwood front disc conversion. I'm definitely interested in their polymatrix A compound, seems good for both the street and track even though they say it isn't (probably just the noise).

 

[Big_John]

I know one or two members here bought some brake shoes from there back in 2020/21, but they were apparently having supply issues. Probably been fixed by now but anyone bought anything from them recently?
Do they also have an email address? Trying to see if they can ship to Australia but they only have a phone number which isn't exactly ideal due to time zones and all that.

Another thought is to have your old shoes (or a core) relined. I've never used one of the services, but there's places that reline clutches that also do brakes.

I've never done business with these guys, but here's a shop. Brake | PBS Brake & Supply Corp. | Syracuse

You could probably get somebody here to come up with cores and save that part of the shipping, but I'll bet if you look around, there's someone in Australia doing the same.

 

[USSMOPAR]

Craig is very good at what he does, however he is incorrect telling us all
"Those muscle car brakes are like $ 200 something a set —- and will rip up brake drums to smithereens"…..I wish he would listen to those of us that know about friction linings as that statement is an old wives tale. Craig - you should take no offense to my contribution here!

I have done many lining and pad upgrades to modern friction material on old mopars and gm products. I have run many of the materials including the best materials ever - "velvetouch". No drums or rotors on normally driven cars were ever chewed up in the process; however....the cars that ran many hot laps on road courses at very high speeds 120-150 mph did show wear on the rotors and drums from the more aggressive materials as a reasonable person would expect. I have a car in the shop right now with visible wear on the front rotors - the car spent 4 hard days on the road course with no failures. Car has 4 wheel disc brakes with the Large mopar rotors/ wilwood calipers with aftermarket pads on front and rear.

Other cars were run with the large rotors, cop car pads, other pads like carbon metallic etc with several flavors of rear shoes and again the pads wore but left little evidence of anything being chewed up. Yes the more aggressive lining will wear the drum faster than oem, so what! Chrysler made metallic linings and pads for the cop cars btw and it was an option when ordering a cop car type auto.

As far as getting the proper linings to you down under contact this business. He will help you and you will find his expertise to be incredible and the cost reasonable per axle set before shipping.

OP from down under - what you will get for your money is a drum brake car that STOPS with hot brakes without the dreaded asbestos lining fade and soon to crack linings. PM me if you want some personal tech support
in the meantime

Clutch Brake Friction Specialists - Rochester Clutch & Brake - Rochester Clutch + Brake Co

www.rochesterclutch.com

 

[Big_John]

Craig is very good at what he does, however he is incorrect telling us all
"Those muscle car brakes are like $ 200 something a set —- and will rip up brake drums to smithereens"…..I wish he would listen to those of us that know about friction linings as that statement is an old wives tale. Craig - you should take no offense to my contribution here!

I have done many lining and pad upgrades to modern friction material on old mopars and gm products. I have run many of the materials including the best materials ever - "velvetouch". No drums or rotors on normally driven cars were ever chewed up in the process; however....the cars that ran many hot laps on road courses at very high speeds 120-150 mph did show wear on the rotors and drums from the more aggressive materials as a reasonable person would expect. I have a car in the shop right now with visible wear on the front rotors - the car spent 4 hard days on the road course with no failures. Car has 4 wheel disc brakes with the Large mopar rotors/ wilwood calipers with aftermarket pads on front and rear.

Other cars were run with the large rotors, cop car pads, other pads like carbon metallic etc with several flavors of rear shoes and again the pads wore but left little evidence of anything being chewed up. Yes the more aggressive lining will wear the drum faster than oem, so what! Chrysler made metallic linings and pads for the cop cars btw and it was an option when ordering a cop car type auto.

As far as getting the proper linings to you down under contact this business. He will help you and you will find his expertise to be incredible and the cost reasonable per axle set before shipping.

OP from down under - what you will get for your money is a drum brake car that STOPS with hot brakes without the dreaded asbestos lining fade and soon to crack linings. PM me if you want some personal tech support
in the meantime

http://[URL]https://www.rochesterclutch.com/

[/URL]

Serious question..... Do they do the brake bonding in house? The reason I ask is on this page, SERVICES | PBS Brake And Supply , these guys are claiming they are the only ones in the Northeast doing brake bonding "in house". Since they are only about 75 miles away in Victor, NY I wonder if they are sending the shoes to PBS in Syracuse or are the guys at PBS making some sort of claim that isn't quite true.

Reason I ask is PBS is less than a half hour from me... Rochester Clutch and Brake is more like an hour and a half. I need a drum turned and I was going to take it to PBS... I had some work done by them many years ago when they were a little shop and it was all good. If they are doing the work for Rochester Clutch and Brake, it would make sense for me (just for me) to use them to reline brake shoes.

 

[CBODY67]

In many of the late 1960s Chrysler parts books I saw locally, there was a "blue page" in the front of the book about where to get brake frictions for the law enforcement vehicles they might deal with. The dealers were instructed to call a brake shop in Amarillo, TX and to ask for particular part numbers. Then the items would be shipped to them and their Chrysler parts accounts would be charged, just like a normal part they might order from Chrysler Parts.

At the time, I wondered why the "Mighty Chrysler" would be getting brake linings from a regional rebuilder? I never did investigate that rebuilder, but considering their proximity to Route 66/I-40, they could well have been using some friction material common in HD diesel trucks. Who knew, back then.

