PST vs Firm Feel Torsion Bars

[MONC440]

So I’m getting around to ordering some torsion bars for the Fury. For me cost is always a concern and FF bars list at $600 and PST are offered thru Kanter for $419. The FF bars go up to 1.19 and the PST are 1.12

I would like to hear first hand experiences, positive and negative, on both companies.

Thanks

 

[Big_John]

I think the question to ask yourself is if you really need them, especially if you are concerned about cost. Increasing front spring rate without increasing the rear spring rate gives you more understeer when you really push the car.

 

[66/440]

Firm Feel will recondition your original bars if you are concerned about originality.
If you are looking for a stiffer suspension I would choose FF. I recently purchased a rear sway bar kit from Kanter and what a POS. The original factory type mounts are far superior to what I received. The hardware is pure Chinesium and the brackets are not square. If that is any indication of quality I would stick with a known quantity and use bars from FF or a recondition of your original bar. With regard to bar dia. consider any weight reduction you may gain with aluminum intake, water pump, aluminum radiator or a Sanden ac compressor. Those will all add to improved handling without the need for a larger bar that will surely make the ride harsher.

 

[MoPar~Man]

Up until 1973, the vast vast majority of bars would have been .96, and even police 440 packages were "only" .98. Imperials (50" length) were 1.02 / 1.06. HD suspension option always seemed to be 1.02 / 1.06.

In 1972, Polara / Monaco went to 44" bars (?). Fury was always 44".

In 1975, Polara/Monaco/Grand Fury went back to 47" (?), diameters were 1, 1.04 and 1.06.

Never larger than 1.06. A lot of wagons were .94 during these years. Police were .98 for a lot of the early years, only going to 1.04 or 1.06 in / after 1974.

Make sure you've got the length correct for your car.

 

[MONC440]

Thanks for the quick responses. I little more info. My torsion bars are good for the original 383 car they were made for, however I added about 200 lbs to the front end when I installed the V10 ram engine and the adjusters are almost bottomed out to hold the weight. The car drives fine but with so much tension on the bars when i hit a bump (with Michigan roads that is every time I drive more than 50 feet) it has excessive rebound, not a big deal unless I hit a bump on a corner/sharp curve and it is unstable. It acts like my old drag car that we put smaller bars in so we could put more tension on bars to get more lift off the line.

The beast weighs in at just around 4200 with about 2300 up front. If I did my calculations properly I need a spring rate of around 230/in. The PST 1.12 bars are 220/in. so they should work. The spring rates of the FF 1.12 are also 220/in and the 1.18 are 280/in. I don't want it too stiff I just basically want it to ride/handle normal to the way it was stock.

 

[MONC440]

I recently purchased a rear sway bar kit from Kanter and what a POS.

Was the sway bar you got from Kanter from PST?

 

[MONC440]

Up until 1973, the vast vast majority of bars would have been .96, and even police 440 packages were "only" .98. Imperials (50" length) were 1.02 / 1.06. HD suspension option always seemed to be 1.02 / 1.06.

In 1972, Polara / Monaco went to 44" bars (?). Fury was always 44".

In 1975, Polara/Monaco/Grand Fury went back to 47" (?), diameters were 1, 1.04 and 1.06.

Never larger than 1.06. A lot of wagons were .94 during these years. Police were .98 for a lot of the early years, only going to 1.04 or 1.06 in / after 1974.

Make sure you've got the length correct for your car.

Thanks for the info. I found most of that info in my research also. Both PST and FF offer the 1.12 bars in 44" which is what I need for my Fury.

 

[polarus]

I used Firm Feel when I rebuilt the front end of my 72 Polara, great quality and they were willing to answer any questions I had.

 

[Big_John]

Thanks for the quick responses. I little more info. My torsion bars are good for the original 383 car they were made for, however I added about 200 lbs to the front end when I installed the V10 ram engine and the adjusters are almost bottomed out to hold the weight. The car drives fine but with so much tension on the bars when i hit a bump (with Michigan roads that is every time I drive more than 50 feet) it has excessive rebound, not a big deal unless I hit a bump on a corner/sharp curve and it is unstable. It acts like my old drag car that we put smaller bars in so we could put more tension on bars to get more lift off the line.

The beast weighs in at just around 4200 with about 2300 up front. If I did my calculations properly I need a spring rate of around 230/in. The PST 1.12 bars are 220/in. so they should work. The spring rates of the FF 1.12 are also 220/in and the 1.18 are 280/in. I don't want it too stiff I just basically want it to ride/handle normal to the way it was stock.

Ahh... Understandable now.

Most likely, neither place actually manufactures the torsion bars and dollars to donuts, the t-bars come from the same factory. I've been in a couple spring factories that did smaller stuff, and just seeing what they did, I'd say you have to have some specialized equipment to manufacture and test torsion bars.

 

[66/440]

Was the sway bar you got from Kanter from PST?

Brand not listed but here is the link

1963-1971 Chrysler 300, 1963-1973 Chrysler Imperial, 1963-1973 Chrysler New Yorker and others - Sway Bar - SWAY966 - Kanter Auto

Enhance your muscle car's handling with a 3/4" Rear Suspension Stabilizer Bar. This solid, non-adjustable sway bar minimizes body roll, ensuring superior tire grip during launches and improving overall stability. Perfect for classic muscle cars, it upgrades the outdated suspension systems with...

www.kanter.com

The primary draw back on most sway bars for our cars is the lack of adjustability especially for a modified car such as yours. It would be fairly easy to fabricate an adjustable link to allow for a Zero force at rest. You really don't want any initial preload until you have had a chance to drive it.
I intend to fab spring and chassis mounts and an adjustable link and only use the sway bar. I could purchase the FF bar as their mounts are superior, however I would still need to fab an adjustable link. If I can find a pair of the factory spring mounting plates I can easily replicate FF's kit for less. Finding the correct length/width bar shouldn't be too difficult if you are starting with nothing and the cost should be significantly less. Here is a photo of the factory spring mount you would need.

