Jon O.
Well-Known Member
I dont plan on going anywhere until its ok.
My 1972 Newport: a true survivor car
- Thread starter Jon O.
- Start date
Jon O.
Well-Known Member
Its been a wild ride trying to get the tank up to par to return home. Fixed the brakes. A wheel cylinder had slowly started leaking more and more. At first it was undetectable.
I was getting vibration on the highway. One of the universal joints had frozen solid on the way here. Got both of them replaced.
Now the brakes got so hot on the way here that the grease was cooked out of the bearings, and one is partially ground into a fine powder. So now i get to replace it. (AGAIN)
Lastly a valve cover is leaking badly, a simple fix.
I was getting vibration on the highway. One of the universal joints had frozen solid on the way here. Got both of them replaced.
Now the brakes got so hot on the way here that the grease was cooked out of the bearings, and one is partially ground into a fine powder. So now i get to replace it. (AGAIN)
Lastly a valve cover is leaking badly, a simple fix.
Jon O.
Well-Known Member
Since September all of those issues have long since been resolved. I replaced driver's side rear wheel cylinder. Replaced my Chinese rear bearings with Timken. Rotated tires, replaced universal joints. Fixed the valve cover leak. Just yesterday I tore apart both front wheels and replaced the front bearings with Timken, and put on new brake pads. The pedal is much higher now.
On a second note, I am now tying to tackle an issue with spark not being hot enough. She has steadily been running rougher, and I can smell the gasoline especially when cold. I ordered factory original style spark plug wires (Mine are in poor shape). I wanted an opinion on spark plugs. I have heard to use Champion J-11y. There are multiple sets on ebay for sale. Are there plugs that run hotter spark, or are better than these? My ignition coil is older than dirt, should I replace it? What else should I replace for reliability's sake?
Ive also replaced points and have had one hell of a time finding a working condenser. Nobody has found one of quality other than NOS?
On a second note, I am now tying to tackle an issue with spark not being hot enough. She has steadily been running rougher, and I can smell the gasoline especially when cold. I ordered factory original style spark plug wires (Mine are in poor shape). I wanted an opinion on spark plugs. I have heard to use Champion J-11y. There are multiple sets on ebay for sale. Are there plugs that run hotter spark, or are better than these? My ignition coil is older than dirt, should I replace it? What else should I replace for reliability's sake?
Ive also replaced points and have had one hell of a time finding a working condenser. Nobody has found one of quality other than NOS?
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
You're shaking the wrong tree looking for apples.
Spark plugs are one of the last things that is the problem in your case.
Let's start with you carburetor which needs to be rebuilt or repaired.
Spark plugs are one of the last things that is the problem in your case.
Let's start with you carburetor which needs to be rebuilt or repaired.
Jon O.
Well-Known Member
I trust your opinion more than most on this site, but are you sure? The carburetor was rebuilt a year and a half ago, new brass float and all.
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
In all honesty, I troubleshoot by starting with a complete major (what we called it back then) tuneup to see the results and then start diagnosing.
We don't know what we have and what we're working with.
Don't be led astray from things people picked out of a bucket on what they did 17 years ago on a '65 Dart.
Similar experience with Medina. A full tuneup by @71Polara383 and she ran much better. A carb rebuild by @Dana and we were talking. Go with @commando1 ’s recommendation.
Jon O.
Well-Known Member
Today I replaced the condenser with a new old stock replacement. also, reproduction of original spark plug wires, new old stock Champion spark plugs, new ignition coil, gapped points again, set timing, and cut two sets of original Chrysler logo keys. She is back to running like a top! Not long ago I also replaced the cap and rotor.
Jon O.
Well-Known Member
Yesterday had decent weather for a change. Changed oil, woke her up and went on a drive. I am currently trying to make the highway experience nicer. I had tires balanced and rotated. At any highway speed the driver's door vibrates and wind whistles from the old door seals. I took a long strip of rubber to both the driver's and passenger door and put it behind the entire length of the door seal. Doors now close with a hefty thud and no more wind whistling on the highway. The rear door seals are in fine shape so I left them alone.
On the highway, no vibration until it is above 80. I seldom go that fast, so i'm not worried about anything above that. With the door seals "fixed" it is so much quieter.
The hood and trunk lid were starting to dull, so I washed, clayed, and also hydrated the paint with Meguiar's #7. After that I buffed and buffed and waxed, and buffed again and waxed again. Nice and smooth, with a high gloss shine!
There is nothing like an old car showing you love back when you invest your sweat and blood into keeping it in top shape.