In some older posts on the original Allpar.com, there were some accounts from "Curtis Redgap" on the later-1950s California police car tests. Chrysler was putting some high-metallic brake shoes on their police-spec Dodges. The test drivers noted the cars were stopping much better than anybody else's police-spec cars did, so they ran the tests a second time, brakes glowing, with continued outstanding results. So much for Buick's claim of "Biggest Brakes", back then.

In those earlier times, "metallic brakes" were known not to work until they got hot, which could compromise their performance in cold weather for normal drivers. The 1961 Chevy SS cars came with factory metallic linings, but due to the heat needed, drag racers could not stage their cars, so they put on normal linings so they could. Brake frictions have come a LONG way since then! Which is good.

Seems like the full-metallic, segmented brake linings were termed "sintered metallic" linings?

I do recall that "turning" brake drums was common enough that a local machine shop had a mechanism to do just that. In the earlier 1960s, before "brakes with metallic" were common. Much less the ceramic-hybrid frictions.

LOTS of choices, chose wisely for your application.
CBODY67

 

[edbods]

Thanks heaps USSMopar and everyone else that has replied so far, somehow I forgot to mention what model it was for; a 67 dodge phoenix, which was pretty much a RHD plymouth fury albeit with a polara dashboard and gauges. This one I scored has the 383 in it. I was initially thinking of manual swapping it with a TKX, but decided to just see how the 727 goes for the time being. Never owned anything american, nor anything this old as I've always been a toyota guy, but definitely curious to see what makes these things tick, as well as having fun with them.
At the moment I can only assume that these would've used the same brakes as the 67 furys with the 383, but will have to see what the shoe sizes are.

 

[mobileparts]

This ^^^ uss Mopar ^^^ only shows up from the left coast to insert his / her .02 cents on this forum, to insert his anti - mesothelioma campaign....

He / she must have had a relative or friend have issues with the disease.... that is in large quantities, of course, once again......

It is NOT going to be a Death sentence with Front & Rear Brake Shoes in a Pleasure Cruising Automobile.... Let's be REAL, now.....

This ^^^ uss Mopar ^^^ should actually move to Australia or New Zealand and become part of the government agencies ........
But for now, we all just roll our eyes in disdain, when he continues his / her soliloquy.... Oy Vey.......

 

[mobileparts]

^^^ edbods ^^^ ,
The way it --- usually --- works , is the Heavy Duty Braking System received :
11 " x 3 " Front Brake Shoes and 11 " x 2 1 / 2 " Rear Brake Shoes....

The Light Duty Braking System received :
11 " x 2 3 / 4 " Front Brake Shoes and 11 " x 2 " Rear Brake Shoes......

You, honestly, need to check a Front & a Rear, because, any combination is possible.....
" Never say Never " with Mopar .......

 

[CBODY67]

@mobileparts, I fully understand your desire to sell asbestos brake frictions, as that is your business. Still, asbestos frictions are NOT the best linings for all applications. On one of my daily cars, I have seen no real detriment to using semi-metallic pads due to wear. Rotors still wear, which can be more a function of the softness of the metal of some rotors than the friction material they work with. Wear can also be a function of how "well-sized" or "possibly under-sized" the brake system might be. KEY thing . . . if no brake pulsations exist, don't machine any frictional surface.

@USSMOPAR is obviously outside of "stock" performance applications AND fully understands how many more advances in frictional formulations have been made in recent decades. NOT to forget that with Interstate speeds being exceeded as they seem to be, constantly, the BEST braking performance needs to be available. Even if creeping in 10mph "parking lots" at rush hour traffic, where fade resistance might become an issue, too. Consider how helpless one might feel if the brake pedal is on the floor and the car keeps going forward! Of course, the best plan of action would be to use an alternative route, but those do not always exist or can be gotten to.

Possibly not unlike the owner of Dynamic Friction Co. who is a road racer and has been doing frictional formulations for years. He has some YouTube videos demonstrating how much better his linings are than even recent OEM linings.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

 

[mobileparts]

Actually, " CBODY67 " ,
Selling *** N.O.S. *** Asbestos *** Brake Shoes and Brake Pads is becoming less and less of my " business " because with 31 years of the anti - Asbestos Laws,
I am already running out of many , many numbers...... Nothing Great lasts forever, when it is now 31 years of N O manufacturing.....

I have simply been trying to provide what Intelligent people want.... I don't have to force it on anyone --- THEY ASK FOR IT , from me.....

 

[edbods]

Thought I'd update this, after much lurking in older forum threads, I'm either going to go with the Wilwood kit, or the ECI kit, but I'm really leaning towards the latter because it has a wonderful instruction sheet that lists the parts used, so in the future I or the next owner can replace parts as needed. Another bonus is that (as far as I can tell) the bolt pattern of the ECI hubs will allow the 15" police wheels to fit without issue, which I also really want to get a set of because I just think they look slick, especially with a dog dish cap. The ECI kit also uses one piece rotors which are also just off the shelf GM parts (hellooo rockauto)
The only drawback is that it doesn't come with brake hoses; while I'd prefer an off the shelf part for ease of maintenance, at least hydraulic fitting shops are everywhere and custom hoses can be made.

 

[CBODY67]

Thanks for that information and links! I know everybody normally thinks of Wilwood, but your ECI alternative looks to be a great alternative! A neat catalog and website!

Keep us posted on the install, please.

CBODY67