New C-Body Spindles for Disc Brakes.

[Big_John]

it was a C body and it was I want to say a Scarebird set up.

IMHO, the Scarebird stuff is absolute crap. "Scare" is a good name.

I looked at some of their stuff for another car and was not impressed. Basically flame cut steel with nuts welded on. No sense of good engineering or common sense on some of the applications.

 

[CBODY67]

IF the factory OEM knuckles are of similar metal as the rear axle housing on "floating" rear axles on a 1-ton and heavier truck, there are some possibilities, but possibly expensive ones.

Back in the later '70s, we had several Chevy C-60 customers who had failures on the rear axle bearings on the rear axle. The threads for the adjusters were wasted, but we took the bare housing to an old-line machine shop. They re-welded the ends of the axles and then re-machined them, new threads cut and all. When done, it looked like nothing had been done, but I knew different. Finding a shop that does this for the HD truck vehicles might be the trick, though. Of course, using knuckles that were x-rayed/magnafluxed/Zyglowed to check for internal/external defects would be necessary, FIRST.

On some of the woodworking shows on PBS, they will take a wood plug and glue it into an existing hole, then when it's all cured, re-drill the holes with a different ctr-to-ctr dimension. Might something of this nature be done with the existing knuckles for the ball joint mounts?

I, too, prefer OEM-engineered items. In this case, though, perhaps a Wilwood system might be a better choice than something "unknown"? Or perhaps a hybrid OEM/Wilwood system? Using Wilwood for the wheel-brake items and OEM for the booster/master cylinder and needed valving?

To me, that video raises more questions than it answers.

CBODY67

 

[330dTA]

Would someone happen to know which brand the ”generic knuckle” is, that Ram Man shows in the video? More precise info?
I mean, if I bump into a parts store and ask for ” a generic knuckle” I might not get what I was looking for.

 

[Big_John]

Would someone happen to know which brand the ”generic knuckle” is, that Ram Man shows in the video? More precise info?
I mean, if I bump into a parts store and ask for ” a generic knuckle” I might not get what I was looking for.

These are parts he is selling. His "brand". I don't see them listed, so a call or email is probably needed.
Home

 

[330dTA]

Thanks, Big_John. That much I knew, though. Just figured someone might have some insight as to where Ram Man sourced those spindles. - I’m sure they are inexpensive, just as he states in the vid you posted. I’m also pretty sure they won’t be as inexpansive when he puts them on his web store. His disc brake set up goes for 12 hundred USD.

 

[ascari]

OK, let's for a moment be real about metallurgy and manufacturing: First off, metallurgy as a science and engineering discipline has advanced immensely since the -60s and -70s in all countries including our own. It's also a sad fact that since WWII the US steel industry has slowly but surely fallen behind countries like Germany and Japan in terms of quality and innovation. In specialty steels other producers like Spain and Sweden have been far ahead of us for many decades. The Japanese have been the world leaders in quality control since the -70s and we've been gradually adopting their methods. Engineering methods have advanced in leaps and bounds since the bigger-is-better school of engineering that was prevalent in Detroit when our cars were built, not the least thanks to things like finite element analysis. Also, in my work I've seen huge variability in the failure rates of automotive components made by the same company in different factories the challenge being to pinpoint the cause of the difference and fix it. My take away from all this is that as long as the forgings are well engineered, based on good quality steel of uniform specification and properly executed in the mill it doesn't really matter if they're made in the US or not or where the steel comes from.

Therefore as much as we all hate to admit it the good sh*t can be made anywhere as long as it's done right using the right materials. Also, the good sh*t usually isn't inexpensive, but sometimes it can be thanks to the advances I mentioned.

Before you kick me to death: I'm not at all saying that original is bad or anything like that, but I humbly suggest let's be open to the possibility that something new actually could be better than something old and even that in some cases something inexpensive could be better than something expensive. Those are my two cents. Now go ahead and kick me to death. I probably deserve it.

 

[CBODY67]

I will concur that the design of metallic items used to be "If it looks strong and substantial, it is". But as engineering analysis became much more refined, much of "the meat" could be eliminated and could result in something even stronger as a result. Add a few reinforcement bars or gussets and it's both lighter and stronger, with the same mix of metal.