On the highway, no vibration until it is above 80. I seldom go that fast, so i'm not worried about anything above that. With the door seals "fixed" it is so much quieter.
The hood and trunk lid were starting to dull, so I washed, clayed, and also hydrated the paint with Meguiar's #7. After that I buffed and buffed and waxed, and buffed again and waxed again. Nice and smooth, with a high gloss shine!
There is nothing like an old car showing you love back when you invest your sweat and blood into keeping it in top shape.
Jon O.
Well-Known Member
Unfortunate turn of events today. Rod knock (or some other knocking) kicked in about 2 blocks from home. Immediately stopped and checked oil- it had the right amount. Carefully creeped back home. No miracle cure for this, I think this means rebuild. I'm scared to even start the old girl again.
live4theking
Old Man with a Hat
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That stinks. Do you have any idea what kind of oil pressure you've got.
MacLebaron
Well-Known Member
Oh man, I am sorry to hear that. Hopefully it will be something else.
How many miles on the car/motor? There are different "knocks" between a rod and main bearing. OR might it be higher up in the motor, like a chunk of carbon (possibly from accumulation on the backside of an intake valve) coming to reside on the top of a piston? But, considering the space between the top of the piston and the top of the open chamber head combustion chamber, it'd have to be a sizable chunk.
Might get a roll-back wrecker to transport it to a repair shop for an oil pressure check? Perhaps they can better isolate the noise and determine where it's coming from?
FWIW, our '72 Newport 4-dr sedan's lh front door would shake at some highway speeds. The door seal was sub-optimal, too. Considered trying to adjust it "in", but then the outer sheet metal would not align as good as it did. Looked like the weatherstrip shrunk with age, but when I got a new one, it didn't look much better (when I could still get one from Chrysler).
Even with low miles from new, a quick start from a stop sign or red light would turn on the "OIL" light for a few seconds. Never did knock or make any noise, but it may have gotten worse with age.
By the same token, my '70 Monaco 383 4bbl would do the same thing, if I hit some dirt while accelerating hard. When that happened, I'd put it in "N" and rev it a few times from idle until the light went out. No knocks even with 160K miles on it. Sometimes worse if the oil level was lower than "FULL". So I had to be careful of any rpm flares "with throttle".
Good luck. Hope it turns out to be something simple and easy to fix! Keep us posted.
CBODY67
Might get a roll-back wrecker to transport it to a repair shop for an oil pressure check? Perhaps they can better isolate the noise and determine where it's coming from?
FWIW, our '72 Newport 4-dr sedan's lh front door would shake at some highway speeds. The door seal was sub-optimal, too. Considered trying to adjust it "in", but then the outer sheet metal would not align as good as it did. Looked like the weatherstrip shrunk with age, but when I got a new one, it didn't look much better (when I could still get one from Chrysler).
Even with low miles from new, a quick start from a stop sign or red light would turn on the "OIL" light for a few seconds. Never did knock or make any noise, but it may have gotten worse with age.
By the same token, my '70 Monaco 383 4bbl would do the same thing, if I hit some dirt while accelerating hard. When that happened, I'd put it in "N" and rev it a few times from idle until the light went out. No knocks even with 160K miles on it. Sometimes worse if the oil level was lower than "FULL". So I had to be careful of any rpm flares "with throttle".
Good luck. Hope it turns out to be something simple and easy to fix! Keep us posted.
CBODY67
Last edited:
Jon O.
Well-Known Member
It will be a while before I can do diagnosis. It is an original, stock 80,000 mile engine. It has been steadily running rougher lately and getting low vacuum readings, so it may be time to rebuild anyhow. The oil pressure light comes on when the key is turned, but has never came on while the engine was running. I recently was messing with the choke, and a small screw got lost while I had the choke out. More than likely I just set it somewhere, but I was worried it may have fallen in. I have logged about 50 or more miles since that happened.
Thanks for the information. I somewhat doubt that you've got an internal engine issue for the items mentioned. Considering that the pistons are about .100" BELOW the deck surface of the block at TDC, combined with the open chamber heads, IF anything fell through the carb throttle plates, not very many places for it "to lodge" in the cylinder(s).
For the progressive issues mentioned, I'd first check ALL vacuum hoses and their connections. Then what they attach to for vacuum leaks. Also, move the heat lever about 1/2 to the "H" side and if things improve (as there is a switch on the level to cut off the a/c compressor, even when the "OFF" button is pushed. If you move the level slowly, you can feel and hear a faint click.