 

[66/440]

Up until 1973, the vast vast majority of bars would have been .96, and even police 440 packages were "only" .98. Imperials (50" length) were 1.02 / 1.06. HD suspension option always seemed to be 1.02 / 1.06.

In 1972, Polara / Monaco went to 44" bars (?). Fury was always 44".

In 1975, Polara/Monaco/Grand Fury went back to 47" (?), diameters were 1, 1.04 and 1.06.

Never larger than 1.06. A lot of wagons were .94 during these years. Police were .98 for a lot of the early years, only going to 1.04 or 1.06 in / after 1974.

Make sure you've got the length correct for your car.

My '66 Imperial bars are 48 5/8" long # 962 & 963

 

[MONC440]

Ahh... Understandable now.

Most likely, neither place actually manufactures the torsion bars and dollars to donuts, the t-bars come from the same factory. I've been in a couple spring factories that did smaller stuff, and just seeing what they did, I'd say you have to have some specialized equipment to manufacture and test torsion bars.

It would be interesting to find out where they are manufactured. They both say they are made in the USA. How many manufacturing plants are making t-bars in the US? I have read some about the hex ends being offset by FF and PST being in line. I can't remember if the factory bars were lined up of offset. I could see if the factory bars are offset the FF would be closer to factory.

 

[66/440]

FF says they can rebuild and re-index old bars. You could give them a call regarding which is correct.

 

[Big_John]

It would be interesting to find out where they are manufactured. They both say they are made in the USA. How many manufacturing plants are making t-bars in the US? I have read some about the hex ends being offset by FF and PST being in line. I can't remember if the factory bars were lined up of offset. I could see if the factory bars are offset the FF would be closer to factory.

There's probably not a lot of places.

 

[CBODY67]

As to "HD" suspension torsion bars . . . might check the FSM specs as factory a/c cars CAN have the same diameter bars as the "HD Suspension" cars. With the thicker stack of the HD rear springs (more leaves), the stock bars would need to be cranked up a bit so the rocker panels are still level with the road surface, with the thicker rear springs.

Helwig used to be the only company that built rear sway bars for C-bodies back in the 1970s. I believe they mounted rearward of the axle, rather than like the later factory rear bars did?

In the Police and Taxi section of the 1970 Chrysler Parts Manual, there is a factory parts listing for a rear sway bar and attach hardware for "LAPD" C-body cars. Anybody ever seen anything like that on the road or at shows?

A friend used a Gen I Cordoba rear sway bar on his 1966 Polara 2drht, back in the 1980s. Said he had to heat the arms a bit so they'd line up with the mounts at the rear springs.

CBODY67

 

[Fury1969WI]

Not exactly your scenario, but I put the FF 1.06 in my 69 Fury last winter and was very happy with the quality and customer service. (I'm guessing PST didn't offer that small of a diameter and now I almost wish/wonder "what if" I'd gone bigger. It's a nice cruiser upgrade tho').

I had 0.953 (my measurement) in that car, which I removed from a 1969 Fury 383 AC car so i think should have been 0.94 ... whatever. IIRC the 318 AC cars had bigger bars than the 383 car! Just food for thought).

ANYWAY!

The 1.06 are 13% over stock 383 and 8% over HD 440. I replaced my 318 with a 440 some years ago. The 1.06 stops the rebounding issue i was getting in some intersections and is only slightly firmer. We'll see how it behaves once i put on the 255/50R17 tires... will firm up steering even more I'm guessing (less sidewall flex).

 

[MONC440]

Not exactly your scenario, but I put the FF 1.06 in my 69 Fury last winter and was very happy with the quality and customer service. (I'm guessing PST didn't offer that small of a diameter and now I almost wish/wonder "what if" I'd gone bigger. It's a nice cruiser upgrade tho').

I had 0.953 (my measurement) in that car, which I removed from a 1969 Fury 383 AC car so i think should have been 0.94 ... whatever. IIRC the 318 AC cars had bigger bars than the 383 car! Just food for thought).

ANYWAY!

The 1.06 are 13% over stock 383 and 8% over HD 440. I replaced my 318 with a 440 some years ago. The 1.06 stops the rebounding issue i was getting in some intersections and is only slightly firmer. We'll see how it behaves once i put on the 255/50R17 tires... will firm up steering even more I'm guessing (less sidewall flex).

I have not measured mine but I assume mine are 0.94 because my car was a 383 A/C car. I'm going to measure them this week. Thanks for your feedback.

 

[fury fan]

I have FF 1.12s torsion bars and their 1-1/8 front swaybar (and the weight of a 440) in my 68 fury.
It rides somewhat firm, not objectionable, but I do sometimes wish I had gone a step smaller on the T-bars.

For a 70 Fury being heavier, and your V10, the 1.12s are probably a good choice.

In my 300L I have a 1" front swaybar from PST. A POS in comparison to the FF swaybar. Perhaps a POS in general.
I think a factory 15/16" bar with better bushings would outperform it.
This thread explains.
PST 1" front swaybar, on 65 Chrysler 300L