Well-executed good designs, with great quality control of all processes, should work no matter where they are done. At least in theory. The OEM's problems include how to get the desired strength/cycle life from a cast part at the least cost. End result is that the projected failure rate will impact the cost of the item being made, one way or another. A big judgment call by those pricing out the vehicles for how much $$$$ it takes to get the vehicle to the end of the assembly line.

CBODY67

 

[BillGrissom]

Wayne Brown is kind of ummm... eccentric...

Looks like "The RAM Man". No personal experience, but I frequent the FABO forum too and he is often recommended there, like one of the few who can rebuild old brake boosters. I think he also offers a master cylinder like 1980's Dodge trucks, but with a custom 15/16"D bore (unless mixing up with another). Many on FABO rave about him.

Re risks of a forged spindle failing, I'm just a regular mechanical engineer not a metallurgist and just a few courses in materials, but generally forgings will distort first, like dough, rather than suddenly fracture. What would happen if a spindle suddenly failed? Judging from postings about failed control arms (mostly newer M-B with sheet-metal ones which rust from the inside and Tesla aluminum ones which crack off), usually that side drops to the ground and drags, but the driver can still steer with the other wheel, so usually just slowly stops in a controlled manner. These failures usually happen at low speeds when turning sharply like in parking lots, since that is when the max stresses occur on the front suspension and steering. I personally wouldn't worry much, plus other Mopars have been using this same basic part for years and some might even treat their cars like The Dukes of Hazzard (dirt-track racing and such).

 

[John Kirby]

69-72 disc cars are rapidly becoming unobtanium for their brake parts. I used a 72 Newport for the parts on my 66 New Yorker. That was 30+ years ago. Now it's a challenge to find rotors and calipers. Lower ball joints are very rare too. This may soon be the only option when it comes to disc brake repairs on cbodies. It would be great to be able to go to larger rotors for our cars. I do share concerns about product quality. I am going to wait and see what the track record on these turns out to be.

 

[Boiler_Gawd]

This is a game changer. More options and easier to source parts.

Hello Everybody , new to this site

trust me on this one, don't buy these spindles , they won't work , They are NOT a game changer, they are a scam
they are a modified E-body spindle, they has been weld- filled and re-bored for the correct c-body lower ball joint spacing

they are way to short in height for a C-body and you will never be able to adjust your camber period , you can't make up
2" in height , believe me , i found out the hard way , cost me a lot money , from a so -called expert in braking . Nothing he has sent me works
master cylinder that does not work , calipers where someone drilled out the bleeder screw and went to deep , taking out the sealing surface internally, and sending me modified centric rotors that were machined out to accept a A17 inner bearing etc. Has been a disaster period, don't trust this guy or company $4K later and i still don't have disc brakes on my car.... what more can i say... Buyer Beware....

 

[Big_John]

Hello Everybody , new to this site

trust me on this one, don't buy these spindles , they won't work , They are NOT a game changer, they are a scam
they are a modified E-body spindle, they has been weld- filled and re-bored for the correct c-body lower ball joint spacing

they are way to short in height for a C-body and you will never be able to adjust your camber period , you can't make up
2" in height , believe me , i found out the hard way , cost me a lot money , from a so -called expert in braking . Nothing he has sent me works
master cylinder that does not work , calipers where someone drilled out the bleeder screw and went to deep , taking out the sealing surface internally, and sending me modified centric rotors that were machined out to accept a A17 inner bearing etc. Has been a disaster period, don't trust this guy or company $4K later and i still don't disc brakes on my car.... what more can i say... Buyer Beware....

I have no skin in the game, as said, my car already has disc brakes and honestly, I've never bought anything from Wayne Brown and have nothing to do with his company.

So, after saying that, it's got me curious. Did you take some pictures to show the difference? Was this purchase just made recently? If you got screwed on this, we really need to know the facts and see the problems. Not doubting you at all, but really curious as to what happened.

Also, what car were you working on?

$4k is a lot to spend and even more to lose. I'm sure that we all don't want someone else to get taken.

 

[Boiler_Gawd]

I have no skin in the game, as said, my car already has disc brakes and honestly, I've never bought anything from Wayne Brown and have nothing to do with his company.