When you rebuilt the carb, you probably used the supplied base gasket for the carb, which is probably "thick cardboard". When I put a new Holley 2210 carb (same as is on the '72s, but was OEM for the '70 model, the one I got), I used the base gasket which Holley provided. Every so often, it would degrade a slight bit or the hold-down nuts would loosen. End result, the idle would degrade a small bit and until I tightened the nuts again, in a cross-wise torque pattern. After about the third time and seeing that it was going to be a somewhat continual thing, I went to the local Chrysler dealer and ordered a thick insulator OEM base gasket. That stopped that deal!
There CAN be another known issue with the Holley 2210-faamily carbs, but it will not usually make the car run rougher, except possibly when the choke is "on". Does the choke plate move freely ALL the way through its travel or might there be a slight interference with the carb housing, enough to make a shiny spot where it gets close to the venture area of the carb top?
The small screw that is missing, where was it removed from? Just curious.
Our experience with the 383s I've had (the '66 Newport first, then my '70 Monaco 383) is that at about the mileage you now have, #7 exhaust valve started to "burn". There are two things you can diagnose that with. One is with a compression tester (the screw-in type will work better than the "hold-in-the-hole" version! Just worry about the comparison with other cylinders, NOT the particular numbers obtained. The other, more "shade tree" method is to start the engine, let it run at idle, then take a shop towel and loosely place it over the end of the tail pipe. The flow should be generally smooth, BUT if there is a negative pulse, it'll suck the towel into the pipe, as you hold it around the endge of the pips, firmly, for that moment when the negative pressure pulse (from the piston with with the burnt valve moveing downward in when the exhaust valve is closed. If there is some in-out action from the normal pressure pulses anyway, when that bigger negative pressure pulse happens, it'll suck the firmly-held rag MORE than at other times. Might have to look closely, but it's there.
You can also use a vacuum gauge for this too, BUT my experiences with vacuum gauges has not been too good, other than checking levels. A burnt valve will also cause loss of power and a variable rougher idle, as you're losing power from one cylinder.
Hopefully, most of your mentioned issue will be taken care of with the carb hold-down nuts!
Keep us posted,
CBODY67
For the progressive issues mentioned, I'd first check ALL vacuum hoses and their connections. Then what they attach to for vacuum leaks. Also, move the heat lever about 1/2 to the "H" side and if things improve (as there is a switch on the level to cut off the a/c compressor, even when the "OFF" button is pushed. If you move the level slowly, you can feel and hear a faint click.
When you rebuilt the carb, you probably used the supplied base gasket for the carb, which is probably "thick cardboard". When I put a new Holley 2210 carb (same as is on the '72s, but was OEM for the '70 model, the one I got), I used the base gasket which Holley provided. Every so often, it would degrade a slight bit or the hold-down nuts would loosen. End result, the idle would degrade a small bit and until I tightened the nuts again, in a cross-wise torque pattern. After about the third time and seeing that it was going to be a somewhat continual thing, I went to the local Chrysler dealer and ordered a thick insulator OEM base gasket. That stopped that deal!
There CAN be another known issue with the Holley 2210-faamily carbs, but it will not usually make the car run rougher, except possibly when the choke is "on". Does the choke plate move freely ALL the way through its travel or might there be a slight interference with the carb housing, enough to make a shiny spot where it gets close to the venture area of the carb top?
The small screw that is missing, where was it removed from? Just curious.
Our experience with the 383s I've had (the '66 Newport first, then my '70 Monaco 383) is that at about the mileage you now have, #7 exhaust valve started to "burn". There are two things you can diagnose that with. One is with a compression tester (the screw-in type will work better than the "hold-in-the-hole" version! Just worry about the comparison with other cylinders, NOT the particular numbers obtained. The other, more "shade tree" method is to start the engine, let it run at idle, then take a shop towel and loosely place it over the end of the tail pipe. The flow should be generally smooth, BUT if there is a negative pulse, it'll suck the towel into the pipe, as you hold it around the endge of the pips, firmly, for that moment when the negative pressure pulse (from the piston with with the burnt valve moveing downward in when the exhaust valve is closed. If there is some in-out action from the normal pressure pulses anyway, when that bigger negative pressure pulse happens, it'll suck the firmly-held rag MORE than at other times. Might have to look closely, but it's there.
You can also use a vacuum gauge for this too, BUT my experiences with vacuum gauges has not been too good, other than checking levels. A burnt valve will also cause loss of power and a variable rougher idle, as you're losing power from one cylinder.
Hopefully, most of your mentioned issue will be taken care of with the carb hold-down nuts!
Keep us posted,
CBODY67
Jon O.
Well-Known Member
I have moved my recent post here because the subject has changed into a full rebuild. For those who have not seen my recent post:
Looking for advice on valves, lifters etc.