So, after saying that, it's got me curious. Did you take some pictures to show the difference? Was this purchase just made recently? If you got screwed on this, we really need to know the facts and see the problems. Not doubting you at all, but really curious as to what happened.

Also, what car were you working on?

$4k is a lot to spend and even more to lose. I'm sure that we all don't want someone else to get taken.

Hello

I have tonnes of pictures in my phone, just need to be able to get them from my phone to my desktop ,
I in-fact still have spindles...so anything you guys want to know... i can tell you everything. this was a absolute horror to deal with
its still in the hands of my credit card company , in-fact i think he is now trying to sell the system for 1600 $ now ...
with the couple of pictures i have included you can see the tooling marks , when they block welded and re-bored the hole...
I now have used C-body spindles , had to find caliper brackets , found the proper Centric Rotors that will fit the original pre-73 spindles

Now i am trying to source a brake booster and master cylinder that might work to give me enough boost to energize the disc's up front, as i know the
single diaphram booster is not adeqaute....

my car is a 1968 Monaco 500 Convertable

 

[Big_John]

Hello

I have tonnes of pictures in my phone, just need to be able to get them from my phone to my desktop ,
I in-fact still have spindles...so anything you guys want to know... i can tell you everything. this was a absolute horror to deal with
its still in the hands of my credit card company , in-fact i think he is now trying to sell the system for 1600 $ now ...
with the couple of pictures i have included you can see the tooling marks , when they block welded and re-bored the hole...
I now have used C-body spindles , had to find caliper brackets , found the proper Centric Rotors that will fit the original pre-73 spindles

Now i am trying to source a brake booster and master cylinder that might work to give me enough boost to energize the disc's up front, as i know the
single diaphram booster is not adeqaute....

my car is a 1968 Monaco 500 Convertable

View attachment 363382

View attachment 363383

Very good!

The welded and machined hole doesn't bother me much as long as it was done right, although it would be better to have drilled it correctly in the first place.

The spindle height does scare me though. That's screwing with suspension geometry.

I'd love to see a picture of these two spindles side by side.

 

[Boiler_Gawd]

Very good!

The welded and machined hole doesn't bother me much as long as it was done right, although it would be better to have drilled it correctly in the first place.

The spindle height does scare me though. That's screwing with suspension geometry.

I'd love to see a picture of these two spindles side by side.

Hi

there are lotsa of pictures , but here is one , i found when i had to present my case ,

I have lots on my phone but can't access them

 

[Boiler_Gawd]

Very good!

The welded and machined hole doesn't bother me much as long as it was done right, although it would be better to have drilled it correctly in the first place.

The spindle height does scare me though. That's screwing with suspension geometry.

I'd love to see a picture of these two spindles side by side.

Now let me see what I can do

Heres a few more , with so called new spindle and a proper c body spindles

 

[Big_John]

These two images may really be telling the tale.

 

[Boiler_Gawd]

View attachment 363399View attachment 363400

These two images may really be telling the tale.

One more telling tale is, the caliper bracket for the c-body spindle has a larger bolt spacing as well. So the one for the shiney new one will NOT fit the proper C-body spindle .....cause its a regular E-body spindle you can buy anywhere, and he just modifies it, but he forgot to take in account the height, (and the bigger inner bearing race, caliper braket spacing etc.) but the height is huge, you can't compensate for the massive negative camber you will get when your Spindle is 2" shorter give or take a little...

He made a good amount of money on these kits, but he knows his days are numbered on these, because the original spindles are almost impossible to find anymore, because the rotors , calipers, bearings, for you guys in the USA are quite easy to source......and cheap

the moral of the story is don't buy it period....

 

[Boiler_Gawd]

Here you go , the ram man spindles versus the proper c-body spindles, look at the height difference , and look at the caliper bracket bolt spacing , unbelievable that this moron is allowed to continue doing this

 

[Big_John]

View attachment 367312 Here you go , the ram man spindles versus the proper c-body spindles, look at the height difference , and look at the caliper bracket bolt spacing , unbelievable that this moron is allowed to continue doing this

That's incredible and I can't believe that was passed off as fitting a C body.

 

[Ripinator]

View attachment 367312 Here you go , the ram man spindles versus the proper c-body spindles, look at the height difference , and look at the caliper bracket bolt spacing , unbelievable that this moron is allowed to continue doing this

Holy Krap !!