I am now doing a complete full rebuild per the advice of David Hill, and suggestions of a few others.
64,000 miles were put on the engine before it sat for many years. It's been driven 16,000 miles since it was woken back up in 2016. A total of 80,000 miles.
So far for the rebuild I have taken the heads to a machine shop to be completely redone to factory original. All new valves, springs, seals, hardened seats etc. I've done a lot of disassembly and definitely built a little muscle in the process. The engine has never been apart before. The gaskets all have the chrysler logo on them. The engine was built on October 7, 1971. This morning I got most of the rod bearings out. A few top halves will be removed when I get the crank out. All of them are stamped 10-71. The bearings all have scoring on them. I imagine a lot of the scoring occured when it was started after sitting. Some have worn through the top layer near the edge.
Looking for advice on valves, lifters etc.
I am now doing a complete full rebuild per the advice of David Hill, and suggestions of a few others.
64,000 miles were put on the engine before it sat for many years. It's been driven 16,000 miles since it was woken back up in 2016. A total of 80,000 miles.
So far for the rebuild I have taken the heads to a machine shop to be completely redone to factory original. All new valves, springs, seals, hardened seats etc. I've done a lot of disassembly and definitely built a little muscle in the process. The engine has never been apart before. The gaskets all have the chrysler logo on them. The engine was built on October 7, 1971. This morning I got most of the rod bearings out. A few top halves will be removed when I get the crank out. All of them are stamped 10-71. The bearings all have scoring on them. I imagine a lot of the scoring occured when it was started after sitting. Some have worn through the top layer near the edge.
Thanks for the update! One thing you might consider prior to start-up of your rebuilt engine is to get a "priming rod" so you can use a drill motor to turn the oil pump without the engine running. Putting real motor oil into all of the circuits in the process, augmenting any assembly lube used. This will NOT get past the need for the "fast idle" time immediately upon start-up, when oil slung from the crankshaft oils the cam lobes during the initial cam run-in time, though.
After the pre-lube operation, then you put the distributor back in, put fuel in the carb, get the carb and timing "ball-parked", and fire it off.
Enjoy!
CBODY67
After the pre-lube operation, then you put the distributor back in, put fuel in the carb, get the carb and timing "ball-parked", and fire it off.
Enjoy!
CBODY67
Jon O.
Well-Known Member
After a long time away, I am getting back into working on the car. I've had real trouble finding a machine shop that will work after covid. I kept "getting put on the list," waiting months, and getting excuses. I finally found what I hope is a competent shop, and I will be removing the block and taking it to them on Saturday. They will be hot tanking it, installing freeze plugs, boring the block, polishing the crankshaft, installing new crank, rod, and cam bearings, new pistons and rods, moly rings, and balancing. I have been told the return time depends on how hard it is for them to find bearings and pistons. Possibly up to 10 weeks for pistons. I will be sending the differential and brake booster to be rebuilt also. I had the heads rebuilt to factory new with hardened seats, and have had them back for a while. I have many parts on the way, and this will give me time to work on other things. I'll be working on brakes, and steering while I wait to get the engine back. Thank you all for your knowledge and experience. I wouldn't be able to save this car without a little help.
Jon O.
Well-Known Member
Update: I have bit the bullet and just decided to give this car anything it needs. However much that adds up to is just what it costs. It'll be nice getting it to a point where everything functions like it should. I am doing all the mechanical/ electrical and will get everything finished so it can be enjoyed for a while before moving onto cosmetic/body work. This week I have spent hours and hours scouring the internet for hard to find parts. Many parts have been sent out to be rebuilt/refabricated. Many NOS and brand new parts are on the way. The engine pull is on hold until pistons show up in the mail. When it comes back from the machine shop assembly will start. Until then, steering, a/c, heat, wiring harnesses, and brakes will be getting an overhaul. After the engine, by far the most expensive parts have been for heat and air conditioning. Evaporator, condenser, drier, compressor, expansion valve, and heater core should all be coming soon. Getting the heater box out from under the dash was interesting. After all the screws were out, it took an hour to separate the halves because someone used tar like gasket maker to seal the box up. Things on my list are: have the differential rebuilt, buy leaf springs, send out the brake booster, send torque converter to be rebuilt, and driveshaft balancing. I am still looking for NOS or close to front driver and passenger door seals, a fan shroud, and a factory original working am/fm radio. I'm happy progress is finally being made, and I will be on top of the world when the car can be enjoyed again.
patrick66
Old Man with a Hat
Looks like you have a busy Summer ahead!
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